Columbia EIP 2014 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Another Kent checking in (so long as I don't get below a B in Con Law). I'm bidding mostly NY corporate and may throw in a few DC bids. My plan is to structure my bidlist to basically ensure that I get an interview with the top 15-20 corporate shops in NY, a couple safeties, and then a couple DC firms thrown in at the end.

I think 5% is an overestimation of Kent for 1Ls--IIRC OCS said about 2-3%. Would be surprised if it were more than a dozen of us.

I heard 2-3% thrown around as well. That was before they adjusted the curve I think, so that may have had a slight effect.

Kent bros: What's your estimation of your WLRK chances? If there's only about 10 of you and the majority of offers (around five a year) are Kent, you have to like them, right? And are you constructing your bidlists with the idea that SullCrom is your worst-case scenario? (Unless something goes fairly wrong in your interview)

I'd put our WLRK chances at a bit below even, assuming we get law review. I heard that at least a couple of the offers they gave out to the just-graduated 3Ls went to non-LR, so who knows though.

Also, what's everyone doing with Quinn? Just mailing in August if you're Stone?

I was considering interviewing in order to have an offer in hand going into EIP, but since I'm leaning corporate I couldn't justify it. If it were me, I'd try to get the interview as soon as Law Review results came out (or perhaps before if you don't think you're competitive for it), in order to get an offer before EIP. My theory is that the psychological effect of knowing you have a job has to be a pretty big boost in confidence that will shine through in interviews.

I'm thinking there are a lot of firms people would prefer to work at than S&C though with the options available to Kent (I could list like 15 already), unless you meant worst case scenario because sullivan will CB->offer basically everyone above a certain gpa.

I agree with this. I've heard mostly bad things about the culture and the fact that they're known to accept basically anybody above a certain GPA seems like a recipe for an above average amount of odd balls.

-Tormund Giantsbane

[Tiago Splitter]

I think 5% is an overestimation of Kent for 1Ls--IIRC OCS said about 2-3%. Would be surprised if it were more than a dozen of us.

Ten people got the RBG prize last year so it has to be more than 12 unless almost everyone who starts off Kent gets Kent all three years.

[Anonymous User]

Congrats to all you Kents, that's insane. Props.

I'll have between a 3.54 and a 3.66, depending on how Lynch's Crim grade comes out. I'd love to work in DC, say WilmerHale or Arnold & Porter, but am I out with a 3.54? Does a 3.58 change the calculus, or 3.6+?

I could honestly get anything from a B- to an A in Crim and not be surprised, so this one's way beyond me.

I was considering interviewing in order to have an offer in hand going into EIP, but since I'm leaning corporate I couldn't justify it. If it were me, I'd try to get the interview as soon as Law Review results came out (or perhaps before if you don't think you're competitive for it), in order to get an offer before EIP. My theory is that the psychological effect of knowing you have a job has to be a pretty big boost in confidence that will shine through in interviews.

I think this is spot on, thanks. I'll try for that!

I haven't ruled out corporate yet, but we can apply at no cost and if it does pan out, having anything in hand should be calming in itself.

- Captain Falcon

[Anonymous User]

3.83 checking in here. Going to bid probably 20 DC and 10 NY (Wachtell, Cravath, etc.). Would choose most DC firms over any NY firm though.

-Barkevious Mingo

I'm Kent too (assuming I don't get below a B on con law) and also applying nyc and dc. Are you focusing litigation? And how deep are you going into the vault 100 for "safeties"?


- Keyser Söze

I'm definitely lit/regulatory focused, though I'd consider making an exception for Wachtell which is why I'm bidding there. In terms of how deep into V100--not sure that's really applicable for a DC focus because Vault ranks are so NY-focused. I would say that the lowest Vault-ranked firms that I'll bid will be DC firms like Crowell, Venable, maybe Wiley Rein, etc., and will probably concentrate on V20 firms within NY.

In terms of safety--I think S&C is the safety, as I've heard the same thing everybody else has about callback --> offer if you're above a certain GPA. I'm also doing the whole Quinn thing so if I were to have that offer by the time bidding closes I'd adjust to eliminate a lot of firms I wouldn't choose over them.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I think 5% is an overestimation of Kent for 1Ls--IIRC OCS said about 2-3%. Would be surprised if it were more than a dozen of us.

Ten people got the RBG prize last year so it has to be more than 12 unless almost everyone who starts off Kent gets Kent all three years.

That's out of a class of like 405 though right? I would imagine the easier upper-year curve makes it fairly likely to remain Kent. My guess is that ten RBG came out of like fifteen 1L Kents.

I'm thinking there are a lot of firms people would prefer to work at than S&C though with the options available to Kent (I could list like 15 already), unless you meant worst case scenario because sullivan will CB->offer basically everyone above a certain gpa.

Not that S&C is so absolutely fantastic, but I can't imagine putting many more than 15 firms ahead of them: Off the top of my head, the ones you might put ahead of them: WLRK, CSM, DPW, BSF, W&C, MTO, Skadden, Covington, Kellogg, Susman, and undoubtedly a few others I'm forgetting. After that, your reasons for putting another firm ahead of them would be relatively idiosyncratic. While Kent + average social skills probably gives you a coin flip or better at any of them (except WLRK, which I'd put at 33-50%), S&C is the only one that would be pretty close to a lock, IMO.

I'll have between a 3.54 and a 3.66, depending on how Lynch's Crim grade comes out. I'd love to work in DC, say WilmerHale or Arnold & Porter, but am I out with a 3.54? Does a 3.58 change the calculus, or 3.6+? - Captain Falcon

I wouldn't say out at anywhere except W&C, Covington & Kellogg. But A&P and Wilmer would be uphill battles. Still think they're worth a bid, but you really have to be closer to 3.7 before you can bid heavily DC without impugnity.

[lunaraeon]

Still waiting on a grade, but might as well tag this for easy access.

[smaug_]

Tiago, in general I think your estimates are a touch optimistic. Someone sub 3.6 has a shot at Cravath/DPW/whatever but I think it's difficult. Interviewing skill and everything else is obviously very important.

re: WLRK I think it might be more doable than you expect. There's a self-selection factor going on with WLRK/Boies/others

the SullCrom auto-offer thing is almost true, but also consider whether you actually want to work there.

I'm going to try to avoid this thread, but general advice:

(1) Don't buy into what you read about a firm. Know what to say, but go to each place with an open mind and see what you think. There were some firms I thought I would love that I absolutely hated during the callback stage.

(2) Don't get too nervous. I would hustle, but I think interviewers can smell the fear on you. Just be yourself. Firms want to hire Columbia students. Just don't give them a reason not to hire you.

(3) Think hard before splitting your interviews between many cities unless you're sure you don't want NYC or you have stellar grades. There are several NY shops I didn't interview with because I was chasing smaller offices/prestige/god knows what. I kinda regret it even though I really like the firm I ended up at.

[Tiago Splitter]

Tiago, in general I think your estimates are a touch optimistic. Someone sub 3.6 has a shot at Cravath/DPW/whatever but I think it's difficult. Interviewing skill and everything else is obviously very important.

I think that's consistent with what I said, and I certainly don't want people to think they are V10 secure just because they are comfortably above Stone. But when a place like DPW is calling back 100 people I have to imagine they are cutting things off well below 3.6.

[smaug_]

Tiago, in general I think your estimates are a touch optimistic. Someone sub 3.6 has a shot at Cravath/DPW/whatever but I think it's difficult. Interviewing skill and everything else is obviously very important.

I think that's consistent with what I said, and I certainly don't want people to think they are V10 secure just because they are comfortably above Stone. But when a place like DPW is calling back 100 people I have to imagine they are cutting things off well below 3.6.

I definitely agree. I just think that at the end of the season, the same people end up with the lion's share of offers, and most of the people getting offers from prestigious firms will have good grades, an interesting background or will be great interviewers. I get that's a truism and I don't mean to dissuade people from bidding on those firms. I just think it helps to have realistic expectations going in.

[jbagelboy]

Tiago, in general I think your estimates are a touch optimistic. Someone sub 3.6 has a shot at Cravath/DPW/whatever but I think it's difficult. Interviewing skill and everything else is obviously very important.

re: WLRK I think it might be more doable than you expect. There's a self-selection factor going on with WLRK/Boies/others

the SullCrom auto-offer thing is almost true, but also consider whether you actually want to work there.

I'm going to try to avoid this thread, but general advice:

(1) Don't buy into what you read about a firm. Know what to say, but go to each place with an open mind and see what you think. There were some firms I thought I would love that I absolutely hated during the callback stage.

(2) Don't get too nervous. I would hustle, but I think interviewers can smell the fear on you. Just be yourself. Firms want to hire Columbia students. Just don't give them a reason not to hire you.

(3) Think hard before splitting your interviews between many cities unless you're sure you don't want NYC or you have stellar grades. There are several NY shops I didn't interview with because I was chasing smaller offices/prestige/god knows what. I kinda regret it even though I really like the firm I ended up at.

I know you said you want to avoid the thread, but we really do appreciate you guys dropping your wisdom in here! It's always helpful/reassuring, thank you.

[brazleton]

.

[Anonymous User]

Grade-wise, are target firms for low Stone places like Paul Weiss and Debevoise? I saw they had a high Stone offer rate, but unsure how far past Stone has to be to make their GPA cutoff.

[Anonymous User]

Grade-wise, are target firms for low Stone places like Paul Weiss and Debevoise? I saw they had a high Stone offer rate, but unsure how far past Stone has to be to make their GPA cutoff.

Bored 2014 grade here procrastinating instead of bar studying - I got callbacks at both of those firms post-OCI screener with low stone two years ago, but did not convert them to offers. Pretty sure that it was just about fit/interviewing skill and not grades.

[Anonymous User]

Grade-wise, are target firms for low Stone places like Paul Weiss and Debevoise? I saw they had a high Stone offer rate, but unsure how far past Stone has to be to make their GPA cutoff.

Bored 2014 grade here procrastinating instead of bar studying - I got callbacks at both of those firms post-OCI screener with low stone two years ago, but did not convert them to offers. Pretty sure that it was just about fit/interviewing skill and not grades.

Got it. Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

Got another grade back. 1 to go now. Pretty surprising that Thomas' Con Law would leave it to the last minute like this.

-Ned S.

[Anonymous User]

So, NYC firms to target if we're exactly median? Better question, what should the Honors % cut-off be for median kids?

Any chance firms give a shit about two HPs?

[Anonymous User]

Got another grade back. 1 to go now. Pretty surprising that Thomas' Con Law would leave it to the last minute like this.

-Ned S.

You're actually suprised that Thomas is the last person to get his grades in? Because he was so well organized and kept tight to his scheduled syllabus during class...

[Anonymous User]

Lynch grades came back.

For GPA calculation purposes, are B+'s a 3.3 or a 3.33, and are A-'s a 3.67 or 3.7? It's hardly going to shift anything but I'd be grateful just to know.

[Anonymous User]

Got another grade back. 1 to go now. Pretty surprising that Thomas' Con Law would leave it to the last minute like this.

-Ned S.

You're actually suprised that Thomas is the last person to get his grades in? Because he was so well organized and kept tight to his scheduled syllabus during class...

I hoped the sarcasm would come across. I'll take it as a victory if we have a grade before July. Though, given the pile of trash I turned in, maybe that's for the best.

[Anonymous User]

Got final grades back.

It seems like I slipped in to kent via the second method, but my GPA is a good bit below 3.80 (like not close). I imagine selective firms can tell the difference? What does that read like exactly?

- Little Finger

[officer-rabbit]

Grades are finally in, finished with a 3.59/3.6 (depending on if B+ is calculated as 3 and 1/3 or just 3.33). 2 years average work experience, assume average interviewer. What NY and SF/SV firms are out of reach? Any sense of where in the class that GPA puts me?

[Anonymous User]

any idea at chances for LA litigation firms w/ a 3.48 like gibson, o'melveny, munger, quinn, irell?

[smaug_]

any idea at chances for LA litigation firms w/ a 3.48 like gibson, o'melveny, munger, quinn, irell?

Will be very difficult and Irell and MTO are almost totally out, I think.

[Anonymous User]

Grades are finally in, finished with a 3.59/3.6 (depending on if B+ is calculated as 3 and 1/3 or just 3.33). 2 years average work experience, assume average interviewer. What NY and SF/SV firms are out of reach? Any sense of where in the class that GPA puts me?

I'm within 0.01 of you, am debating what I want to do. If I decide I want corporate, I'll target the exact same areas you are. I'm also very interested in what part of the class that GPA puts us in, I'd estimate right around top 20% but I'd just be speculating.

I don't think you're out of any SF/SV firms outside of Keker & Van Nest. MoFo SF's tricky, and the two students I know going there have very solid but comparable grades, but that's probably going to come down to fit, a demonstrated interest in staying and the small size of the summer class than your GPA. I understand they take 20-25 per year, but a good chunk of those slots are going to go to students from California schools.

The firms I don't know anything about are the NY branch offices in SV, like Simpson Thacher in Palo Alto and Davis Polk in Menlo Park. They seem to do mostly capital markets work with some other provided resources, as well as work for private investment funds of different types, but I have no clue how selective they are compared to their NY counterparts. Hope that helps, that's almost all I've got.

As far as NY, I'll assume you're learning corporate based on the SV choice, but I think we're within the hiring criteria for most firms. DPW/Cleary/Simpson etc. may be a crapshoot, S&C seems to favor slightly higher based on this thread and a couple recent ones floating around, and Wachtell's out. Seems popular among the Kent people in here too which'll make that even harder hah. But I think most of it's doable, definitely not entitled to a callback anywhere in that upper echelon but it'll just come down to your interview and other small factors. Your GPA shouldn't limit you much by itself. You're 100% in the running!

-Captain Falcon

[Anonymous User]

So, NYC firms to target if we're exactly median? Better question, what should the Honors % cut-off be for median kids?

Any chance firms give a shit about two HPs?

Tagging this because I am also exactly at median (B+ average) targeting NYC firms. No HPs though, congrats on that

-Joseph Anton