Recent Grads Forum

[Anonymous User]

Just graduated Chicago Kent. Finished #3 in my class of ~330. I will be heading off to JAG after grad. Since I am prior service, and stayed in the reserves during school, I will start off as an O3 with over 10 years of service for pay purposes. All in, with tax breaks and allowances I should be right around $90k per year. I am hoping to put in enough years to retire and then hopefully transition into a federal gov't job.

I had a full scholarship, worked full time, and collected the GI Bill so financially I am in good shape. Originally, I entered law school with the intent to go into patent law. I wonder if there are a number of other JAGs who have passed the patent bar?

[BarbellDreams]

As far as all this gloom and doom I see on this site way too often, we just had lunch with a 2L making $3,000 a week over the summer. She said $3,000 was the standard summer pay at her firm. How bad can things really be?

Are you dumb? Because you sound dumb.

$3,0777 (or $3,080 depending on how they do the math) is the standard salary for big law firm summer associates. The programs last 8-12 weeks for the most part and result in full time offers of employment at big firms which pay (almost all of them, without variation) $160,000 starting salaries.

There are about 5,000 of those jobs in the country every year.

There are about 45,000 law students.

Outside of those jobs, and a few which are similar but less opulent in smaller legal markets, the market is absolutely awful and there are very few positions anywhere or at any salary.

It's feast or famine. If you wind up at the right school, get the right grades, and do the right things in interviews you have a chance of landing in the small group that gets a terrifically remunerative job after school. If you're part of the majority that don't, your odds of being unemployed - at least in the legal sector - are staggering, and your salary expectations are likely to be one quarter or so of what the big law people are making.

It's systematic and it's documented. There's no room for debate about the numbers, there's no reason to poll the 10 or so actual lawyers on TLS when there's a plethora of data all pointing to the same conclusion available for anyone willing to look at it.

Great post.

I am at a T2 and we have 20 firms coming to OCI all of which have like 2-4 spots (obviously interviewing at other schools outside of mine so who knows how many of those spots are actually going to students from my school). EVERYONE seems to be saying they are ready for OCI (even students at median) and know they are getting a job out of it. Scary how misinformed majority of law students are. I think roughly 25% of students actually know how bad the economy is. If you're at Harvard you'll be fine no matter what economy, but to the vast majority it's an uphill battle.

[Renne Walker]

[---- the market is absolutely awful and there are very few positions anywhere or at any salary. It's systematic and it's documented. There's no room for debate about the numbers, there's no reason to poll the 10 or so actual lawyers on TLS when there's a plethora of data all pointing to the same conclusion available for anyone willing to look at it.

Let me see if I can slice and dice this for you, without being rude. Pay attention.

Score high enough in the LSAT to get accepted into HYS, T-6 or T-14. Done.

Take a seat at the table and drop a $250K debt note into the pot. Done.

If your class size is 450, score as good as 225 others as to be ranked in the top half of your class. Better yet, aim higher-top 10%. If you are in the top 90 of your class, the end result is earning a minimum of $2M over ten years. Awaiting 2014 confirmation.

In ref to you usual multifarious babble on the falling sky theory, keep in mind that Polls are interesting and entertaining. So, just Chill.

[bk1]

Take a seat at the table and drop a $250K debt note into the pot. Done.

If your class size is 450, score as good as 225 others as to be ranked in the top half of your class. Better yet, aim higher-top 10%. If you are in the top 90 of your class, the end result is earning a minimum of $2M over ten years. Awaiting 2014 confirmation.

There is totally not a possibility that you'll end up in the bottom half of the class and come out with $250k debt and no chance at biglaw...

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

[---- the market is absolutely awful and there are very few positions anywhere or at any salary. It's systematic and it's documented. There's no room for debate about the numbers, there's no reason to poll the 10 or so actual lawyers on TLS when there's a plethora of data all pointing to the same conclusion available for anyone willing to look at it.

Let me see if I can slice and dice this for you, without being rude. Pay attention.

Score high enough in the LSAT to get accepted into HYS, T-6 or T-14. Done.

Take a seat at the table and drop a $250K debt note into the pot. Done.

If your class size is 450, score as good as 225 others as to be ranked in the top half of your class. Better yet, aim higher-top 10%. If you are in the top 90 of your class, the end result is earning a minimum of $2M over ten years. Awaiting 2014 confirmation.

In ref to you usual multifarious babble on the falling sky theory, keep in mind that Polls are interesting and entertaining. So, just Chill.

You're attacking the wrong poster if you're looking to lay someone out as a doom and gloomer. TSL has been arguably the most helpful contributor to this forum over the summer in many, many different subject areas.

There is nothing 'falling sky' about presenting true numbers. What is moronic, on the other hand, is acting like a poll of 50 recent graduates on this website is in any way representative of the overall employment picutre.

tl;dr- go to school and get a clue before arguing about job prospects.

[bk1]

Crazy as it is, they tell me it's dependent upon more than grades - prior WE and personality plays a pretty big role, too. As a straight-through, I'm a little better than top 20% at my t14 and I'm still shitting bricks.

Of course personality matters. But I would hazard that K-JD's make up the majority of the T14.

[Renne Walker]

There is totally not a possibility that you'll end up in the bottom half of the class and come out with $250k debt and no chance at biglaw...

LOL. I wish. Someone is going to be ranked last. When/if that happens I will feel rightfully entitled to join your gloom and doom gang. Trust me, I am not blasé about owing $$, I wish I had scored well enough for a T-6 full ride, but that did not happen nor did dad give me a Bugatti as a graduation gift. All one can do is, just play the hand babe

[bk1]

LOL. I wish. Someone is going to be ranked last. When/if that happens I will feel rightfully entitled to join your gloom and doom gang. Trust me, I am not blasé about owing $$, I wish I had scored well enough for a T-6 full ride, but that did not happen nor did dad give me a Bugatti as a graduation gift. All one can do is, just play the hand babe

I'm not saying you shouldn't play the hand you're dealt. I am saying you should be realistic that you have a pretty high chance of being fucked.

[Grizz]

keep in mind that Polls are interesting and entertaining.

not yours though

[Kendi]

I agree with some of the earlier posts. I like this poll. If we didn't have annoying people intentionally trying to mess it up, I would be very interested to see how the recent graduates job placement was really going.

Also, to the people who really believe that only "top schools's" students post in this forum, you're obviously not paying attention. I'm from a tier-4 school and I have a job offer at a large local firm. I'll make 80K-ish a year to start, and see what happens from there.

It's interesting to see (at least where the polls were when I saw them) that 25ish percent were in each "under 70k", "over 160k", and "jobless".

I like this poll too. I don't get why some people feel the need to rant because this poll is not in some way "official." Pleeeeeze. Call the ABA and have it sanctioned as “official” so they will be happy!

Hey Rad. . . R U loving the FL sunshine today? 100° heat index. Feels that way even after getting out of the pool!

[Grizz]

Hey Rad. . . R U loving the FL sunshine today? 100° heat index. Feels that way even after getting out of the pool!

It is miserable. I have been inside all day in the AC doing my OCI bids. Welcome to your future.

[AreJay711]

Hey Rad. . . R U loving the FL sunshine today? 100° heat index. Feels that way even after getting out of the pool!

It is miserable. I have been inside all day in the AC doing my OCI bids. Welcome to your future.

Wow, a 100 degree heat index must be nice.

--ImageRemoved--

[Kendi]

Hey Rad. . . R U loving the FL sunshine today? 100° heat index. Feels that way even after getting out of the pool!

It is miserable. I have been inside all day in the AC doing my OCI bids. Welcome to your future.

OCI bids! Well, GO YOU! From what you said earlier, OCI is something I will never have to worry about. P~~~~~~~~. Time to go find a nice cool breeze.

[Renne Walker]

The data is out there, in the NALP report, the NYT article, and so on. The thing is, lots of people ignore or rationalize this data because they do not like what it tells them.

OK, you got me to bite. I read the NALP report (undeniably a downer) a NYT article and several blogs castigating law schools in general. Nearly everything I read was, to say the least, discouraging…. even if you land a $160K position, you will still be miserable. Make no mistake about it, due to its always negative slant, this was like drinking nasty tasting Kool Aid. Kool Aid for the disheartened.

I now understand why some are up in arms when they see a survey reporting 40% of today’s grads are landing $100K salaries and only 23% are still looking, rather than 35%. Got it.

On the other hand I never could find any specific info on T-14 grads. I saw one blog asserting a point-of-view that the T-14 was the equivalent of a PHD Law Degree, Tier 1 Masters, and on down the line to a high school law degree (it was couched in humor, sort of). The blog made some good points, if I see it again, I’ll link it.

Let’s hope that in 2014 we’re not looking back at 2011, as The Good Ole Days.

I also looked to see if TLS had a position on any of this, I could not find a thing. Not even sure who owns or runs this place. Someone with a legal passion, an ABA affiliation, a pastime for Mark Zuckerberg? Just curious.

[Kendi]

Forget about all that minutia. It will work out. Always does.

[Grizz]

Forget about all that minutia. It will work out. Always does.

45,000 grads, 30,000 legal jobs. It's not gonna work out for somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 people.

[merc280]

Could it be that most of those 15K grads are at the bottom half of their class at a low ranked school?

[thesealocust]

Could it be that most of those 15K grads are at the bottom half of their class at a low ranked school?

There are 30,000 legal jobs open to new grads every year. If your argument is that you're more likely to get one if you have strong credentials, then I applaud your ability to tautologize.

[ndirish2010]

There are also way more graduates of T3 and T4 schools than T1 schools. I mean, Cooley is the biggest school in the country.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

A sizeable chunk of those 30,000 available jobs are also pure dog crap, sub 40k, sans benefits gigs. I would guess around 5,000 of them.

[lawgod]

On the other hand, all thirty-two of your posts have been awful (including when you told people that your reference to "T4" was "Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Columbia" as opposed to "Tier 4").

Goodbye, troll. Enjoy your ban.

I actually saw that and was disappointed that I hadn't thought of it myself.

[Kendi]

Forget about all that minutia. It will work out. Always does.

45,000 grads, 30,000 legal jobs. It's not gonna work out for somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 people.

Ahhh, c’mon. As they say on campus “Reach Higher.” Think of the 5,000 who are picking out drapes for their new Big Law office, not the 15,000 who wouldn’t be hired even if there were 60,000 openings. Have you actually spoken to some of the classmates you went to school with?

More importantly, keep the suntan lotion handy

[Renne Walker]

We are working on our numbers for fall 2012 now and making call back decisions for rising 3Ls based on real time client demand.

In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.

Yes. I anticipate hiring more this year than last. This is playing out on the lateral side as well. In the past 2 months, we have hired 8 new laterals and are looking for several more.

Happily promoting optimism. . . just hope the LawFirmRecruiter leaves a few openings for 2014!

[Kilpatrick]

I knew as soon as she posted that how you would read it.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Perhaps Renee should check out the UVA thread.