UVa OGI 2011 thread Forum

[Cavalier]

That sounded confusing. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going to go for DC (or, say, Chicago), your backup (where you should spend at least half your bids unless your grades are exceptional) should be NY, not a secondary market.

[Anonymous User]

New grades up.

Now that I have all my grades, I have to poke around to see how I should organize my bids. I will be using almost all my bids on NYC. My GPA is hovering just under a 3.6, which I believe is around top 15%ish. Are places like Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Gibson Dunn, etc at least somewhat reasonable targets, or should I consider those more as reaches?

If it matters, my first semester was much better than my second (top 5%/top 1/3).

[Anonymous User]

I remember seeing this on a UVA Law blog, but now I don't know where it is. Does anyone have a link or know what the GPA/percentages were from last year? Like -- what GPA is what percent in the class?

[Morgan12Oak]

3.41 is top third
3.48 is top quarter

The above two are given by CSO
The following are ones I've heard but I believe are only estimates:

3.58 is top 15%
3.68 is top 10%
3.73 is roughly top 7-8%

[Anonymous User]

I remember seeing this on a UVA Law blog, but now I don't know where it is. Does anyone have a link or know what the GPA/percentages were from last year? Like -- what GPA is what percent in the class?

Copy/pasted from the blog. They're rough, but using some simple math they check out pretty well.


Top 10%: 3.65
Top 25%: 3.48
Top 33%: 3.42
Median: 3.3
Bottom 33%: 3.18
Bottom 25%: 3.12
Bottom 10%: 2.95

[Anonymous User]

Got it -- thanks!

[Anonymous User]

New grades up.

Now that I have all my grades, I have to poke around to see how I should organize my bids. I will be using almost all my bids on NYC. My GPA is hovering just under a 3.6, which I believe is around top 15%ish. Are places like Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Gibson Dunn, etc at least somewhat reasonable targets, or should I consider those more as reaches?

If it matters, my first semester was much better than my second (top 5%/top 1/3).

Different Anon but I'm in the same situation. Different grade trend, mine went up, but I don't think that will really matter for OGIs (I may be wrong). We have the same grades though and that's what seems to matter. Obviously, I'm curious as to the advice people in our situation will get. I am interested in a secondary market too, but will probably mass mail it before OGIs and then spend all my bids, more or less, on NYC.

Standing by for advice from those more knowledgeable than me.

[Anonymous User]

Finished with a 3.2 even now trying to figure out what to do for OGIs. My plan as it stands is to bid all NYC firms with large summer classes. Is this my best chance of getting anything out of OGI? Should class size be my primary focus? Secondary markets without ties seems like wastes of time.

[Anonymous User]

New grades up.

Now that I have all my grades, I have to poke around to see how I should organize my bids. I will be using almost all my bids on NYC. My GPA is hovering just under a 3.6, which I believe is around top 15%ish. Are places like Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Gibson Dunn, etc at least somewhat reasonable targets, or should I consider those more as reaches?

If it matters, my first semester was much better than my second (top 5%/top 1/3).

Different Anon but I'm in the same situation. Different grade trend, mine went up, but I don't think that will really matter for OGIs (I may be wrong). We have the same grades though and that's what seems to matter. Obviously, I'm curious as to the advice people in our situation will get. I am interested in a secondary market too, but will probably mass mail it before OGIs and then spend all my bids, more or less, on NYC.

Standing by for advice from those more knowledgeable than me.

Another anon - anon3? and I've got a similar situation. Did slightly worse than you two - slightly outside top third first semester, and slightly inside top 10% this semester. 3.54 overall. Think I may be interested in something corporate side, but am not yet sure. Would like to end up in either California or NYC.

[Anonymous User]

Another anon here with the exact same situation.. kind of. Right around 3.6, slighty higher second semester than first. Want all NYC... from the looks of the way this is going... NYC looks tough lol.

[Anonymous User]

Jesus, somebody post a chances thread in the employment subforum.

[Anonymous User]

Grades round to the nearest .01? Ex: 3.5666 = 3.57? Or no?

[Anonymous User]

Grades round to the nearest .01? Ex: 3.5666 = 3.57? Or no?

I wish, but I don't think so. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, though.

[Cavalier]

Grades round to the nearest .01? Ex: 3.5666 = 3.57? Or no?

I wish, but I don't think so. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, though.

I think it's totally legitimate to list your GPA as rounded to the nearest .01. Listing it in the thousandths looks dumb, especially if your undergraduate GPA is listed in the hundredths.

[vamedic03]

Another anon here with the exact same situation.. kind of. Right around 3.6, slighty higher second semester than first. Want all NYC... from the looks of the way this is going... NYC looks tough lol.

You're fine for NYC... CSM or SullCrom would probably be quite a stretch, but otherwise, I imagine you'd be fine.

[vamedic03]

New grades up.

Now that I have all my grades, I have to poke around to see how I should organize my bids. I will be using almost all my bids on NYC. My GPA is hovering just under a 3.6, which I believe is around top 15%ish. Are places like Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Gibson Dunn, etc at least somewhat reasonable targets, or should I consider those more as reaches?

If it matters, my first semester was much better than my second (top 5%/top 1/3).

You should be fine for NYC. You're in play for the vast majority of NYC firms. Yes, CSM and SullCrom would probably be out of reach, but you'll be in play most everywhere else. A lot of it will come down to interviews, prior work experience, etc. But, being top 10-15% is a great place to be at UVA.

[Anonymous User]

This might be obvious, but how much do grades matter for OGI? Are they the whole deciding factor, basically, if you have either great or terrible grades? Or is it more of a combination of grades and your interview and resume?

[Anonymous User]

Okay, so the 3.6 guys are fine. What about the those of us with 3.5s?

[Anonymous User]

3.407 - came straight from undergrad, liberal arts major. originally from the south, I feel like I could live anywhere.

Atlanta looked pretty rough w small class sizes. Planning on bidding NYC and Atlanta... any input??

Should I mail before OGI? Will grade drop matter (was 3.59 after 1st semester)?

i'll be anon2000 ???

[Anonymous User]

how bad does it look if you were top third first semester, bottom 10% second semester, and end up slightly above a 3.2? i almost feel like it's worse than getting the same 3.2 consistently both semesters, like it implies mental instability or something.

also, drop out now if a salary between 90-160k is the only thing that would make finishing law school financially worthwhile to me?

(if anyone is curious, no dead family members, and no change in approach or effort either)

[Cavalier]

This might be obvious, but how much do grades matter for OGI? Are they the whole deciding factor, basically, if you have either great or terrible grades? Or is it more of a combination of grades and your interview and resume?

They are the most critical factor for landing screening interviews, generally. Sometimes great grades plus a halfway decent start to an interview will guarantee you a callback, and sometimes terrible grades preclude the possibility of a callback despite a great interview. But other than that, being a strong interviewer and having a good resume are key.

Okay, so the 3.6 guys are fine. What about the those of us with 3.5s?

You're fine, only Cravath and S&C are off limits as far as NY firms go. You can't coast (no one can), but if you prepare adewquately, bid wisely and interview decently, you should be fine.

[Anonymous User]

Straight thru from undergrad, 3.66.

DC?

ATL?

NYC as back-up?

Advice?

[thesealocust]

(1) I'm going to be a huge spoil sport and throw this out there: There is very limited directed / unique advice to be given with respect to chances or individual bidding strategies. Each firm hires hires a small number of grads (I think we top out at 10 or so summers at any given firm, but we send people to firms up and down the rankings and coast to coast to abroad). Outside of broad useful information (DC is hard, NYC is relatively easy, ties are important, work experience helps people outperform those who went straight through, do your research, focus on firm size and historical class size when possible - a lot of people don't look and waste bids on tiny firms) lots of people should be looking at largely identical bid lists. With 50 bids somebody looking at NYC with a 4.0 is just not going to be bidding THAT much differently than somebody with a 3.4. The former will likely have more luck and a few more firms to look at, but at the bidding stage there's only so much strategy you can throw at a process that gives everyone 50 bids and lets firm pre-select many of their interview slots.

So ask, and listen, but don't expect much beyond generic advice about researching firms and traps for the unwary.

(2) With respect to grades, they're probably the most important factor right now, but they are not dispositive. Some great GPAs will get in trouble and some mediocre or downright bad GPAs will pull through. Do your research, prepare for interviews, and maximize whatever situation you happen to find yourself in.

(3) I think it makes sense to participate in OGI even if you're interested in public service. A summer at a firm, especially with no aspirations of getting an offer, is an incredible experience one should try to experience if only for the hilarious social phenomenon that it is. Also, the firm hiring time line is MASSIVELY faster than the public interest time line, and the NALP guidelines let you hold one firm offer open while looking for PI. You have literally nothing to lose, and plenty of firms will be happy to pay you 3 grand per week, take you on lavish outings, cover travel expenses, and then give you piles and piles of pro bono work to do. Seriously, there is never ending amount of pro bono for firm summers to. Help people and get paid! Or hell, do the interviews to make sure your decision NOT to work at the firm is an informed one. A bunch of your tuition dollars go towards Dean Donovan's OGI Extravaganza, I say take part!

(4) CSO has some good reasons to worry about what people would do with firm data if they have it, but it's still seriously obnoxious. Make sure you at least call in; they're happy to provide advice over the phone.

[vamedic03]

A couple thoughts to add to thesealocust's insightful post:

1) Research the firms - there are significant differences between the firms. But, realize that you won't get a real good sense of the firms until OGI and callbacks.

2) Reach out to people you know who are summering at various firms. This is particularly valuable at the point of trying to choose between offers.

3) Remember to be enthusiastic and remember that no matter how good you are, you won't get a callback from every firm.

4) Unless your GPA is > 3.8, you should be mailing firms outside of OGI. Even if you have a GPA >3.8, you should still probably target some firms that don't come to OGI.

5) Make sure to use every bid and use every screening interview.

6) If you are lucky enough to have more interview offers than interview slots, interview at every firm you would want to work at and don't try to have 'safety firms.'

[Anonymous User]

3.44 (assuming B+'s in the two classes for which I'm still waiting for grades)

Only interested in secondary markets (I have a family, and I think that the work/life/disposable income balance in NYC is idiotic), particularly the following (in more or less this order):
Texas
Vegas
San Diego
Orange County
Denver
Phoenix
Atlanta

Significant ties all over the West (read: lived west of the Continental Divide, in multiple states, all but the first and last year of my life). No major ties to Texas, but I've researched things well enough to tell what I think is a pretty compelling story of why I'd like to move my family there permanently.

Any thoughts on strategy?