NALP Perspectives on Fall 2012 Recruiting Forum

[rad lulz]

I believe what you are saying about cold-offers. However, I saw where the firm I turned down (V100) had +50 laterals last year. So, maybe a cold-offer could be spun into a lateral easier than spinning a no-offer into a lateral. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.

Laterals have skills. Summers and 3Ls don't.

[NYstate]

I believe what you are saying about cold-offers. However, I saw where the firm I turned down (V100) had +50 laterals last year. So, maybe a cold-offer could be spun into a lateral easier than spinning a no-offer into a lateral. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.

What do you mean by laterals? We are talking about 3L hiring as first year associates. I don't believe that there was a firm that had to increase its first year class by 50 people over its regular SA program.

[NinerFan]

I believe what you are saying about cold-offers. However, I saw where the firm I turned down (V100) had +50 laterals last year. So, maybe a cold-offer could be spun into a lateral easier than spinning a no-offer into a lateral. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.

When a firm hires laterals, they're typically hiring mid-level to senior associates, or partners, or of counsels. They're hiring to fill specific needs. A 3L fills no need, other than a 1st year body. You can't analogize this to the lateral market.

[Anonymous User]

This is incredibly anecdotal, but I know someone who got a cold offer and then got a midlaw-type job back in the fall (went from a big market to a much smaller market; and I don't think the second firm is a Vault firm). So while it's probably rare, I at least know of one case where it happened.

I also know of a couple of people who switched firms/got other non-BigLaw jobs, but those were people with offers.

[Robespierre]

The report indicates that the number of SA jobs being offered to 2Ls in the Class of 2014 declined. But could it be that this is offset by the fact that there were fewer 2Ls chasing the offers? I mean, the class of 2014 nationwide was smaller than the class of 2013 by 7.2%. http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... ummary.asp And some leading schools have classes of 2014 that are 10% or more smaller than the class of 2013. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/re ... s-Tracker/ Examples are Berk, Duke, Emory, WUSTL.

Obviously I'm looking hard for a silver lining.

Shouldn't really make a difference. They'd just dip lower in classes.

And firms dipping lower in classes is good news.

I'm just saying that if there are fewer SA jobs available than the previous year by a factor of X, but there are also fewer law students by a factor of X, it's a wash, not a tragedy.

[Sheffield]

I believe what you are saying about cold-offers. However, I saw where the firm I turned down (V100) had +50 laterals last year. So, maybe a cold-offer could be spun into a lateral easier than spinning a no-offer into a lateral. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.

When a firm hires laterals, they're typically hiring mid-level to senior associates, or partners, or of counsels. They're hiring to fill specific needs. A 3L fills no need, other than a 1st year body. You can't analogize this to the lateral market.

Not disagreeing, just making sure we are on the same page. Plus, the firm I turned down sent me their offer after I told them I already had an offer. They said they were sending the offer in case things did not work out (we attributed my firm selection as more of a timing problem).

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[rad lulz]

I believe what you are saying about cold-offers. However, I saw where the firm I turned down (V100) had +50 laterals last year. So, maybe a cold-offer could be spun into a lateral easier than spinning a no-offer into a lateral. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.

When a firm hires laterals, they're typically hiring mid-level to senior associates, or partners, or of counsels. They're hiring to fill specific needs. A 3L fills no need, other than a 1st year body. You can't analogize this to the lateral market.

Not disagreeing, just making sure we are on the same page. Plus, the firm I turned down sent me their offer after I told them I already had an offer. They said they were sending the offer in case things did not work out (we attributed my firm selection as more of a timing problem).

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LOL they didn't mean you could accept your 3L year if you get no-offered.

[Sheffield]

I believe what you are saying about cold-offers. However, I saw where the firm I turned down (V100) had +50 laterals last year. So, maybe a cold-offer could be spun into a lateral easier than spinning a no-offer into a lateral. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.

When a firm hires laterals, they're typically hiring mid-level to senior associates, or partners, or of counsels. They're hiring to fill specific needs. A 3L fills no need, other than a 1st year body. You can't analogize this to the lateral market.

Not disagreeing, just making sure we are on the same page. Plus, the firm I turned down sent me their offer after I told them I already had an offer. They said they were sending the offer in case things did not work out (we attributed my firm selection as more of a timing problem).

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LOL you retard they didn't mean you could accept your 3L year if you get no-offered.

Understood... they just left the possibility open. Are you always so rude... if so, don't blame LS for your endless shortcomings.

[rad lulz]

There bro I fixed it for u

[Sheffield]

Merci — pas de problème.

[Anonymous User]

So, to me it looks like the poll so far says the top of the class thinks things are awesome and everyone else has concerns.

[bowser]

Looking at that NALP chart;

I'm kind of wondering why the % of SA's taking offers has climbed so steadily since the early 90's. It was around 60% then, and is around 85% now. What were those people doing back then other than going to work for the firm they summered at?

[fatduck]

Looking at that NALP chart;

I'm kind of wondering why the % of SA's taking offers has climbed so steadily since the early 90's. It was around 60% then, and is around 85% now. What were those people doing back then other than going to work for the firm they summered at?

probably working for the government or taking jobs with different firms. much easier to do when jobs are a-plenty.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Well, tuition was better then (my law school cost like $7000 a year in 2000; now it's ~$30K), so people who don't want biglaw long-term but do it to pay off their loans could afford to take government/PI jobs without going to biglaw first. (That, and like fatduck said, government was actually hiring, or you could go to other firms.)

[fatduck]

have you ever asked one of your professors for career advice? it always starts with "well, when i graduated i had to decide between starting at a firm, starting in-house, teaching, or going into government. i ended up choosing <whatever> and it worked out pretty well for me."

[NinerFan]

have you ever asked one of your professors for career advice? it always starts with "well, when i graduated i had to decide between starting at a firm, starting in-house, teaching, or going into government. i ended up choosing <whatever> and it worked out pretty well for me."

Sure. And I was told not to worry too much, because even if my firm job didn't work out, there were lots of things I could do. The professor told me about how they decided to work for a few years after their SCOTUS clerkship and then went into academia. Very helpful.

Not.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, that's like the (otherwise very very nice) local legal luminary (also a former SCOTUS clerk) who came to talk to one of my classes - when asked what career advice they'd give us, they said we should be open to the unexpected, because you never know where law will take you, and used the example of when the state AG called up to ask if they'd be Solicitor General (which they'd never ever thought of as a career path). All I could think was, Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on that happening to me...

(TBF, it's not a bad philosophy, but the example wasn't really the best for 2Ls/3Ls trying to START a career.)

[rad lulz]

have you ever asked one of your professors for career advice? it always starts with "well, when i graduated i had to decide between starting at a firm, starting in-house, teaching, or going into government. i ended up choosing <whatever> and it worked out pretty well for me."

One much beloved prof assured me "Oh don't worry, if you don't like the firm you get, I bet you have a great shot at 3L OCI. When I told him that 3L hiring was a huge joke he sounded completely surprised.

Or the similarly helpful "Back when I was applying for clerkships I was really worried because I had all HHs at Boalt, but one P. It worked out okay for me though."

[2LsAPlenty]

"Oh don't worry, if you don't like the firm you get, I bet you have a great shot at 3L OCI." When I told him that 3L hiring was a huge joke he sounded completely surprised.


Not shocker. Think about it. The top students tell their professors where they landed. Everyone else is mostly silent, and as academics, they are largely out of touch anyway.

[Anonymous User]

My school had a program called "Alternate Pathways in Law" where the speaker's path was SCOTUS Clerkship/V10/Facebook General Counsel.

Very helpful.

[rad lulz]

My school had a program called "Alternate Pathways in Law" where the speaker's path was SCOTUS Clerkship/V10/Facebook General Counsel.

Very helpful.

lol, just lol

[LawIdiot86]

My school had a program called "Alternate Pathways in Law" where the speaker's path was SCOTUS Clerkship/V10/Facebook General Counsel.

Very helpful.

It would be amazing if law schools offered actually useful courses like:

"Doc Review 101"
"How to work multiple contract jobs at once without violating the MRPC"
"What exactly is this thing called 'compliance'?"
"Doc Review 201: QC"

[stratocophic]

My school had a program called "Alternate Pathways in Law" where the speaker's path was SCOTUS Clerkship/V10/Facebook General Counsel.

Very helpful.

It would be amazing if law schools offered actually useful courses like:

"Doc Review 101"
"How to work multiple contract jobs at once without violating the MRPC"
"What exactly is this thing called 'compliance'?"
"Doc Review 201: QC"

It'd be a start to link to that "The Bottom Rung" series on YouTube, but that's more helpful than I'd expect most schools to be. HYSCC could provide helpful links to "Living the Dream" instead, I guess

[Anonymous User]

The 82 3L offers include people who had offers and went to higher firms, correct? That seems incredibly low....

[rad lulz]

The 82 3L offers include people who had offers and went to higher firms, correct? That seems incredibly low....

Welcome to the new economy broseph