Georgetown EIW 2014 Forum

[Anonymous User]

In response to anonymous at 9:26pm: OCS told me to expect between 5-8 interviews for NY/DC, IF I bid well. They said NY and DC are so hyped up that people who bid solely on NY/DC get as low as 2 interviews.

That's a sobering statistic. Was OCS taking into account pre selects and meant that you (with your gpa range) should expect 5-8, or was it a blanket, general statement?

[dead head]

In response to anonymous at 9:26pm: OCS told me to expect between 5-8 interviews for NY/DC, IF I bid well. They said NY and DC are so hyped up that people who bid solely on NY/DC get as low as 2 interviews.

The 2 interview part seems a bit extreme, even to me, but I can totally buy that the average number of lottery interviews might be around 8. I mean, Kirkland is relatively unselective and has big summer classes, but has only 15 lottery interview slots for NY... and they'll get maybe 150 bids. Paul Hastings has 88 lottery slots firmwide and they'll probably get 500 bids. I know people who got 7 DC interviews when there were at least 50% more lottery slots available than what I see above. 2 interviews probably means really bad bidding, though.

[Anonymous User]

dead head and other anonymous:

trust me-- I was really shocked when I heard "5-8 ideally; sometimes as low as 2". it wasn't specific to me and my GPA (I'm in the top 15%), but to me and others who are bidding solely on NY or NY+DC. (I'm bidding solely NY.) 2 is probably really bad bidding, hopefully. My counselor is one of the ones who has been at OCS for a long time, so I believe him. He said people who get 10+ usually bid on NJ, etc. Further sobering considering that (I think) many people with these bid lists probably went to OCI and got the OK, and ended up with these results. Another factor that he pointed out is that often you will get passed over for a lottery slot you would otherwise get because of scheduling conflicts with another interview for that day. Totally plausible, since most of the firms currently on my list are coming on Monday and Tuesday

I don't think his statement included the pre-selects, since this is our first year doing it.

[kckool7]

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[Anonymous User]

Do we have more interview slots this year, where should I get this info?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone has any idea on how to deal with the firms with no info from GPA history and no hiring guideline from Simplicity?

[Anonymous User]

dead head and other anonymous:

trust me-- I was really shocked when I heard "5-8 ideally; sometimes as low as 2". it wasn't specific to me and my GPA (I'm in the top 15%), but to me and others who are bidding solely on NY or NY+DC. (I'm bidding solely NY.) 2 is probably really bad bidding, hopefully. My counselor is one of the ones who has been at OCS for a long time, so I believe him. He said people who get 10+ usually bid on NJ, etc. Further sobering considering that (I think) many people with these bid lists probably went to OCI and got the OK, and ended up with these results. Another factor that he pointed out is that often you will get passed over for a lottery slot you would otherwise get because of scheduling conflicts with another interview for that day. Totally plausible, since most of the firms currently on my list are coming on Monday and Tuesday

I don't think his statement included the pre-selects, since this is our first year doing it.

Rising 3L OCS is just covering their ass. Most people got 9-14 (this was all lottery last year) unless you bid poorly or all DC. OCS obviously will tell you the low end, because when you get only 8 you are pleased since it is the top of the range they gave you and don't complain. Remember OCS has its own motivations too and this was an important lesson some of my friends learned when they followed OCS advice and got screwed.

[dead head]

Rising 3L OCS is just covering their ass. Most people got 9-14 (this was all lottery last year) unless you bid poorly or all DC. OCS obviously will tell you the low end, because when you get only 8 you are pleased since it is the top of the range they gave you and don't complain. Remember OCS has its own motivations too and this was an important lesson some of my friends learned when they followed OCS advice and got screwed.

Assuming the same number of interview slots this year, 9-14 interviews through 100% lottery is basically equivalent to 8 lottery interviews where only 70% of slots are lottery.

I agree that career services everywhere always have their own agendas, but 8 seems reasonable. There are also a fair number of people who only bid DC, so the true median will likely be lower.

Regardless, the takeaway message should be that you should be mailing far and wide to pick up additional interviews, especially since no one has any idea how pre-selects will be distributed and who is likely to pick them up.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a good list of Washington D.C. firms/offices that do corporate/transactions work? I mean, that actually do that work. I can go onto each office's website and they'll throw out a whole bunch of practice areas that they do, but then I find out later that "our lawyers practice in capital markets transactions" actually means "we have one senior partner who does all that, and if you want to work here you're going to be a litigator."

I know hogan lovells has a big corporate practice in D.C. As does the Latham D.C. office, given their relationship with The Carlyle Group. Any other suggestions?

[kckool7]

Does anyone have a good list of Washington D.C. firms/offices that do corporate/transactions work? I mean, that actually do that work. I can go onto each office's website and they'll throw out a whole bunch of practice areas that they do, but then I find out later that "our lawyers practice in capital markets transactions" actually means "we have one senior partner who does all that, and if you want to work here you're going to be a litigator."

I know Hogan Lovells has a big corporate practice in D.C. As does the Latham D.C. office, given their relationship with The Carlyle Group. Any other suggestions?

Look on NALP under practice group. It tells you how many partners/associates are in each area.

[Anonymous User]

Someone wanna do me a solid and post when that top 5% email goes out?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe policies have changed and they won't send a 5% email anymore?

It generally has gone out right after cutoffs are posted, and it's been almost 2 weeks, right (I'm a rising 3L)?

At this point, if it is coming, it's probably not coming before bids are due for EIW. Either way, I wouldn't sweat it; it's not like anyone has an advantage or anything. But I totally get wanting to know!

[dead head]

Maybe policies have changed and they won't send a 5% email anymore?

It was never an official policy. Or, more accurately, it was always a violation of the student handbook's stated policy of not ranking students and only having Dean's List, cum laude, and magna cum laude distinctions (by this standard the practice of releasing 1L top-15% cutoffs and annualized top-10% cutoffs is also in violation of the handbook). So if they stopped releasing the top-5% rankings they are actually just obeying their written policy.

But if they have stopped releasing this information, I wonder what they're going to tell firms who are used to seeing this information.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe policies have changed and they won't send a 5% email anymore?

It was never an official policy. Or, more accurately, it was always a violation of the student handbook's stated policy of not ranking students and only having Dean's List, cum laude, and magna cum laude distinctions (by this standard the practice of releasing 1L top-15% cutoffs and annualized top-10% cutoffs is also in violation of the handbook). So if they stopped releasing the top-5% rankings they are actually just obeying their written policy.

But if they have stopped releasing this information, I wonder what they're going to tell firms who are used to seeing this information.

Has anyone tried calling the registrar's office to ask when they'll be released? Would be nice to know one way or the other...

[Anonymous User]

Anybody have any pointers on what exactly to say in the e-mails we send out to firms we´re interested in? I´ve had an appallingly low response rate and I´m wondering if I´m just not writing a good e-mail. I´m writing to firms all over the map, so it´s not like Covington is looking at a 2.7 GPA and thinking “get real, kid.”

What do you say in “cold” e-mails to lawyers you have no connection to (other than maybe the same alma mater and/or same interests in practice area)? How much different should these e-mails be when you have someone in common other than putting “So-and-so suggested I contact you” at the beginning?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe policies have changed and they won't send a 5% email anymore?

It was never an official policy. Or, more accurately, it was always a violation of the student handbook's stated policy of not ranking students and only having Dean's List, cum laude, and magna cum laude distinctions (by this standard the practice of releasing 1L top-15% cutoffs and annualized top-10% cutoffs is also in violation of the handbook). So if they stopped releasing the top-5% rankings they are actually just obeying their written policy.

But if they have stopped releasing this information, I wonder what they're going to tell firms who are used to seeing this information.

Has anyone tried calling the registrar's office to ask when they'll be released? Would be nice to know one way or the other...

You could try, but since it was an un-acknowledged policy, that was technically against the book (thanks for pointing that out dead head), I really doubt they'll say anything.

And then they'll mess with you're pre-registration for being cheeky.

[dead head]

Anybody have any pointers on what exactly to say in the e-mails we send out to firms we´re interested in? I´ve had an appallingly low response rate and I´m wondering if I´m just not writing a good e-mail. I´m writing to firms all over the map, so it´s not like Covington is looking at a 2.7 GPA and thinking “get real, kid.”

In my experience you'll get the most movement closer to EIW, when HR is trying to figure out their schedules and determine who they should meet with while their interviewers are on/near campus. As for the content of the email, I think HR appreciates it when you keep things short and to the point, and quickly give them the information they want to hear: your school, your GPA, and your interest in interviewing for an SA position. If you're sending these emails now, they may think you're not bidding them through the lottery; if you wait until after the schedules are released, you can say you weren't able to get them through the lottery.

As for reaching out for informational interviews, this probably isn't the best time to do so, and even in the best of circumstances you won't get a huge response rate (and not always because they don't want to talk with you). Lawyers are obviously busy, and it's easy for you to be put on the back burner... especially when you are getting in touch during OCI season and more transparently in search of a job interview as opposed to information in general.

[l31989]

So you would recommend addressing these e-mails to some kind of recruiting contact as opposed to some other attorney or partner with whom you share some kind of interest?

[dead head]

So you would recommend addressing these e-mails to some kind of recruiting contact as opposed to some other attorney or partner with whom you share some kind of interest?

Emails asking for a screener and/or expressing interest in an SA position? Send them to HR. Send them to an attorney and the best case scenario is that she forwards them to the hiring partner and/or HR, but more likely you don't even hear back from the attorney you send them to and even if you do they may not forward your stuff to HR if they don't like something in your resume and/or take you at face value and believe you actually want an informational interview.

Reach out to individual lawyers for informational interviews. You want a job interview. I mean, if you reach out to an individual lawyer for a job interview and you're not even pretending to be building a relationship, offering them any value, or giving them any sense that they are actually helping you in a non-job-grubbing manner.

[Anonymous User]

Is the 2L bid stat in 2013 really helpful?

I heard from OCS that it fluctuated every year and things are kind of unpredictable.

I think it makes sense because everyone can make a reference of it and people may swoop in the one which has low bids the year before.

Hope to get some advice.

[Anonymous User]

Is it common to ask for a screening interview before EIW? Are you essentially saying, "I'm interested in your firm, I bid you highly, can you interview me before you interview me"?

[Anonymous User]

Is it common to ask for a screening interview before EIW? Are you essentially saying, "I'm interested in your firm, I bid you highly, can you interview me before you interview me"?

On their websites most firms expressly warn against doing this fwiw

[Anonymous User]

Is the 2L bid stat in 2013 really helpful?

I heard from OCS that it fluctuated every year and things are kind of unpredictable.

I think it makes sense because everyone can make a reference of it and people may swoop in the one which has low bids the year before.

Hope to get some advice.

I know someone who was able to get the 2012 bid stats from a rising 3L, and he said that surprisingly the stats are very similar for both 2012 and 2013.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L OCS is just covering their ass. Most people got 9-14 (this was all lottery last year) unless you bid poorly or all DC. OCS obviously will tell you the low end, because when you get only 8 you are pleased since it is the top of the range they gave you and don't complain. Remember OCS has its own motivations too and this was an important lesson some of my friends learned when they followed OCS advice and got screwed.

Assuming the same number of interview slots this year, 9-14 interviews through 100% lottery is basically equivalent to 8 lottery interviews where only 70% of slots are lottery.

I agree that career services everywhere always have their own agendas, but 8 seems reasonable. There are also a fair number of people who only bid DC, so the true median will likely be lower.

Regardless, the takeaway message should be that you should be mailing far and wide to pick up additional interviews, especially since no one has any idea how pre-selects will be distributed and who is likely to pick them up.

Per my meeting with my OCS counselor last week, this seems accurate. I am bidding heavily NY and my counselor told me I might only get 6-10 interviews.

[dead head]

Does anyone know exactly how the preselect system will be run? As I said in another thread, I can see it working horribly, where all the preselects go to the top 15% of the class, with everyone else having 5-10 interviews. Has OCS clarified how this will work?

Apparently at UVa the preselect system runs first, and there is a cap on how many interviews a student can have. If the student reaches this interview cap through preselects, they are not run through the lottery at all. This would make more sense, but it's not clear how the process will work at Georgetown.