Northwestern OCI Forum

[homestyle28]

As an alternative for those hoping for DC, but without the credentials, you might consider going to a national firm with strong DC presence, but less stringent office. It's probably not that common, but some firms are pretty free with inter-office transfers. I know a dude headed to DC to start work who did his SA in Chicago. Obviously, don't plan on this, but it's an option for some.

[bricktemplar]

1) Don't listen to whatever "Rank 25%, need a 3.5, top10%" bullshit that firms put in their listings. It's not even close to accurate. And it's not even usually too low or too high. It's random. Some firms that want 3.8+ will put top 50%. Some firms that will take 2.9 put top 15%. Don't even consider it.

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

This is good advice, except even at 3.8 I wouldn't bid exclusively DC. I would throw in some NY or Chicago firms that have big classes where your GPA will give you a big advantage in getting a CB/offer.

Thanks a lot guys. Completely overwhelmed on how to even structure these bids so these really help. FWIW I'm thinking of splitting DC and Chicago, with a couple of NY firms sprinkled in. (Or is that too much? Just stick to two markets?)

[bjsesq]

1) Don't listen to whatever "Rank 25%, need a 3.5, top10%" bullshit that firms put in their listings. It's not even close to accurate. And it's not even usually too low or too high. It's random. Some firms that want 3.8+ will put top 50%. Some firms that will take 2.9 put top 15%. Don't even consider it.

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

This is good advice, except even at 3.8 I wouldn't bid exclusively DC. I would throw in some NY or Chicago firms that have big classes where your GPA will give you a big advantage in getting a CB/offer.

Thanks a lot guys. Completely overwhelmed on how to even structure these bids so these really help. FWIW I'm thinking of splitting DC and Chicago, with a couple of NY firms sprinkled in. (Or is that too much? Just stick to two markets?)

I would stick to two, and to be honest with you bidding DC and Chicago is risky. Neither are large markets, and if what you are looking for is safety, Chicago bids would be better put into NYC, imo.

[bricktemplar]

I would stick to two, and to be honest with you bidding DC and Chicago is risky. Neither are large markets, and if what you are looking for is safety, Chicago bids would be better put into NYC, imo.

Sounds good. So maybe instead, split D.C. and NYC with "reach" Chicago firms sprinkled in? (As opposed to Chi/D.C. split, with NYC reaches). Also, another stupid question -- how many total firms do people generally bid on?

Much thanks again!

[bjsesq]

Remember what you are trying to do here: maximize the number of bids that lead to interviews. Bidding certain firms too low essentially means you won't get them. I dunno what to tell you until I see a prospective bid list.

[bricktemplar]

Remember what you are trying to do here: maximize the number of bids that lead to interviews. Bidding certain firms too low essentially means you won't get them. I dunno what to tell you until I see a prospective bid list.

Hrm, great point. Will def try to post one up at some point. Much thanks again

[bjsesq]

Remember what you are trying to do here: maximize the number of bids that lead to interviews. Bidding certain firms too low essentially means you won't get them. I dunno what to tell you until I see a prospective bid list.

Hrm, great point. Will def try to post one up at some point. Much thanks again

Anytime. Keep using the people here. They keep you, and each other, in check.

[bricktemplar]

Remember what you are trying to do here: maximize the number of bids that lead to interviews. Bidding certain firms too low essentially means you won't get them. I dunno what to tell you until I see a prospective bid list.

Hrm, great point. Will def try to post one up at some point. Much thanks again

Anytime. Keep using the people here. They keep you, and each other, in check.

Will do. Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

1) Don't listen to whatever "Rank 25%, need a 3.5, top10%" bullshit that firms put in their listings. It's not even close to accurate. And it's not even usually too low or too high. It's random. Some firms that want 3.8+ will put top 50%. Some firms that will take 2.9 put top 15%. Don't even consider it.

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

This is good advice, except even at 3.8 I wouldn't bid exclusively DC. I would throw in some NY or Chicago firms that have big classes where your GPA will give you a big advantage in getting a CB/offer.

Thanks a lot guys. Completely overwhelmed on how to even structure these bids so these really help. FWIW I'm thinking of splitting DC and Chicago, with a couple of NY firms sprinkled in. (Or is that too much? Just stick to two markets?)

I would stick to two, and to be honest with you bidding DC and Chicago is risky. Neither are large markets, and if what you are looking for is safety, Chicago bids would be better put into NYC, imo.

If you have a 3.7-3.8 and are a decent interviewee, you can soak up callbacks at the V10-15 NY firms. They have such big classes that oftentimes they'll give callbacks to a dozen or more people from 40 interview slots.

[zugzwanger]

Where would you guys draw the line b/w a large class size v. medium to smaller? I ran Chicago firms on NALP and there are only 8 firms with 20+ expected class size for 2014. Only about 6 that have between 10-20 summers expected. 10-20 does not seem like a large class size maybe this is why people say Chi is tough haha

[bananasplit19]

Where would you guys draw the line b/w a large class size v. medium to smaller? I ran Chicago firms on NALP and there are only 8 firms with 20+ expected class size for 2014. Only about 6 that have between 10-20 summers expected. 10-20 does not seem like a large class size maybe this is why people say Chi is tough haha

SF/SV is even worse. I could probably count the number of 20+ classes on one thumbless hand.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a 3.7-3.8 and are a decent interviewee, you can soak up callbacks at the V10-15 NY firms. They have such big classes that oftentimes they'll give callbacks to a dozen or more people from 40 interview slots.

Does a 3.7-3.8 have any shot at CSM/DPW/S&C/STB/Cleary on its own? Or is Law Review and/or significant work experience a definite requirement to just get through the door?

[bk1]

1) Don't listen to whatever "Rank 25%, need a 3.5, top10%" bullshit that firms put in their listings. It's not even close to accurate. And it's not even usually too low or too high. It's random. Some firms that want 3.8+ will put top 50%. Some firms that will take 2.9 put top 15%. Don't even consider it.

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

Even with higher grades than that I think that DC is still risky.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a 3.7-3.8 and are a decent interviewee, you can soak up callbacks at the V10-15 NY firms. They have such big classes that oftentimes they'll give callbacks to a dozen or more people from 40 interview slots.

Does a 3.7-3.8 have any shot at CSM/DPW/S&C/STB/Cleary on its own? Or is Law Review and/or significant work experience a definite requirement to just get through the door?

Yes, for sure. Law review is not a requirement, though it's a plus (a bit more for lit). For any top firm you want to have an interesting story--usually that story comes from your work experience or whatever you've done before law school.

[igo2northwestern]

1) Don't listen to whatever "Rank 25%, need a 3.5, top10%" bullshit that firms put in their listings. It's not even close to accurate. And it's not even usually too low or too high. It's random. Some firms that want 3.8+ will put top 50%. Some firms that will take 2.9 put top 15%. Don't even consider it.

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

Even with higher grades than that I think that DC is still risky.

3.8ish for my year was very much top15%+. I think it's good advice to say that even with top 10% grades you can strike out, but at that level it's more a function of what your story is for DC and whether you've fine tuned your interviewing skills.

[bk1]

3.8ish for my year was very much top15%+. I think it's good advice to say that even with top 10% grades you can strike out, but at that level it's more a function of what your story is for DC and whether you've fine tuned your interviewing skills.

I've seen enough people fail miserably at converting screeners to callbacks and enough TLSers unknowingly provide horrible answers to interview Qs (that they think are good answers) that I tend to think it's better to err on the side of caution. I'd hazard that most law students are mediocre to okay interviewers at best.

[Anonymous User]

3.8ish for my year was very much top15%+. I think it's good advice to say that even with top 10% grades you can strike out, but at that level it's more a function of what your story is for DC and whether you've fine tuned your interviewing skills.

I've seen enough people fail miserably at converting screeners to callbacks and enough TLSers unknowingly provide horrible answers to interview Qs (that they think are good answers) that I tend to think it's better to err on the side of caution. I'd hazard that most law students are mediocre to okay interviewers at best.

In the 3.5-3.6 range, what should the strategy be for people focused on staying in Chicago? Worth it to bid on the Sidley/Kirkland/Mayer/Jenner types?

[bjsesq]

3.8ish for my year was very much top15%+. I think it's good advice to say that even with top 10% grades you can strike out, but at that level it's more a function of what your story is for DC and whether you've fine tuned your interviewing skills.

I've seen enough people fail miserably at converting screeners to callbacks and enough TLSers unknowingly provide horrible answers to interview Qs (that they think are good answers) that I tend to think it's better to err on the side of caution. I'd hazard that most law students are mediocre to okay interviewers at best.

In the 3.5-3.6 range, what should the strategy be for people focused on staying in Chicago? Worth it to bid on the Sidley/Kirkland/Mayer/Jenner types?

If Chicago is what you want, yes. Mayer and Sidley were more grade whore, iirc, and Sidley went really high. Kirkland will dip lower into the pot for good interviewers, so I strongly recommend going after them. I don't remember a thing about Jenner.

[Anonymous User]

3.8ish for my year was very much top15%+. I think it's good advice to say that even with top 10% grades you can strike out, but at that level it's more a function of what your story is for DC and whether you've fine tuned your interviewing skills.

I've seen enough people fail miserably at converting screeners to callbacks and enough TLSers unknowingly provide horrible answers to interview Qs (that they think are good answers) that I tend to think it's better to err on the side of caution. I'd hazard that most law students are mediocre to okay interviewers at best.

In the 3.5-3.6 range, what should the strategy be for people focused on staying in Chicago? Worth it to bid on the Sidley/Kirkland/Mayer/Jenner types?

If Chicago is what you want, yes. Mayer and Sidley were more grade whore, iirc, and Sidley went really high. Kirkland will dip lower into the pot for good interviewers, so I strongly recommend going after them. I don't remember a thing about Jenner.

Thanks. Anywhere you wouldn't bid on w/ that GPA? I've realized there's no point in going for DC (wasn't ever really considering it either), so I'm thinking of splitting Chicago/NYC. Prefer Chicago, but rather end up with any job than unemployed in Chicago.

[Kikero]

With a 3.6 I think the only places you definitely don't want to bother bidding are the really selective boutiques. With a 3.5, again, you can try the more selective big firms since they have large class sizes, but I doubt you'll get Sidley or MB, so if you're splitting your bids somewhere else that is in high demand you might not want to use up high bids on them (which is the only way you'll get interviews with them).

[homestyle28]

Echoing what others have said wrt 3.6 in Chicago. There are a few selective boutiques to avoid (Grippo, Barrack) but everything is in play. I would pick 2 of Skadden/Kirkland/Sidley depending on what you want/your background. I tend to think Sidley goes a little more forbookish/quirky types than Skadden/Kirkland. If you'e got some sort of interesting humanitarian/lib credential then Jenner would be a good bet. Mayer, Winston, Jones Day are all right in your sweet spot.

[Dr. Filth]

tag

tyia for all of the advice everyone

[Anonymous User]

Echoing what others have said wrt 3.6 in Chicago. There are a few selective boutiques to avoid (Grippo, Barrack) but everything is in play. I would pick 2 of Skadden/Kirkland/Sidley depending on what you want/your background. I tend to think Sidley goes a little more forbookish/quirky types than Skadden/Kirkland. If you'e got some sort of interesting humanitarian/lib credential then Jenner would be a good bet. Mayer, Winston, Jones Day are all right in your sweet spot.

Should all of these firms be in our top 8? I haven't heard anyone really talk about where you have to bid Skadden/Latham/MB/JD/Winston. Are they still going to be in that 1-8 range that DF talks about?

[bjsesq]

Fuck Winston. That is all.

[Anonymous User]

Fuck Winston. That is all.

haven't forgotten about your class, and continue to tell everyone about it as we approach oci. sorry man