HLS EIP 2013 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all. Another poster here. Almost exact stats as Lollipop: 6H/1P, K-JD. Relatively prestigious undergrad, but not an Ivy/nothing too high in the list.

The thing is I have a lot of connections to NY, but where I really want to be is in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco region. I love the area and visit friends there several times a year. I see myself living there long-term and love the tech/patent work going down there. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no connections there. Can anyone advise me on how to bid/spin my story? Would I be an idiot to go all-out bidding for SF?

- Pegasus

Wait what are your grades? 6H/4P or 6H/1P/3DS? There aren't 35 SF/SV firms coming right? Aren't there only 15 or so? Just bid SF/SV then NY safeties and practice looking people in the eye and convincing them you don't wanna be in NY.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all. Another poster here. Almost exact stats as Lollipop: 6H/1P, K-JD. Relatively prestigious undergrad, but not an Ivy/nothing too high in the list.

The thing is I have a lot of connections to NY, but where I really want to be is in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco region. I love the area and visit friends there several times a year. I see myself living there long-term and love the tech/patent work going down there. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no connections there. Can anyone advise me on how to bid/spin my story? Would I be an idiot to go all-out bidding for SF?

- Pegasus

Wait what are your grades? 6H/4P or 6H/1P/3DS? There aren't 35 SF/SV firms coming right? Aren't there only 15 or so? Just bid SF/SV then NY safeties and practice looking people in the eye and convincing them you don't wanna be in NY.

Oops, that was a typo. 6H/4P's, haha. I did not realize there were so few SF/SV's coming. Sigh, I don't want to make up any stories but I do know SF is extremely ties-oriented.

[Person1111]

You can fill a bid list with SF/SV. It will include basically every SF/SV firm that comes to EIP, but you can do it. They do care about ties but, again, compelling narrative plus good interviewing skills plus good grades at HLS does count for a lot. I do think that bidding 20 SF/SV firms plus your 10 favorite firms between V2-V20 in NY is the best strategy in your shoes, just because some of the SF/SV firms that would occupy spots 20-35 on your bid list have very small class sizes or are places you might not want to work for.

[Anonymous User]

I'm mainly interested in Chicago. How competitive is that market for HLS students compared with Boston, NY, LA? Are firms that are based elsewhere but have Chicago offices, like Skadden and Ropes, less selective for their Chicago (and other) offices then their main offices? Trying to figure out how competitive I will be with 3H/7P.

[Anonymous User]

You can fill a bid list with SF/SV. It will include basically every SF/SV firm that comes to EIP, but you can do it. They do care about ties but, again, compelling narrative plus good interviewing skills plus good grades at HLS does count for a lot. I do think that bidding 20 SF/SV firms plus your 10 favorite firms between V2-V20 in NY is the best strategy in your shoes, just because some of the SF/SV firms that would occupy spots 20-35 on your bid list have very small class sizes or are places you might not want to work for.

Yeah this, I had my sort wrong on the excel sheet. Mea Culpa. I like the strategy too.

[Anonymous User]

How do you apply to Quinn? Can you apply if you stopped by the spring campus event but didn't sign anything or stay for the whole time?

[Anonymous User]

How do you apply to Quinn? Can you apply if you stopped by the spring campus event but didn't sign anything or stay for the whole time?

I got an email for, the hiring partner with instructions. The instructions basically say to email resume and transcript to the recruiter (no cover letter, I just wrote a cover email).

I would come up with a reason for not sticking around for the reception but don't worry about it too much

-lollipop

[Anonymous User]

A few pro-tips from someone who went through it last year with iffy grades (1H/9P) and ended up doing insanely well.

1) Don't stress too much about grades;
2) If you are serious about bidding the major SF/SV players (Fenwick, Wilson Sonsini, etc.) either put a few of them in your top 7ish slots or don't even bother wasting the bids; and
3) Don't stress too much about specific bid ordering, if you aren't focusing solely on SF/SV you will end up with tons of interviews.

[Anonymous User]

I did EIP last summer. No ties to Boston, 3H/7P, no work experience. Got callbacks from every firm in Boston except for Ropes and Latham and received offers from all the callbacks I went on.

...You'll be fine.

Edited to add: When they asked me, "Why Boston?" I just listed things I liked about the city and explained why I didn't want to go home. Everyone asked me "Why Boston?" but no one seemed particularly paranoid about me running back home (they like Boston, too, and think everyone should).

Are you Justice Homes from last year's EIP thread? I was just looking through trying to figure out how things turned out for that guy/girl since we have the same grades and target market.

Nope didn't post in last year's thread.

[itbdvorm]

Can I ask, as an actual attorney curious about this thread, how you came about creating this list? Odd to me to see firms like Willkie, Schulte, Milbank, Patterson, Kirkland NY, Kramer in your "Green" Band, firms like Debeoivse and Weil in your "Blue" Band (and Herbert Smith and Seward) and firms like Latham and, to a lesser extent, Cahill in your "Yellow" Band...

Not that anon but as long as you're here want to offer a thought on how much "easier" it is for Harvard students to land a job at your firm versus students at other T14s?
Is the advantage primarily that you will dip a bit lower into the grade pool than at other schools?
What do you view median as?
How do you view someone with all Ps?

Thanks.

So it's certainly "easier" for Harvard students than other schools in the following two ways:

1) Our grade cut is lower than all except one or two other schools
2) I have a hunch it's slightly easier in the callback phase once you've cleared the grade/screener hurdle

In terms of median...no idea. Not really relevant for me, I go based upon what our grade cut is (which frankly changes slightly every year, they tell me beforehand). All Ps frankly has no chance for us (sorry).

[Anonymous User]

Can I ask, as an actual attorney curious about this thread, how you came about creating this list? Odd to me to see firms like Willkie, Schulte, Milbank, Patterson, Kirkland NY, Kramer in your "Green" Band, firms like Debeoivse and Weil in your "Blue" Band (and Herbert Smith and Seward) and firms like Latham and, to a lesser extent, Cahill in your "Yellow" Band...

Not that anon but as long as you're here want to offer a thought on how much "easier" it is for Harvard students to land a job at your firm versus students at other T14s?
Is the advantage primarily that you will dip a bit lower into the grade pool than at other schools?
What do you view median as?
How do you view someone with all Ps?

Thanks.

So it's certainly "easier" for Harvard students than other schools in the following two ways:

1) Our grade cut is lower than all except one or two other schools
2) I have a hunch it's slightly easier in the callback phase once you've cleared the grade/screener hurdle

In terms of median...no idea. Not really relevant for me, I go based upon what our grade cut is (which frankly changes slightly every year, they tell me beforehand). All Ps frankly has no chance for us (sorry).

So to be clear recruiting tells you we are only taking people with 3 Hs or more (or 7 if your W&C or something) and then every interview with a student who has less than that amount is a colossal waste of time? Is that annoying just sitting through interviews that are forgone conclusions?

Thanks for answering the questions.

[Anonymous User]

Yo, Squints Palledorous here. 7H/3P, from CA and looking at CA firms, prefer SF to LA. Definitely litigation over corporate.

A couple concerns:
- I've never formally interviewed for a job before, and I won't be able to do any mocks b/c I arrive back in Cambridge just before EIP (actually even missing the "mandatory" introduction day, which hopefully is no biggie). Is the lack of interview experience problematic? I'd generally consider myself socially adept and able to shoot the breeze pretty well, etc., though I think this may be a different ballgame.
- I have a highly unusual post-college experience, to which people tend to have really polarized reactions: some impressed, some completely put off. I'm quite sure it'll come up in interviews and I'm not certain it'll play to my favor when it does. Does this mean I need to bid more conservatively than my grades would otherwise dictate?



- Squints Palledorous

[Anonymous User]

Yo, Squints Palledorous here. 7H/3P, from CA and looking at CA firms, prefer SF to LA. Definitely litigation over corporate.

A couple concerns:
- I've never formally interviewed for a job before, and I won't be able to do any mocks b/c I arrive back in Cambridge just before EIP (actually even missing the "mandatory" introduction day, which hopefully is no biggie). Is the lack of interview experience problematic? I'd generally consider myself socially adept and able to shoot the breeze pretty well, etc., though I think this may be a different ballgame.
- I have a highly unusual post-college experience, to which people tend to have really polarized reactions: some impressed, some completely put off. I'm quite sure it'll come up in interviews and I'm not certain it'll play to my favor when it does. Does this mean I need to bid more conservatively than my grades would otherwise dictate?



- Squints Palledorous

Should be fine (did you not apply to Quinn?) but if you are worried got into skype and practice taping yourself answering some basic questions Why law? Why LA/SF? Why Lit? What separates you from your classmates?

Tough to say without knowing what the experience is. Something political like being Romney's body man? Or something shitty like repo-ing people? I understand if you don't want to say but without knowing it's hard to answer.

[Anonymous User]

Helpful, thank you. And I'd rather not say specifically, since I'm thinking it would out me. But it was a position with an organization that is high-profile and controversial, and about which people tend to have really sharply contrasting and strongly held views. Generally associated/considered to have the support of the American political right-wing.

ETA: didn't apply to Quinn, I missed their party - I heard afterward that I really missed out and all the partners were shitfaced

- Squints Palledorous

[Anonymous User]

Helpful, thank you. And I'd rather not say specifically, since I'm thinking it would out me. But it was a position with an organization that is high-profile and controversial, and about which people tend to have really sharply contrasting and strongly held views. Generally associated/considered to have the support of the American political right-wing.

ETA: didn't apply to Quinn, I missed their party - I heard afterward that I really missed out and all the partners were shitfaced

- Squints Palledorous

The devil is probably in the details. In general I think political organizations are fine and you can downplay the political aspect and play up your great experience. Firms will want to see professionalism and if you show that then they are much more likely to assume your politics are yours and you will do the job.

An exception would PERHAPS be something like Focus FRC that the SLPC has classified as a hate group or something that is like way anti immigrant, but I won't pretend to know enough to speak to this.

[Morgan12Oak]

You'll be fine. Vast majority of law firms don't care about political stuff like that as long as you don't talk about it in depth. Play on the experience.

Also, just to correct mis-information Focus is not a hate group per SPLC; family research council is, but its independent of Focus.

[Anonymous User]

You'll be fine. Vast majority of law firms don't care about political stuff like that as long as you don't talk about it in depth. Play on the experience.

Also, just to correct mis-information Focus is not a hate group per SPLC; family research council is, but its independent of Focus.

Thanks.

[itbdvorm]

Can I ask, as an actual attorney curious about this thread, how you came about creating this list? Odd to me to see firms like Willkie, Schulte, Milbank, Patterson, Kirkland NY, Kramer in your "Green" Band, firms like Debeoivse and Weil in your "Blue" Band (and Herbert Smith and Seward) and firms like Latham and, to a lesser extent, Cahill in your "Yellow" Band...

Not that anon but as long as you're here want to offer a thought on how much "easier" it is for Harvard students to land a job at your firm versus students at other T14s?
Is the advantage primarily that you will dip a bit lower into the grade pool than at other schools?
What do you view median as?
How do you view someone with all Ps?

Thanks.

So it's certainly "easier" for Harvard students than other schools in the following two ways:

1) Our grade cut is lower than all except one or two other schools
2) I have a hunch it's slightly easier in the callback phase once you've cleared the grade/screener hurdle

In terms of median...no idea. Not really relevant for me, I go based upon what our grade cut is (which frankly changes slightly every year, they tell me beforehand). All Ps frankly has no chance for us (sorry).

So to be clear recruiting tells you we are only taking people with 3 Hs or more (or 7 if your W&C or something) and then every interview with a student who has less than that amount is a colossal waste of time? Is that annoying just sitting through interviews that are forgone conclusions?

Thanks for answering the questions.

Effectively yes to both. If you have 2 Hs, say, and our grade cut is 3 Hs (no idea, guessing higher than that but what do I know), there might be a chance. But you'd need to be really charming (and/or URM), and changes year to year depending on numerous factors. Not sure what your career services tells you about different firms/offices, but pay attention to who actually worked there and be realistic

[Anonymous User]

Just curious, what's a DS, and how does it rank? I'm just reading this out of curiosity

[Person1111]

It is short for a Dean's Scholar Prize, which is the highest grade you can get in a class (like an A/A+). I imagine that most employers view them as better than an H but not quite twice as good as an H (as they functionally are for Latin Honors purposes).

[Blessedassurance]

can we get more bidlists?

[Anonymous User]

can we get more bidlists?

Why don't you post yours.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone shed light on these "offer dinners" that I keep hearing/reading about? Are they kind of like likely letters from college applications where you're basically in and they're already moving onto wooing you, or more like a 1L reception that's wide-open to everyone.

Also, I read on the OCS website that employers aren't even allowed to host events that don't invite EVERYONE. Is this a new change that will lead to no more offer dinners?

--Lollipop

[GertrudePerkins]

Can someone shed light on these "offer dinners" that I keep hearing/reading about? Are they kind of like likely letters from college applications where you're basically in and they're already moving onto wooing you, or more like a 1L reception that's wide-open to everyone.

Also, I read on the OCS website that employers aren't even allowed to host events that don't invite EVERYONE. Is this a new change that will lead to no more offer dinners?

--Lollipop

They're for students who have received offers. It's wooing. And I'm 99.5% sure the "open to everyone" policy does not refer to offer dinners, just to information sessions and general receptions.

[Blessedassurance]

can we get more bidlists?

Why don't you post yours.

i haven't started. you?