Falsifying GPA Forum

[1styearlateral]

I agree that it's not worth it. I'm simply speaking hypothetically in a world where grades matter to many firms even outside OCI. A low GPA could be the axe for a candidate where the employer is unfamiliar with the school's GPA distribution policy and/or used to seeing 3.5 GPAs with only cum laude distinction (e.g., I've seen Villanova grads with 3.7 GPAs with no law review...).

[Anonymous User]

I know someone who did this in undergrad. He increased his GPA by sending false unofficial transcripts. The employer actually never ended up asking for the real transcript.

Also, this was in his JR year as well so the chances of getting caught were extremely low. HR would technically have to go back to your junior year and recalculate your gpa. As long as it isn't more than a .1 or .2 jump, I doubt HR would go back and recalculate your GPA.

However, morally and ethically speaking..... I wouldn't do it. Even if there is a 1% risk, it is too big of a risk to take. This could get your suspended or worse, disbarred.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I agree that it's not worth it. I'm simply speaking hypothetically in a world where grades matter to many firms even outside OCI. A low GPA could be the axe for a candidate where the employer is unfamiliar with the school's GPA distribution policy and/or used to seeing 3.5 GPAs with only cum laude distinction (e.g., I've seen Villanova grads with 3.7 GPAs with no law review...).

Yeah, but if an employer cares, they're probably going to ask for a transcript, and I think more schools that rank put the ranking on the transcript than not. But since you raise it, sure, someone could probably falsify their rank and get away with it. I doubt it'd be significantly easier than falsifying your GPA, but maybe a little bit.

(As for the VN grads with 3.7s with no law review - I don't think that has anything to do with class rank. VN probably has a write-on, not grade-on law review. Getting onto my school's law review was 95% based on your write-on, not your grades, and I think it's mostly only the very top schools that have a purely grade-on LR. Or they simply didn't want to do LR, which happens, too.)

[gaddockteeg]

the previous anecdote with the UVA student was exactly that. Guy lied about GPA and got a summer job. then the firm asked the school directly for transcripts. guy broke in to (1) intercept the outgoing transcript, and (2) create a new one.

[axel.foley]

HTH: http://blogs.law.nyu.edu/docket/academi ... ine/25786/

[1styearlateral]

Falsifying or altering a transcript is career suicide. I'm talking about falsifying something that is likely unverifiable, but could assist a candidate in the context of a non-grade-inflating school. But I appreciate the candid responses nonetheless.

As for students opting out of LR... lol not sure who would do that. Must look super lazy to an employer. And most schools I know allow the top 10 percent to grade onto LR. Everyone else my write on.

[lavarman84]

My understanding is that if a school gives out ranks, that actually is published on your transcript (source: my school, which published that info on your transcript). So I don't think it's going to go well. (If the school doesn't give out ranks, generally students at that school aren't allowed to put their rank on a resume/cover letter at all.)

My school ranks, but it's not on the transcript (at least not the unofficial transcript I have access to).

[hannibalitis]

My understanding is that if a school gives out ranks, that actually is published on your transcript (source: my school, which published that info on your transcript). So I don't think it's going to go well. (If the school doesn't give out ranks, generally students at that school aren't allowed to put their rank on a resume/cover letter at all.)

My school ranks, but it's not on the transcript (at least not the unofficial transcript I have access to).

My school ranks as well, and it's not on the transcript. It's only available on request to students who are applying to clerkships.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Falsifying or altering a transcript is career suicide. I'm talking about falsifying something that is likely unverifiable, but could assist a candidate in the context of a non-grade-inflating school. But I appreciate the candid responses nonetheless.

As for students opting out of LR... lol not sure who would do that. Must look super lazy to an employer. And most schools I know allow the top 10 percent to grade onto LR. Everyone else my write on.

You're probably most familiar with T14 schools. Lots of other schools don't have an auto-grade-on.

And I know people who opted out of LR because they knew they would hate doing what they considered pointless work. Not sure why that should be considered lazy.

[A. Nony Mouse]

My understanding is that if a school gives out ranks, that actually is published on your transcript (source: my school, which published that info on your transcript). So I don't think it's going to go well. (If the school doesn't give out ranks, generally students at that school aren't allowed to put their rank on a resume/cover letter at all.)

My school ranks, but it's not on the transcript (at least not the unofficial transcript I have access to).

I don't think it's on my unofficial transcript, just the official one. And a ranking that's only available on request to clerkship applicants isn't really what I'd consider a real ranking, since I most contexts it's still unavailable to students and presumably ant get put on non-clerkship applications.

[jbagelboy]

But they would deserve it if they falsified their transcript?

No, that would be lying, which would be wrong. My point was that grades don't have any correlation to success in the real world.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/20/googl ... or-hiring/

Super old thread, but did this person rly non-ironically cite a daily caller article as support for a serious point?

[zhenders]

My mind is blown that this conversation has maintained a serious tone For three pages. OP's literally talking about cheating (thereby screwing whoever it is he takes a job from, fucking the legal profession's reputation even more, and marking her or himself as the exact kind of person who's willing to throw anyone they work with under the bus for their own self-benefit), and we're taking them seriously.

I get that it's not, but it should be anon abuse to ask the forum for advice on how easy it would be to fuck over their class at OCI by cheating like this. OP, you're a joke.

[Biglaw Investor]

Sure it's been done before. This guy was my summer associate mentor.

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/05/lawyer-o ... -friedman/

[Genius]

I think the point was that it is a stupid question because of common sense. It doesn't take a genius to know not to do this.

is this a call out thread?

[BVest]

I agree that it's not worth it. I'm simply speaking hypothetically in a world where grades matter to many firms even outside OCI. A low GPA could be the axe for a candidate where the employer is unfamiliar with the school's GPA distribution policy and/or used to seeing 3.5 GPAs with only cum laude distinction (e.g., I've seen Villanova grads with 3.7 GPAs with no law review...).

For most schools, it's pretty easy to google around and get a sense of whether the claim of a 3.1 (top 10%) holds any water.

[Anonymous User]

I think the real question is for people that first graduate and then start applying to jobs. Yes, they may not request a transcript, but if you have a very high GPA on your resume I'm sure it would make you a more desirable candidate. The only way I can see this screwing you over is if you were to put a very high rank/GPA on your resume and not have any distinction on your diploma, which one may feel obligated to hang in their office.

I have heard of people lying on their resume about their GPA in undergrad (where they never got caught), but not in law school.

[1styearlateral]

I agree that it's not worth it. I'm simply speaking hypothetically in a world where grades matter to many firms even outside OCI. A low GPA could be the axe for a candidate where the employer is unfamiliar with the school's GPA distribution policy and/or used to seeing 3.5 GPAs with only cum laude distinction (e.g., I've seen Villanova grads with 3.7 GPAs with no law review...).

For most schools, it's pretty easy to google around and get a sense of whether the claim of a 3.1 (top 10%) holds any water.

True, but showing that one is in the top 40% of the class with a 2.9 might carry some weight, so to speak.

[cdotson2]

there are likely lawyers from your school at this job and they know that 2.9 =/= 40%.

[bearsfan23]

Falsifying or altering a transcript is career suicide. I'm talking about falsifying something that is likely unverifiable, but could assist a candidate in the context of a non-grade-inflating school. But I appreciate the candid responses nonetheless.

As for students opting out of LR... lol not sure who would do that. Must look super lazy to an employer. And most schools I know allow the top 10 percent to grade onto LR. Everyone else my write on.

You're probably most familiar with T14 schools. Lots of other schools don't have an auto-grade-on.

And I know people who opted out of LR because they knew they would hate doing what they considered pointless work. Not sure why that should be considered lazy.

I've never heard of anyone doing this at my law school. All law school is "pointless work." Not doing LR if you qualify based on grades is lazy as hell

[zhenders]

Falsifying or altering a transcript is career suicide. I'm talking about falsifying something that is likely unverifiable, but could assist a candidate in the context of a non-grade-inflating school. But I appreciate the candid responses nonetheless.

As for students opting out of LR... lol not sure who would do that. Must look super lazy to an employer. And most schools I know allow the top 10 percent to grade onto LR. Everyone else my write on.

You're probably most familiar with T14 schools. Lots of other schools don't have an auto-grade-on.

And I know people who opted out of LR because they knew they would hate doing what they considered pointless work. Not sure why that should be considered lazy.

I've never heard of anyone doing this at my law school. All law school is "pointless work." Not doing LR if you qualify based on grades is lazy as hell

No. This is silly try-hard BS. I've spoken to corporate attorneys at a number of firms who have expressed that they wish they hadn't bothered with LR; others who congratulated friends of mine who had the foresight not to (because they weren't interested, and wanted a corporate practice). Still others who are going to awesome lit firms (to include top boutiques) who didn't do LR. This all depends on goals, grades, and school. Also let's not pretend LR is just a gold star. It's a pretty big commitment that can make 2L suck pretty friggin hard.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, I agree with zhenders. It take some guts to say "there are lots of things I value more than LR and so I'm going to do them, rather than waste my time on LR." Don't get me wrong, I think doing it is the safer thing and I would probably advise someone to suck it up and do LR (in part because my school name isn't going to open lots of door for you). But I don't think it's lazy to decide not to spend time on something you think is, shall we say, even more pointless than the rest of law school, and I'm not going to judge someone for not doing it. And I'm like the biggest white knight-er for LR out there.

And for the millionth time, there are plenty of schools were grades don't get you onto LR anyway, so it's not as simple as turning down an opportunity you've already earned through your grades. (Going to the "if you qualify based on grades" point.)

[Anonymous User]

A Villanova grad told me that you can grade on to law review but that you have to choose between law review and moot court, you can't do both.

[Anonymous User]

Sort of related question.. do employers request your official transcript after you accept an offer? Do they reach out to your law school directly for this?

[Jchance]

https://www.legalreader.com/attorney-su ... plication/

[Anonymous User]

https://www.legalreader.com/attorney-su ... plication/

This guy was in my law school class. Was not a surprise...