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[apropos]

Federal Public Defenders don't hire entry-level attorneys anywhere in the country. You'll need at least 5 years of experience in the less desirable areas, and more in bigger cities.

Incorrect. Federal Defenders of San Diego is the only one that does, and they make new entry level hires pretty much every year. Don't make blanket statements unless you definitely know what you're talking about.

Dude, chill. I've never seen an entry-level job on the fd.ord website, and an attorney I work with confirmed that. If the San Diego FPD does hire entry-level attorneys, great, but there's no need to get all huffy.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Since the Federal Defenders of San Diego work mainly in immigration cases, is there a more common route to becoming an attorney there? Does anyone know (for non-entry-level) if they hire primarily from PD offices or from more immigration based firms or.. ?

[00TREX00]

___

[leobowski]

Aight, sorry. But you directly contradicted me, and I have very strong info on this from career services, attorneys I've worked with, and PD career guides I've read.

Anyway, 100% true that pretty much every federal public defender does not hire anyone without some real solid experience.

OK well my bad if I was unknowingly spreading misinformation. I think I could say pretty confidently that San Diego FPD is the only one that does entry-level hires in the country. Props to anyone who gets a job there straight out of law school.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Lots of FPDs come from local offices and a lot come from private practice. There are too many factors that go into hiring to really give a definite answer. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get some battle wounds at the local level though. The level of trial experience you'd get at a local PD's office would be an asset.

[Anonymous User]

Aight, sorry. But you directly contradicted me, and I have very strong info on this from career services, attorneys I've worked with, and PD career guides I've read.

Anyway, 100% true that pretty much every federal public defender does not hire anyone without some real solid experience.

OK well my bad if I was unknowingly spreading misinformation. I think I could say pretty confidently that San Diego FPD is the only one that does entry-level hires in the country. Props to anyone who gets a job there straight out of law school.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Lots of FPDs come from local offices and a lot come from private practice. There are too many factors that go into hiring to really give a definite answer. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get some battle wounds at the local level though. The level of trial experience you'd get at a local PD's office would be an asset.

FYI, I work at the federal defenders for a large city, and can definitely say that people are hired out of law school. Not as assistant federal defenders, mind you, but as research and writing attorneys.

[chicoalto0649]

Aight, sorry. But you directly contradicted me, and I have very strong info on this from career services, attorneys I've worked with, and PD career guides I've read.

Anyway, 100% true that pretty much every federal public defender does not hire anyone without some real solid experience.

OK well my bad if I was unknowingly spreading misinformation. I think I could say pretty confidently that San Diego FPD is the only one that does entry-level hires in the country. Props to anyone who gets a job there straight out of law school.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Lots of FPDs come from local offices and a lot come from private practice. There are too many factors that go into hiring to really give a definite answer. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get some battle wounds at the local level though. The level of trial experience you'd get at a local PD's office would be an asset.

FYI, I work at the federal defenders for a large city, and can definitely say that people are hired out of law school. Not as assistant federal defenders, mind you, but as research and writing attorneys.

If one is hired as a research and writing attorney, how likely would it be a few years down the road for those folks to get court room experience or "battle scars."

[Anonymous User]

Aight, sorry. But you directly contradicted me, and I have very strong info on this from career services, attorneys I've worked with, and PD career guides I've read.

Anyway, 100% true that pretty much every federal public defender does not hire anyone without some real solid experience.

OK well my bad if I was unknowingly spreading misinformation. I think I could say pretty confidently that San Diego FPD is the only one that does entry-level hires in the country. Props to anyone who gets a job there straight out of law school.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Lots of FPDs come from local offices and a lot come from private practice. There are too many factors that go into hiring to really give a definite answer. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get some battle wounds at the local level though. The level of trial experience you'd get at a local PD's office would be an asset.

FYI, I work at the federal defenders for a large city, and can definitely say that people are hired out of law school. Not as assistant federal defenders, mind you, but as research and writing attorneys.

If one is hired as a research and writing attorney, how likely would it be a few years down the road for those folks to get court room experience or "battle scars."

R&W attorneys accompany AFD's to court, but don't generally do the arguing. Most of the AFD's in my office cut their teeth at the state PD's before switching to federal.

[DerrickRose]

I am a PD intern in a smallish county in Illinois. I would be happy to answer any questions, though I don't know the salaries of anyone in our office, so don't bother asking that.

[chicoalto0649]

I am a PD intern in a smallish county in Illinois. I would be happy to answer any questions, though I don't know the salaries of anyone in our office, so don't bother asking that.

Why don't you get around to asking your colleagues than pass along the good word

[A'nold]

Aight, sorry. But you directly contradicted me, and I have very strong info on this from career services, attorneys I've worked with, and PD career guides I've read.

Anyway, 100% true that pretty much every federal public defender does not hire anyone without some real solid experience.

OK well my bad if I was unknowingly spreading misinformation. I think I could say pretty confidently that San Diego FPD is the only one that does entry-level hires in the country. Props to anyone who gets a job there straight out of law school.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Lots of FPDs come from local offices and a lot come from private practice. There are too many factors that go into hiring to really give a definite answer. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get some battle wounds at the local level though. The level of trial experience you'd get at a local PD's office would be an asset.

FYI, I work at the federal defenders for a large city, and can definitely say that people are hired out of law school. Not as assistant federal defenders, mind you, but as research and writing attorneys.

So, these PD's have researchers and writers under them and all they do is the fun stuff? Sounds like a dream job.

[Anonymous User]

Aight, sorry. But you directly contradicted me, and I have very strong info on this from career services, attorneys I've worked with, and PD career guides I've read.

Anyway, 100% true that pretty much every federal public defender does not hire anyone without some real solid experience.

OK well my bad if I was unknowingly spreading misinformation. I think I could say pretty confidently that San Diego FPD is the only one that does entry-level hires in the country. Props to anyone who gets a job there straight out of law school.

Well anyways, it's good to know that it's not at all the norm.
So I imagine the idea is to start more local and move up?

Lots of FPDs come from local offices and a lot come from private practice. There are too many factors that go into hiring to really give a definite answer. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get some battle wounds at the local level though. The level of trial experience you'd get at a local PD's office would be an asset.

FYI, I work at the federal defenders for a large city, and can definitely say that people are hired out of law school. Not as assistant federal defenders, mind you, but as research and writing attorneys.

So, these PD's have researchers and writers under them and all they do is the fun stuff? Sounds like a dream job.

The responsibilities for research and writing are generally split, except at trial (where a motion might need to be rushed without the AFD breaking stride). In federal court, there's not nearly as much oral argumentation, so the R&W attorneys actually have a pretty good gig.

[RadMobile]

For those of you looking at Public Defense work in California, here is this nice PDF.

http://www.law.ucdavis.edu/alumni/volun ... ctices.pdf

According to the PDF, starting salary for SF public defenders is $90,818. Not too shabby.

[king3780]

For those of you looking at Public Defense work in California, here is this nice PDF.

http://www.law.ucdavis.edu/alumni/volun ... ctices.pdf

According to the PDF, starting salary for SF public defenders is $90,818. Not too shabby.

Except for the fact $90k doesn't go very far in SF... it's like $40k in Dallas. Of course, you get to live in SF, instead of Dallas, so it's got that going for it.

[Borhas]

What about career prospects after years of experience? Lateral to a private firm etc? I don't know if I could or couldn't be a PD forever, but after 10 years (and a juicy IBR loan discharge) it would be nice if all that experience could open up more doors. What do most experienced PD's do? Stay until they die, move to private practice, transfer to a different PD office in a more desirable location?

[Anonymous User]

What about career prospects after years of experience? Lateral to a private firm etc? I don't know if I could or couldn't be a PD forever, but after 10 years (and a juicy IBR loan discharge) it would be nice if all that experience could open up more doors. What do most experienced PD's do? Stay until they die, move to private practice, transfer to a different PD office in a more desirable location?

Wondering about this myself

[leobowski]

What about career prospects after years of experience? Lateral to a private firm etc? I don't know if I could or couldn't be a PD forever, but after 10 years (and a juicy IBR loan discharge) it would be nice if all that experience could open up more doors. What do most experienced PD's do? Stay until they die, move to private practice, transfer to a different PD office in a more desirable location?

I've talked to some PDs about this. I get the feeling that most either: (1) stay in the system and work their way up towards appellate defense, the administrative level, or the homicide unit; (2) get into federal defense; or (3) go into small criminal defense, PI, or general practice firms. The ones that do get USA or white-collar defense gigs are very, very rare.

[Anonymous User]

What about career prospects after years of experience? Lateral to a private firm etc? I don't know if I could or couldn't be a PD forever, but after 10 years (and a juicy IBR loan discharge) it would be nice if all that experience could open up more doors. What do most experienced PD's do? Stay until they die, move to private practice, transfer to a different PD office in a more desirable location?

I've talked to some PDs about this. I get the feeling that most either: (1) stay in the system and work their way up towards appellate defense, the administrative level, or the homicide unit; (2) get into federal defense; or (3) go into small criminal defense, PI, or general practice firms. The ones that do get USA or white-collar defense gigs are very, very rare.

Yeah. I'm interning for an appellate capital murder PD. He just worked his way up. He also worked as an ADA, but he refers to that as his dark period. The job is really useful for a 1L because I'm getting a LOT of research and writing experience. We also get to help out the trial attorneys on occasion. He has connections with the PD office so I'll likely be able to work as PD 2L summer and actually have a jury trial and I work in a pretty big market.

[socraticmethodman]

tag

[Borhas]

Anyone know if immigration rights work is useful towards getting hired as a PD?

I'm trying to figure out if I should sign up for an immigrants rights clinic in 2L Fall. It would give me a chance to work on my Spanish, and get me out of the class room for a while. The down side is that I probably couldn't extern in Spring or do another clinic until my 3L year.

Thoughts?

[tgir]

tag

[Tanicius]

Anyone know if immigration rights work is useful towards getting hired as a PD?

I'm trying to figure out if I should sign up for an immigrants rights clinic in 2L Fall. It would give me a chance to work on my Spanish, and get me out of the class room for a while. The down side is that I probably couldn't extern in Spring or do another clinic until my 3L year.

Thoughts?

It shows that you want to help people in need, which is good. It's not going to give you experience that's anymore valuable than much else in law school, but unless you can gain experience representing people in court, it's not a bad option.