. Forum

[spondee]

Several people have dropped numbers roughly around the 70% to 80% for NYU's EIW or OCI. How am I supposed to reconcile those numbers with the NLJ250 which shows NYU at roughly 50%? Is this just self-selection? Where are those graduates who got an SA position going (it's not clerkships or PI because those numbers don't appear to have increased substantially)?

Both NLJ and OCI numbers are accurate. They're just capturing different things.

1. Different years. 70% for OCI 2009, class of 2011; 82% for OCI 2010, class of 2012; and latest NLJ250 numbers are from class of 2010.

2. Different denominators. NLJ looks at percentage of student body. OCI looks at percentage of EWI participants.

3. Different sets. NLJ will exclude boutiques that may've interviewed at EIW. And students that clerk will be included in OCI numbers, but excluded from NLJ #s. Also some people that go govt/PI after school might participate in EIW and receive offers (to be safe) before securing govt/PI offer later in the semester.

[Renzo]

Several people have dropped numbers roughly around the 70% to 80% for NYU's EIW or OCI. How am I supposed to reconcile those numbers with the NLJ250 which shows NYU at roughly 50%? Is this just self-selection? Where are those graduates who got an SA position going (it's not clerkships or PI because those numbers don't appear to have increased substantially)?

Both NLJ and OCI numbers are accurate. They're just capturing different things.

1. Different years. 70% for OCI 2009, class of 2011; 82% for OCI 2010, class of 2012; and latest NLJ250 numbers are from class of 2010.

2. Different denominators. NLJ looks at percentage of student body. OCI looks at percentage of EWI participants.

3. Different sets. NLJ will exclude boutiques that may've interviewed at EIW. And students that clerk will be included in OCI numbers, but excluded from NLJ #s. Also some people that go govt/PI after school might participate in EIW and receive offers (to be safe) before securing govt/PI offer later in the semester.

All of this, and there are some students who take SA jobs for the summer cash and don't go back. I know two from my class who are going to firms for the summer and are simultaneously working on something else for post-graduation (both actually want politics, but of different sorts).

[XxSpyKEx]

Several people have dropped numbers roughly around the 70% to 80% for NYU's EIW or OCI. How am I supposed to reconcile those numbers with the NLJ250 which shows NYU at roughly 50%? Is this just self-selection? Where are those graduates who got an SA position going (it's not clerkships or PI because those numbers don't appear to have increased substantially)?

Both NLJ and OCI numbers are accurate. They're just capturing different things.

1. Different years. 70% for OCI 2009, class of 2011; 82% for OCI 2010, class of 2012; and latest NLJ250 numbers are from class of 2010.

2. Different denominators. NLJ looks at percentage of student body. OCI looks at percentage of EWI participants.

3. Different sets. NLJ will exclude boutiques that may've interviewed at EIW. And students that clerk will be included in OCI numbers, but excluded from NLJ #s. Also some people that go govt/PI after school might participate in EIW and receive offers (to be safe) before securing govt/PI offer later in the semester.

All of this, and there are some students who take SA jobs for the summer cash and don't go back. I know two from my class who are going to firms for the summer and are simultaneously working on something else for post-graduation (both actually want politics, but of different sorts).

All of this, plus the grimmer side- a ton of people from class of 2010 didn’t get offers (like nearly a 1/3 of the SAs across the board didn’t get offers), and then there are all the people who got deferred a year (not sure if those people are included or not in the NLJ250 stats). C/o 2010 probably had a better percentage of SA offers from OCI than c/o 2012 (they did their OCI in fall 2008, and firms didn’t seem to realize just how bad things were really going to get until after that).

[Stanislaw Carter]

All of this, plus the grimmer side- a ton of people from class of 2010 didn’t get offers (like nearly a 1/3 of the SAs across the board didn’t get offers), and then there are all the people who got deferred a year (not sure if those people are included or not in the NLJ250 stats).

Memories here run short. People think the deferrals pipeline was cleared up by drain-o. Nope. It was still pretty clogged as of January 2011, and plenty of class of 2011s are starting in January 2012 or later.

[Renzo]

All of this, plus the grimmer side- a ton of people from class of 2010 didn’t get offers (like nearly a 1/3 of the SAs across the board didn’t get offers), and then there are all the people who got deferred a year (not sure if those people are included or not in the NLJ250 stats).

Memories here run short. People think the deferrals pipeline was cleared up by drain-o. Nope. It was still pretty clogged as of January 2011, and plenty of class of 2011s are starting in January 2012 or later.

Really? I haven't talked to anyone who's graduating now and has been deferred.

[Stanislaw Carter]

Really? I haven't talked to anyone who's graduating now and has been deferred.

Didn't you see that abovethelaw open thread?

Skadden, Shearman, Weil, DLA, and a few others are starting the class of 2011 next year.

[Renzo]

Really? I haven't talked to anyone who's graduating now and has been deferred.

Didn't you see that abovethelaw open thread?

Skadden, Shearman, Weil, DLA, and a few others are starting the class of 2011 next year.

Naw, I only read that shit when it's personally embarrassing to someone (nude pics, scandalous reply-all, etc.). It looks like (from your list) that the backlog is at firms that weren't as aggressive at downsizing, which would make sense I guess.

[Stanislaw Carter]

that the backlog is at firms that weren't as aggressive at downsizing, which would make sense I guess.

idk. I feel like all of them stealth-pwned a lot of people.

[Renzo]

that the backlog is at firms that weren't as aggressive at downsizing, which would make sense I guess.

idk. I feel like all of them stealth-pwned a lot of people.

It's hard to say. Firms are always conducting "stealth" layoffs; it's part of the leveraged business model. So there's no doubt people were being let go by the "no layoff" firms, and probably at a rate somewhat higher than normal, if for no other reason than under-performers became more underperforming when there was no work. But, there's really no way to know how much of this was normal-ish attrition v. real layoff-layoffs.

[Anonymous User]

...

[Anonymous User]

Median is probably more like 3.27-3.3.

And you should probably take that down--that's the exact kind of information that, if accurate, can screw people over.

[Stanford4Me]

Median is probably more like 3.27-3.3.

And you should probably take that down--that's the exact kind of information that, if accurate, can screw people over.

Yeah, that's the exact information they were telling us not to divulge. To each their own....I guess.

[LjakW]

Where did you get this data from? Strike-a-Match did not discuss info like this last year. Do I have to ask an OCS counselor?>

[ResolutePear]

I was looking forward to something totally different when coming into this thread.

Disappointment. All around.

[BruceWayne]

When I see this type of information and compare it to other schools data, it quickly becomes apparent that this website drastically overstates the differences in schools. Honestly, it looks like a lot of these firms require about the same GPA from any top 14 school that isn't name Harvard, Yale ,or Stanford. And for many of the extremely selective firms you don't even see a big GPA difference there. If this NYU data is really true people should choose Penn, UVA, or Michigan with a large scholarship over NYU every time. Even if they want to work in NYC. Regardless of which of the schools they go to, they will need about the same GPA to get these jobs.

[Anonymous User]

nestly, it looks like a lot of these firms require about the same GPA from any top 14 school that isn't name Harvard, Yale ,or Stanford. And for many of the extremely selective firms you don't even see a big GPA difference there.

A 3.64 at NYU is definitely not top 10%, and a 3.64 is definitely around top 10% at Michigan. Huge difference.

Also, when firms like Cleary, S&C, and nearly every other V10 have some 20-30 spots year after year for NYU students, and maybe some 3-4 spots for Michigan students, it's clear which school has the advantage.

[Anonymous User]

nestly, it looks like a lot of these firms require about the same GPA from any top 14 school that isn't name Harvard, Yale ,or Stanford. And for many of the extremely selective firms you don't even see a big GPA difference there.

A 3.64 at NYU is definitely not top 10%, and a 3.64 is definitely around top 10% at Michigan. Huge difference.

Also, when firms like Cleary, S&C, and nearly every other V10 have some 20-30 spots year after year for NYU students, and maybe some 3-4 spots for Michigan students, it's clear which school has the advantage.

Selection bias says hi!

[Anonymous User]

Selection bias says hi!

0L/1L says hi!

Seriously, the V10 NYC offices send a whole team of partners and associates, generally have two days of interviews and almost a hundred interview slots. They'll send maybe 2 partners max to recruit at MVB and will interview way fewer students. I strongly doubt more MVB students would get offers if they interviewed.

And aside from that, the V10 just has higher quotas for Columbia, NYU, Harvard than they do for MVPB. Common knowledge.

[vamedic03]

Selection bias says hi!

0L/1L says hi!

Seriously, the V10 NYC offices send a whole team of partners and associates, generally have two days of interviews and almost a hundred interview slots. They'll send maybe 2 partners max to recruit at MVB and will interview way fewer students. I strongly doubt more MVB students would get offers if they interviewed.

And aside from that, the V10 just has higher quotas for Columbia, NYU, Harvard than they do for MVPB. Common knowledge.

Seriously you're wrong. Clearly you don't go to MVPB or else you would know that V10's send way, way more than 'maybe 2 partners max.'

So, how about you:

(a) Stop posting unfounded BS, and

(b) Stop posting unfounded BS while anon.

[Renzo]

When I see this type of information and compare it to other schools data, it quickly becomes apparent that this website drastically overstates the differences in schools. Honestly, it looks like a lot of these firms require about the same GPA from any top 14 school that isn't name Harvard, Yale ,or Stanford. And for many of the extremely selective firms you don't even see a big GPA difference there. If this NYU data is really true people should choose Penn, UVA, or Michigan with a large scholarship over NYU every time. Even if they want to work in NYC. Regardless of which of the schools they go to, they will need about the same GPA to get these jobs.

To be fair, when you see random patterns in clouds or tea leaves you see a reason not to go to NYU.

[DeweyDell]

Median is probably more like 3.27-3.3.

And you should probably take that down--that's the exact kind of information that, if accurate, can screw people over.

Yeah, that's the exact information they were telling us not to divulge. To each their own....I guess.

Can the mods remove this data? OCS told us that exactly this leakage (firm gpa averages from eiw orientation) caused several firms to decrease offer rates to NYU students in years past and causes OCS to be hesitant about releasing gpa information to students at all. So this info getting out could 1) lead firms to get sensitive about their comparative exclusivity, resulting in fewer NYU offers and 2) lead OCS to withhold that info in future years, leading to less educated EIW bidding, leading to (you got it) fewer offers.

[Anonymous User]

Seriously you're wrong. Clearly you don't go to MVPB or else you would know that V10's send way, way more than 'maybe 2 partners max.'

I'm posting anon because I go to NYU and I don't want that to be associated with my actual TLS screen-name.

Even if the firm sends more than 2 partners, the quotas are higher and they are just generally way more interview slots for Columbia and NYU. I say this having spoken to my friend at Michigan who was bidding, and from knowledge about my V10.

But you have a habit of acting like you know stuff around here. It's fun to read and watch.

[aliarrow]

I was looking forward to something totally different when coming into this thread.

Disappointment. All around.

[vamedic03]

Seriously you're wrong. Clearly you don't go to MVPB or else you would know that V10's send way, way more than 'maybe 2 partners max.'

I'm posting anon because I go to NYU and I don't want that to be associated with my actual TLS screen-name.

Even if the firm sends more than 2 partners, the quotas are higher and they are just generally way more interview slots for Columbia and NYU. I say this having spoken to my friend at Michigan who was bidding, and from knowledge about my V10.

But you have a habit of acting like you know stuff around here. It's fun to read and watch.

(1) You go to NYU, yet you claim to have some sort of specialized knowledge about V10 hiring practices at MVP.

(2) I go to UVA and have been through OCI. I, like you, do not know the quotas. But, I certainly can count interview slots and firm presence. There are certainly more than 2 people recruiting from each of the V10 at UVA.

(3) You haven't used the anonymous feature for anything other than:

(a) engaging in an ad hominem attack, and

(b) making blanket false statements about MVP.

So, how about you man up and post under your screen name?

[vanwinkle]

I'm posting anon because I go to NYU and I don't want that to be associated with my actual TLS screen-name.

You can stay anon this time, but if you make posts like that again I'm going to out you, whether you identify your school or not. I'm watching you closely, stop abusing the anon feature.

Please read: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=130748