Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013) Forum

[seespotrun]

Astute analysis there, lil brah. Try again when you have actually have something to say.

I'll slow this down for you "broski" Perhaps your poor reading comprehension and communication skills are why your bonus is flat.

1. You claimed salaries would never reach $190k.

"never."

2. I replied that saying salaries would never reach $190k made zero sense.
3. You articulated the reasons you felt I was incorrect in this well thought out, insightful, and well supported response:

You seem dumb.

4. I pointed out that you may need a lesson in entry level econ, as implying that salaries would never reach $190k was about as intelligent as saying the sun will never burn out.

Which brings us back to your current reply. Why don't you try again when you have something of even entry level intelligence to add.

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

[Big Shrimpin]

If there's no reason to think bonuses will go up this year, why'd they jump so much last year?

Tons of growth at the top firms. Last year was batshit insane.

I would be elated if the market jumped (I'd love to buy myself a nice toy), but I've learned not to get my hopes up. This can only be understood when you've felt the weight of the billable hour for some time.

I'm with you here bro.

I have no doubt in my mind that bonuses won't be higher this year. If anything, I am prepared to get less this year than I did last year.

Are you lockstep? I have to imagine we'll go sideways at worst.

[ipguy]

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.

[mephistopheles]

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

one of my favorite rage comics

[wiseowl]

mother of christ this board is unreadable

[seespotrun]

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

I interpreted it as sarcasm when I read his post yesterday just like everyone else who is not nitpicking his clearly sarcastic post.

[skers]

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.

In the year 2150 when 1st year salaries finally hit 190k the floating head of ipguy will be able to smugly say I told you so.

[Old Gregg]

y u mad tho

I'm not, just enjoying a good laugh on a friday at the expense of clown-ship esquire.

Idk brofessor, you sound like you need to rage dump some more

After the mexican I had for lunch I will certainly be rage dumping soon

Sounds like you're already doing it in this thread. I don't know if your parents taught you this, but you do that outside.

[Big Shrimpin]

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.

In the year 2150 when 1st year salaries finally hit 190k the floating head of ipguy will be able to smugly say I told you so.

Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

[ipguy]

Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

*kid* has been making it in the outside world longer than you've been driving... kid.

[SemperLegal]

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:

Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.

Save some bergers for the rest of us.

[Old Gregg]

Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

*kid* has been making it in the outside world longer than you've been driving... kid.

Surviving more than 5 minutes on GTA online doesn't count.

[Danger Zone]

Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

*kid* has been making it in the outside world longer than you've been driving... kid.

Surviving more than 5 minutes on GTA online doesn't count.

But with all the griefers, that is a fucking accomplishment.

[keg411]

My guess is it will be flat from the lockstep bonus firms. Cahill will give their extra $10k. K&E and the other blackbox/merit bonus firms will do their thing... whether that's good or bad depends on way more than I need to care about; although it will probably be good if you're at K&E. Quinn and a couple other firms will have their hours-based tiers. Sounds like STB might give an increase, but if they do I doubt it will be anything dramatic.

We're not going back to 2007 and the land of double-bonuses any time soon. It's just reality.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at STB (new associate) and can confirm that there have been whispers that we may beat the Cravath scale this year--whispers from two partners independently, not from associates. Still only rumors, and I am expecting us to match Cravath, but it's at least possible that we won't. I certainly don't think Cravath will raise bonuses. What happens if STB (or somewhere else that normally follows Cravath) beats the Cravath scale is harder to predict.

I can very easily believe this -- seems like every other deal I'm on has STB on the other side.

[84651846190]

This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.

[Old Gregg]

This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.

You have to keep in mind the kind of person who survives long in big law is precisely this kind of person. He'll make it to year 8, and then get axed because he can't develop a book and can't be put in front of a client. However, give him 300 signature pages, and he will happily work until 4am and pad his hours so he can condescendingly tell you precisely where the periods and commas are missing.

Sadly, the kind of person you'd want to promote to partner (i.e., one who can develop client relationships, yet one who is also exceptional in work product) is likely someone who is too entrepreneurial for big law. He will seek an exit the moment he senses he's being led on by the powers that be, assuming that said powers don't already axe him because they feel threatened by him (yes, this happens too). Keep in mind, he will also be a flight risk because he will be falling on job offers left and right, whether he wants them or not.

At the end of the day, the associate most likely to make partner is one who is entrepreneurial, but not so much that they're a flight risk, and smart. Dude must strike a perfect balance.

When you look at partnership promotion numbers, it makes sense why the numbers are so daunting. The truly talented, sociable, engaging and entrepreneurial people are leaving voluntarily, and you can't "pity counsel" the as pie 8th year who has 200 pimples concealed by a grotesque neck beard from spending hours in his office spotting commas because of ITE, so you axe him. There's not much left in an associate class, especially an 8th year class, when those two types can't be promoted.

[Big Shrimpin]

This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.

YURP

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

when are we going to see 190k?

not for a very long time

bonuses will be flat. sorry guys.

Ran here to poast this, although I would change the first line I "never."

I would imagine that as firms try to deal with the "I'm not paying a first year to work on this mentality" they might keep first year salaries static and raise 2nd and 3rd year rates. But that also seems unlikely.

[run26.2]

This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.

You have to keep in mind the kind of person who survives long in big law is precisely this kind of person. He'll make it to year 8, and then get axed because he can't develop a book and can't be put in front of a client. However, give him 300 signature pages, and he will happily work until 4am and pad his hours so he can condescendingly tell you precisely where the periods and commas are missing.

Sadly, the kind of person you'd want to promote to partner (i.e., one who can develop client relationships, yet one who is also exceptional in work product) is likely someone who is too entrepreneurial for big law. He will seek an exit the moment he senses he's being led on by the powers that be, assuming that said powers don't already axe him because they feel threatened by him (yes, this happens too). Keep in mind, he will also be a flight risk because he will be falling on job offers left and right, whether he wants them or not.

At the end of the day, the associate most likely to make partner is one who is entrepreneurial, but not so much that they're a flight risk, and smart. Dude must strike a perfect balance.

When you look at partnership promotion numbers, it makes sense why the numbers are so daunting. The truly talented, sociable, engaging and entrepreneurial people are leaving voluntarily, and you can't "pity counsel" the as pie 8th year who has 200 pimples concealed by a grotesque neck beard from spending hours in his office spotting commas because of ITE, so you axe him. There's not much left in an associate class, especially an 8th year class, when those two types can't be promoted.

This is an excellent analysis. I agree with most, if not all, of it based on numerous discussions of the paths to partnership with several attorneys at my firm.

[84651846190]

Anybody hear anything (substantiated) about bonuses yet?

[Big Shrimpin]

Radio silence. I'm expecting it'll be end of the month/early Dec.

[Old Gregg]

If it's good, Cravath will announce before Thanksgiving. If bad, after.

[Lincoln]

Post-Recession Bonuses

2009 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2008 — $7,500
Class of 2007 — $10,000
Class of 2006 — $15,000
Class of 2005 — $20,000
Class of 2004 — $25,000
Class of 2003 — $30,000
Class of 2002 — $30,000

2010 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2009 – $7,500
Class of 2008 — $10,000
Class of 2007 — $15,000
Class of 2006 — $20,000
Class of 2005 — $25,000
Class of 2004 — $30,000
Class of 2003 — $35,000

2011 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2010 — $7,500
Class of 2009 — $10,000
Class of 2008 — $15,000
Class of 2007 — $20,000
Class of 2006 — $25,000
Class of 2005 — $30,000
Class of 2004 — $37,500

2012 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2012 — $10,000 (pro-rated)
Class of 2011 — $10,000
Class of 2010 — $14,000
Class of 2009 — $20,000
Class of 2008 — $27,000
Class of 2007 — $34,000
Class of 2006 — $40,000
Class of 2005 — $50,000
Class of 2004 — $60,000

Overall CAGR for the four years is between 7-8%.

If we assume they'll stick to the same growth rate, bonuses will be up by like $1000. If we assume they'll continue the increase from last year, bonuses will jump up a few thousand dollars. And if we assume that last year was just a one year correction to account for the increased PPP, bonuses will probably stay the same.

This ignores spring bonuses, no? Wasn't that in 2011?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody hear anything (substantiated) about bonuses yet?

I'm at Cravath, and I haven't heard so much as a whisper.