DOJ Honors 2015-16 Megathread Forum

[Nebby]

Anyone have insights on coping with the DC cost of living while working on the salary paid to Honors attorneys? I'm trying to decide between an approximately 200-attorney firm that pays 110k-120k to new associates in states like Minnesota, Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana; versus an Honors Attorney offer that would pay 90k in DC. I'm definitely leaning towards the Honors Program, but the difference in cost of living between the Midwest and DC really makes the salary difference start to seem significant. I'm fortunate enough not to have any loans to pay off, so it seems like DC should be doable (and comfortable, even), but I would really appreciate others' insights on the issue.

lol

You'll be fine.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insights on coping with the DC cost of living while working on the salary paid to Honors attorneys? I'm trying to decide between an approximately 200-attorney firm that pays 110k-120k to new associates in states like Minnesota, Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana; versus an Honors Attorney offer that would pay 90k in DC. I'm definitely leaning towards the Honors Program, but the difference in cost of living between the Midwest and DC really makes the salary difference start to seem significant. I'm fortunate enough not to have any loans to pay off, so it seems like DC should be doable (and comfortable, even), but I would really appreciate others' insights on the issue.

I think there are a lot of ways to manage the pay cut and a lot of things that make up for it as well. From what I was told this summer as a SLIP you start at a GS 11 or 12 or whatever it is but after 3 years you are bumped to a GS-14 which gets you in the six-figure range. Cost of living is definitely manageable bc DC is so easy to commute into. You can get affordable apartments outside the city in Baltimore, Arlington, and or other cities a lot closer and commute in if you need to. I commuted in from Baltimore everyday and got a travel stipend to pay for most of my monthly train pass as well.

[Anonymous User]

I think there are a lot of ways to manage the pay cut and a lot of things that make up for it as well. From what I was told this summer as a SLIP you start at a GS 11 or 12 or whatever it is but after 3 years you are bumped to a GS-14 which gets you in the six-figure range. Cost of living is definitely manageable bc DC is so easy to commute into. You can get affordable apartments outside the city in Baltimore, Arlington, and or other cities a lot closer and commute in if you need to. I commuted in from Baltimore everyday and got a travel stipend to pay for most of my monthly train pass as well.

Thanks, that's good to hear!

[Nebby]

Okay since it appears that google does not exist anymore, I'll elaborate on my initial post.

After-tax income (including both DC and Fed tax), before any deductions or credits will be $61k/year.

You can cop a great one bedroom apartment in desirable neighborhoods in DC for $1500-2500/month. At the high end ($2500/month), that'll set you back $30k/year. Utilities will run at the most $200/month (gas, electric, internet). That'll set you back $2400. An extremely high food budget of $1000/month (grocery plus dining) will set you back $12000. Add it all up, and an extremely comfortable life in DC would cost $45k/year.

You can take the other $16k and fill a bathtub full of pennies and swim in it.

[Anonymous User]

You can take the other $16k and fill a bathtub full of pennies and swim in it.

Yes, but if he takes the position at the firm, he can fill multiple bathtubs with pennies--that is not a factor to be lightly discounted.

In other news, has anyone heard about Fed Programs offers being extended?

[Anonymous User]

She's back!!

"Antitrust finalists have been added to the HP pool."

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything further from EOIR OCIJ?? (i.e. offers??)

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything further from EOIR OCIJ?? (i.e. offers??)

nothing here, my references had until today to respond though.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, but if he takes the position at the firm, he can fill multiple bathtubs with pennies--that is not a factor to be lightly discounted.

In other news, has anyone heard about Fed Programs offers being extended?

Yeah there was this guy like the night the finalists came out.

Co-clerk just got an offer... Civil, not sure which component (she's still on phone)

oh, woah. you two have dueling HP applications? that sounds stressful

That would be, but not the case... applied to different components. The offer was for Fed Programs, btw!

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything further from EOIR OCIJ?? (i.e. offers??)

nothing here, my references had until today to respond though.

Any OCIJ EOIR finalists out there who have NOT had references checked? Am wondering if I should start to worry at this point...

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything further from EOIR OCIJ?? (i.e. offers??)

nothing here, my references had until today to respond though.

Any OCIJ EOIR finalists out there who have NOT had references checked? Am wondering if I should start to worry at this point...

My references have not been checked, but I was a volunteer legal intern at an immigration court summer before last and I was told that HQ contacted the judges to ask about my work. Not sure if they rely on that feedback more than references (plus one of my references was an IJ I wrote for who got the email)...So if you interned at a court, perhaps you are in the same boat??

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything further from EOIR OCIJ?? (i.e. offers??)

nothing here, my references had until today to respond though.

Any OCIJ EOIR finalists out there who have NOT had references checked? Am wondering if I should start to worry at this point...

My references have not been checked, but I was a volunteer legal intern at an immigration court summer before last and I was told that HQ contacted the judges to ask about my work. Not sure if they rely on that feedback more than references (plus one of my references was an IJ I wrote for who got the email)...So if you interned at a court, perhaps you are in the same boat??

Ah cool thanks. Good to know the distinction. I would suppose they would rely pretty heavily on the IJ feedback more than references. I ask because my status changed to finalist pretty early, but since then I have heard nothing from my references by way of checks. I've seen folks on here have their refs checked by email.

Are all OCIJ finalists posted, or are there more coming today/this week? If more finalists coming, I guess it's not TOO big of a concern, but still a little disconcerting.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything further from EOIR OCIJ?? (i.e. offers??)

nothing here, my references had until today to respond though.

Any OCIJ EOIR finalists out there who have NOT had references checked? Am wondering if I should start to worry at this point...

My references have not been checked, but I was a volunteer legal intern at an immigration court summer before last and I was told that HQ contacted the judges to ask about my work. Not sure if they rely on that feedback more than references (plus one of my references was an IJ I wrote for who got the email)...So if you interned at a court, perhaps you are in the same boat??

Ah cool thanks. Good to know the distinction. I would suppose they would rely pretty heavily on the IJ feedback more than references. I ask because my status changed to finalist pretty early, but since then I have heard nothing from my references by way of checks. I've seen folks on here have their refs checked by email.

Are all OCIJ finalists posted, or are there more coming today/this week? If more finalists coming, I guess it's not TOO big of a concern, but still a little disconcerting.

From Deanna today:

Re: Another group of OCIJ HP finalists soon
Sorry for the late response. I believe all OCIJ finalists have been posted.

[Anonymous User]

My references for OCIJ EOIR were checked on 11/19. Have not been made an offer as of now.

[Anonymous User]

Just curious, but has anyone received an offer from USTP?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone not been designated a finalist for OCIJ after being selected for interview?

[Anonymous User]

Just got a finalist email from DOJ, so it looks like Deanna is finally getting around to those. Should clarify for people who are wondering if they were selected for more than one component, while receiving one or zero offers, and whether they should hold out hope for anything further.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, has anyone who interviewed with the District Court section of OIL hear about offers or have their references contacted? I know OIL Appellate has extended some offers, but I haven't heard about DCS. Thanks!

[grand inquisitor]

nebby stop being the johann of this thread. i came on as gs-12 and i don't understand how anyone could do gs-11 in dc without having a roommate and eating raman.

[Nebby]

nebby stop being the johann of this thread. i came on as gs-12 and i don't understand how anyone could do gs-11 in dc without having a roommate and eating raman.

Huh? I have friends that live in DC on a $30k salary. Y'all are absolutely terrible with your money.

[Anonymous User]

nebby stop being the johann of this thread. i came on as gs-12 and i don't understand how anyone could do gs-11 in dc without having a roommate and eating raman.

Huh? I have friends that live in DC on a $30k salary. Y'all are absolutely terrible with your money.

Do they live in group homes? Or in the outskirts of the city? Because 1 BR apartments in "desirable neighborhoods" typically start well over $2K / month, unless it's a disgustingly old building, or MAYBE an English basement (but even those are usually around $2000).

That said, as a current DC resident, I'll say the GS pay scale is livable. You won't be living law firm life of luxury, but if that's what you want, I don't know why you applied to government jobs in the first place.

[Nebby]

nebby stop being the johann of this thread. i came on as gs-12 and i don't understand how anyone could do gs-11 in dc without having a roommate and eating raman.

Huh? I have friends that live in DC on a $30k salary. Y'all are absolutely terrible with your money.

Do they live in group homes? Or in the outskirts of the city? Because 1 BR apartments in "desirable neighborhoods" typically start well over $2K / month, unless it's a disgustingly old building, or MAYBE an English basement (but even those are usually around $2000).

That said, as a current DC resident, I'll say the GS pay scale is livable. You won't be living law firm life of luxury, but if that's what you want, I don't know why you applied to government jobs in the first place.

Group home.

Here's my previous post. Let me know if you think I missed anything:

Okay since it appears that google does not exist anymore, I'll elaborate on my initial post.

After-tax income of $90k (including both DC and Fed tax), before any deductions or credits will be $61k/year.

You can cop a great one bedroom apartment in desirable neighborhoods in DC for $1500-2500/month. At the high end ($2500/month), that'll set you back $30k/year. Utilities will run at the most $200/month (gas, electric, internet). That'll set you back $2400. An extremely high food budget of $1000/month (grocery plus dining) will set you back $12000. Add it all up, and an extremely comfortable life in DC would cost $45k/year.

You can take the other $16k and fill a bathtub full of pennies and swim in it.

[Nebby]

Not to highjack this thread, but I don't quite understand how anyone would start at $90k through DOJ honors. That would be GS-13 step 1, and I've never heard nor seen anyone start out at that, even post-two-clerkships. GS-13 is a supervisor position, and I highly doubt DOJ is going to make an "entry-level" hire a supervisor.

The next possibility is GS-12 step 7, but even that stretches the imagination for someone with at most 3-years of post-grad experience.

[Anonymous User]

Sometimes I feel like Ms. Willis it totally reading this thread. Just posted:

So for the Washington, DC area, here's the current annual salary - federal employees may get a slight pay raise for 2016:

GS 11, step 1: $63,722

GS 12, step 1: $76,378

GS 13, step 1: $90,823

GS 14, step 1: $107,325

You may also want to take a look at the promotion policy for incoming HP hires, also posted on the website listed above.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, but if he takes the position at the firm, he can fill multiple bathtubs with pennies--that is not a factor to be lightly discounted.

In other news, has anyone heard about Fed Programs offers being extended?

Yeah there was this guy like the night the finalists came out.

Co-clerk just got an offer... Civil, not sure which component (she's still on phone)

oh, woah. you two have dueling HP applications? that sounds stressful

That would be, but not the case... applied to different components. The offer was for Fed Programs, btw!

Federal Programs made some offers on Friday the 20th FWIW.