Class of 2013 will be part of the "Lost Generation" Forum

[Billy Blanks]

(1)Fair enough. I see many of you have drank the Kool-Aid and there is no sense in talking you out of making a grave mistake. (2)The purpose of my post is to provide constructive notice so that later you kids won't cry "how were we supposed to know that a incurring debt to obtain a JD was a bad decision?" I intend to print these threads and save them for a time when a congressman/woman will attempt to grandstand on behalf of the middle-class to bail out the grads. I have paid millions in taxes throughout my lifetime and I will be damned if my taxpaying dollars will go to help some hapless kids that decided to take a reckless risk in going to law school to obtain what is essentially a worthless degree these days. (3) If you are going to a T5 on a full ride (no conditions on the scholarship as "scholly" kids are placed in the same section so they can compete against each other, inevitably resulting in the loss of the scholarship), you are going to be fine. The rest of you will feel the wrath of this profession. (4)Being a lawyer just to be a lawyer (or the tired justice seeker, pursuer of truth, voice for the voiceless dreck) is a poor excuse to tie yourself to indentured debt servitude for your life. Yes the economy is terrible. Going to law school is a cowards' way to hide from the recession. Not only is it cowardly, it will be the financial downfall for many of you. I hope the economy rebounds and that I am proven wrong. However, as a seasoned lawyer who has seen many things in his lifetime, our economy will only get worse. If you thought the housing bubble burst was bad, the student loan bubble bust will be worse. You have been warned.

You guys, stop getting so mad; there's a lot of fun to be had here. Take the above.

1 - "Fair enough." What is TTTGrad talking about? What's fair enough? And if it's so fair, why does he go on to bemoan that we "have drank the Kool-Aid." Kool-Aid? "Have drank"? Fair enough to you, sir.

2 - Constructive notice. That's what he's supplying us. Helpful...

3 - Yup, back to the top-quarter-at-Yale argument. Sigh, he probably doesn't realize the T5 don't do scholarship-stipulations (except that you're in "good standing," but it hardly seems an unfair stipulation to require that students not be failing out). Ridiculous? Yes. But you've got to admire the guy for at least admitting that maybe students outside of Yale's top quarter will find some modicum of success or fulfillment. I actually think this is rather big of TTTGrad.

4 - He insults everyone at 4. It's a sophisticated move with the additional bonus of adding to his credibility. Hear that? Wanting to be a lawyer is a terrible reason to be a lawyer. Makes sense to me.

I'm glad our rich benefactor has provided us with such an excellent panoply of evidence. Empirical evidence at that.

[JordynAsh]

--ImageRemoved--

[Cosmo Kramer]

Are you nuts? the legal economy is about to bubble, and I for one am going to strike while the iron is hot!

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/06/04/the ... -lawsuits/

[DanInALionsDen]

I guess I should turn down my full ride at Georgetown (a non HYS TTT) and sit home with my English and History degrees watching reality television.

[romothesavior]

Nope, it's true, I'm an old man. Well, at least much older than most here. And I am enjoying a nice Rocky Patel Edge right now as well!! (Thanks for the young at heart line. I do try!!)

+1 to great cigars. Rocky Patel FTW.

[romothesavior]

I guess I should turn down my full ride at Georgetown (a non HYS TTT) and sit home with my English and History degrees watching reality television.

And I should turn down my 2/3 scholarship at the best school in the city I most want to live in which would allow me to engage in the career I've always wanted to practice. Sounds reasonable.

[Grizz]

Nope, it's true, I'm an old man. Well, at least much older than most here. And I am enjoying a nice Rocky Patel Edge right now as well!! (Thanks for the young at heart line. I do try!!)

+1 to great cigars. Rocky Patel FTW.

+1, was just talking about this in the bro thread.

[romothesavior]

Nope, it's true, I'm an old man. Well, at least much older than most here. And I am enjoying a nice Rocky Patel Edge right now as well!! (Thanks for the young at heart line. I do try!!)

+1 to great cigars. Rocky Patel FTW.

+1, was just talking about this in the bro thread.

What's the bro thread and why wasn't I made aware about it?

[somewhatwayward]

Fair enough. I see many of you have drank the Kool-Aid and there is no sense in talking you out of making a grave mistake. The purpose of my post is to provide constructive notice so that later you kids won't cry "how were we supposed to know that a incurring debt to obtain a JD was a bad decision?" I intend to print these threads and save them for a time when a congressman/woman will attempt to grandstand on behalf of the middle-class to bail out the grads. I have paid millions in taxes throughout my lifetime and I will be damned if my taxpaying dollars will go to help some hapless kids that decided to take a reckless risk in going to law school to obtain what is essentially a worthless degree these days. If you are going to a T5 on a full ride (no conditions on the scholarship as "scholly" kids are placed in the same section so they can compete against each other, inevitably resulting in the loss of the scholarship), you are going to be fine. The rest of you will feel the wrath of this profession. Being a lawyer just to be a lawyer (or the tired justice seeker, pursuer of truth, voice for the voiceless dreck) is a poor excuse to tie yourself to indentured debt servitude for your life. Yes the economy is terrible. Going to law school is a cowards' way to hide from the recession. Not only is it cowardly, it will be the financial downfall for many of you. I hope the economy rebounds and that I am proven wrong. However, as a seasoned lawyer who has seen many things in his lifetime, our economy will only get worse. If you thought the housing bubble burst was bad, the student loan bubble bust will be worse. You have been warned.

so what horse do you have in this race? i'm confused. you have claim to have millions of dollars; you obviously paid off your student loans, right?....and you don't need to be employed in the legal profession in order to make money. for you, LS was a costly mistake but not one that relegated you to doc review in a cockroach-infested basement or a radio shack gig.

....yet you seem extremely angry and resentful. it goes beyond 'i just want future generations to be warned about the risks of law school'...what gives?

[toolshed]

While you kids cry in 3 years, bus drivers such as John Nelson (featured in the link below) will be banking $160K a year with no student loan debt. So much for the modern day prestige of a JD. I guess many of you (those that will strike out at OCI) will find shitlaw redeeming. After all, there is no shame in making $50-60K a year while working 2,100-2,300 hours per year.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/inte ... 03286.html

Alright, I agree with your premise that law is being hit hard right now, but you are being a fucking toolshed. I tried to summarize the reasonable argument behind what you were saying, so that we could have an intelligent discussion, and you just went on with your dickish posturing.

Stop antagonizing people. It's a terrible way to get anyone to listen. It's a waste of time for you, me and everyone else here. If you have reasonable shit to say, go ahead and say it. Otherwise, get the hell out. There are better ways to get human contact in this world than verbally abusing strangers you don't know.

Don't drag me into this.

[Grizz]

What's the bro thread and why wasn't I made aware about it?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0&t=119234

[UFstudent]

Kids, you may want to reconsider your terrible decision to attend law school. You are better off gambling $150K in Vegas than giving it to the greedy law school cartels. At least you can discharge the $150K gambling debt in bankruptcy, unlike student loans that will follow you to your grave.

Here are three timely stories from law.com, NYTimes and the Chicago Tribune. There is still time for some of you kids to avoid the 3 year disaster that awaits you starting in August.

Law grad with honors now living at home being supported by wife since Biglaw rescinded his offer:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/bu ... ml?sid=101

Tier 1 law students in NYC struggling on $9/hr jobs while working "greeter" jobs:

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... ummer_Jobs

Gambling debts are dischargeable, student loans will remain until fully repaid or you are 6 feet under:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/your- ... money.html

I am sure most of you kids will disregard the warning signs. I am sure most of you think you are the lone excpetion to an inevitable miserable future. Let me know how that works out for you in 3 years.

[toolfan]

My other options are go to OCS, which is actually very backed up, or become a city cop and try and pull down 45k. Another option might be to write for a paper -oh wait, that's nearly impossible, too. Yes, I'm a humanities major, and I kind of put all of my eggs in the law school basket since freshman year. Quite the muddle. Luckily, I got a decent scholly, and Biglaw would be nice, but it isn't bigalw or bust. I already plan on living like a college student after law school. I don't think there will be any other way.

edit: I've read the data, and I've become a bit desensitized to it. But it still worries me. Really worries me.

[creamedcats]

Anyone not prepared to have someone like the OP as their senior associate should probably give up on BigLaw ITE. Nobody should expect or feel entitlted to BigLaw. Newsflash? Not really.

OP, I liked your post on Seton Hall, but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. The only people who are even going to read this are the ones who are actually making decent decisions (scholarships at good/ok schools, targeted markets, willingness to eat shit for a few years) and find your post objectionable as a result.

[rando]

Anyone not prepared to have someone like the OP as their senior associate should probably give up on BigLaw ITE.

huh?

[MD/JD2B]

The United States is so much better off than the rest of the world that we find a lot of irrelevent things to whine about. How many of us are truly worried about where the next meal is coming from or if our newborn will survive or will we get kcked out of of our curent refugee camp if we're not kidnapped and beheaded.. It's all a matter of perspecitve. BTW, there are fewer neurotic people in the third world because they are trying too meet their their every day needs for living. The comfort in all this is that our race will not exist in a few thousand years...true equality will then be the name of the game.

[toolfan]

The United States is so much better off than the rest of the world that we find a lot of irrelevent things to whine about. How many of us are truly worried about where the next meal is coming from or if our newborn will survive or will we get kcked out of of our curent refugee camp if we're not kidnapped and beheaded.. It's all a matter of perspecitve. BTW, there are fewer neurotic people in the third world because they are trying too meet their their every day needs for living. The comfort in all this is that our race will not exist in a few thousand years...true equality will then be the name of the game.

140

Spelling 120

[d34d9823]

The United States is so much better off than the rest of the world that we find a lot of irrelevent things to whine about. How many of us are truly worried about where the next meal is coming from or if our newborn will survive or will we get kcked out of of our curent refugee camp if we're not kidnapped and beheaded.. It's all a matter of perspecitve. BTW, there are fewer neurotic people in the third world because they are trying too meet their their every day needs for living. The comfort in all this is that our race will not exist in a few thousand years...true equality will then be the name of the game.

Because everyone was totally equal 3000 years ago? The earth is more egalitarian today than it ever has been.

[owt]

This was already discussed ad nauseum (sp?) but every field is hurting. Even new grads in nursing, which is supposed to be recession-proof, are having a tough time finding jobs.

Debt management is the most important thing IMO. Yea, if you get into a top 10 school it will probably pay off. Unfortunately, the rest of the schools are much riskier. I personally turned down schools ranked as high as 20 to attend a local school because of a scholarship. If/when I miss the biglaw cut, I would rather be stuck with 50k in total COL/tuition debt than $200,000!

[HazelEyes]

Kids, you may want to reconsider your terrible decision to attend law school. You are better off gambling $150K in Vegas than giving it to the greedy law school cartels. At least you can discharge the $150K gambling debt in bankruptcy, unlike student loans that will follow you to your grave.

Here are three timely stories from law.com, NYTimes and the Chicago Tribune. There is still time for some of you kids to avoid the 3 year disaster that awaits you starting in August.

Law grad with honors now living at home being supported by wife since Biglaw rescinded his offer:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/bu ... ml?sid=101

Tier 1 law students in NYC struggling on $9/hr jobs while working "greeter" jobs:

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... ummer_Jobs

Gambling debts are dischargeable, student loans will remain until fully repaid or you are 6 feet under:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/your- ... money.html

I am sure most of you kids will disregard the warning signs. I am sure most of you think you are the lone excpetion to an inevitable miserable future. Let me know how that works out for you in 3 years.

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... 2459117609

[agentdedalus]

--ImageRemoved--

[creamedcats]

Anyone not prepared to have someone like the OP as their senior associate should probably give up on BigLaw ITE.

huh?

Condescends to you, treats you like an ignorant, hopeless charity case, but may actually be correct.

[rando]

Anyone not prepared to have someone like the OP as their senior associate should probably give up on BigLaw ITE.

huh?

Condescends to you, treats you like an ignorant, hopeless charity case, but may actually be correct.

You will have to analogize more clearly than that on your exams to do well enough so as to be in the situation where you will know what you're talking about.

[motiontodismiss]

And how is it that i have a test prep tutor who is a 3L at UT who is graduating below 30% (class rank) and has a job lined up at Jones Day to start out making 160,000 a year. Oh and he only has COL debt... roughly 30,000 i would say.

And in 10 years he'll still be making $170k. Black box compensation=less compensation. Period. End of story.

[CG614]

Fair enough. I see many of you have drank the Kool-Aid and there is no sense in talking you out of making a grave mistake. The purpose of my post is to provide constructive notice so that later you kids won't cry "how were we supposed to know that a incurring debt to obtain a JD was a bad decision?" I intend to print these threads and save them for a time when a congressman/woman will attempt to grandstand on behalf of the middle-class to bail out the grads. I have paid millions in taxes throughout my lifetime and I will be damned if my taxpaying dollars will go to help some hapless kids that decided to take a reckless risk in going to law school to obtain what is essentially a worthless degree these days. If you are going to a T5 on a full ride (no conditions on the scholarship as "scholly" kids are placed in the same section so they can compete against each other, inevitably resulting in the loss of the scholarship), you are going to be fine. The rest of you will feel the wrath of this profession. Being a lawyer just to be a lawyer (or the tired justice seeker, pursuer of truth, voice for the voiceless dreck) is a poor excuse to tie yourself to indentured debt servitude for your life. Yes the economy is terrible. Going to law school is a cowards' way to hide from the recession. Not only is it cowardly, it will be the financial downfall for many of you. I hope the economy rebounds and that I am proven wrong. However, as a seasoned lawyer who has seen many things in his lifetime, our economy will only get worse. If you thought the housing bubble burst was bad, the student loan bubble bust will be worse. You have been warned.

Thank you so much! You saved my life. I just withdrew from CLS with significant grants. I don't know how to thank you for opening my eyes.