UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt Forum

[WheninLaw]

Is it a waste of time to mass mail firms that are coming to OCI but you don't plan on bidding on? The alums in other T14 threads seem to be suggesting that one should mass mail everyone to get early interviews.

I do not think it would hurt you, but I imagine most of the responses as "we will be at OCI." Swing for the fences, this is your one shot.

[Neal Patrick Harris]

Is it a waste of time to mass mail firms that are coming to OCI but you don't plan on bidding on? The alums in other T14 threads seem to be suggesting that one should mass mail everyone to get early interviews.

I do not think it would hurt you, but I imagine most of the responses as "we will be at OCI." Swing for the fences, this is your one shot.

IMO you're better off just picking up firms you want to interview with at add/drop. Mass mailing generally goes straight to the CB stage, and you have a better chance to be seen via screener.

[enibs]

Is it a waste of time to mass mail firms that are coming to OCI but you don't plan on bidding on? The alums in other T14 threads seem to be suggesting that one should mass mail everyone to get early interviews.

This is a joke, right? "Dear Firm X, I'm not sufficiently interested in you to bid on you for OCI, but in case I totally wash out at OCI, I'd like to interview with you as a back up plan."

Seriously, DO NOT mass mail to firms that are doing OCI.

[Anonymous User]

Is it a waste of time to mass mail firms that are coming to OCI but you don't plan on bidding on? The alums in other T14 threads seem to be suggesting that one should mass mail everyone to get early interviews.

This is a joke, right? "Dear Firm X, I'm not sufficiently interested in you to bid on you for OCI, but in case I totally wash out at OCI, I'd like to interview with you as a back up plan."

Seriously, DO NOT mass mail to firms that are doing OCI.

Sorry, but I saw in someone else's OCI thread that this might be a good idea. I don't plan on bidding Chicago so I was going to mass mail them and see if I can pick up a couple interviews anyways. Sounds like it'll be a waste of time.

[Anonymous User]

So if I'm bidding Chicago and doing NYC as a backup, and the Chicago firms ask about where else I'm bidding what can I say without spooking them? I don't want to straight up lie but I also don't want to say anything about NYC that will make them think I am indifferent between Chicago and NYC. I would really prefer Chicago but I would also prefer employment to unemployment, hence the NYC bids.

[Anonymous User]

So if I'm bidding Chicago and doing NYC as a backup, and the Chicago firms ask about where else I'm bidding what can I say without spooking them? I don't want to straight up lie but I also don't want to say anything about NYC that will make them think I am indifferent between Chicago and NYC. I would really prefer Chicago but I would also prefer employment to unemployment, hence the NYC bids.

Basically that, to be honest.

Depending on practice area, you can say that you're more interested in working on high-level work than location, but that you'd strongly prefer Chicago if possible.

Be sure to include why you like Chicago, why it'd be preferable to NY, etc. Really really sell it. It's hard to tell you exactly what to say because you'll have to make the answer your own and include personal stories.

Maybe someone else can weigh in with a better answer...

[Anonymous User]

So if I'm bidding Chicago and doing NYC as a backup, and the Chicago firms ask about where else I'm bidding what can I say without spooking them? I don't want to straight up lie but I also don't want to say anything about NYC that will make them think I am indifferent between Chicago and NYC. I would really prefer Chicago but I would also prefer employment to unemployment, hence the NYC bids.

You can absolutely say that. Chicago firms realize that it is a small market and that bidding NY as an alternative is a safe bet. It gets sketchy if you volunteer that you are bidding 3+ markets.

Be able to tell a decent story about why your interests line up with the firms you're bidding on.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks everyone. Also are there any Chicago firms where it would look weird to say you want transactional? I'm thinking specifically of firms like Jenner and Schiff. Seems like they both have transactional/corporate practices but their litigation offices are obviously much bigger.

[2014]

I'm less optimistic than the other people re: disclosing NYC. I'm a big proponent of the idea there are zero things that are sufficient or necessary and it's all a blurry spectrum but disclosing NYC interest at all to Chicago firms is a huge huge red flag that requires other substantial positive factors to outweigh it or very persuasive mitigation. I would never suggest someone lie but you should consider telling the truth in such a way that entirely hides NYC if you are bidding both. If they are smart enough to phrase their question in a rock solid way you are likely screwed but have a damn good canned response ready.

[Anonymous User]

I'm less optimistic than the other people re: disclosing NYC. I'm a big proponent of the idea there are zero things that are sufficient or necessary and it's all a blurry spectrum but disclosing NYC interest at all to Chicago firms is a huge huge red flag that requires other substantial positive factors to outweigh it or very persuasive mitigation. I would never suggest someone lie but you should consider telling the truth in such a way that entirely hides NYC if you are bidding both. If they are smart enough to phrase their question in a rock solid way you are likely screwed but have a damn good canned response ready.

I think this is right--just wanted to add the caveat that you shouldn't be stupid and act like you're hiding something. It would be bad to get a follow-up answer that forces you to tell them after you just avoided doing so.

I went with the "I want to do high-level work, and the Chicago market is shallow with respect to [subset of Corporate]. If possible, I'd love to be in Chicago because XYZ." Worked at every callback I accepted. 2014 may be right though, I may have had "very persuasive mitigation"

[2014]

Yep I agree.

For whoever wonders, the spectrum of questions I remember getting on the matter were:

Are you mostly focused on Chicago?
Are you only interviewing in Chicago?
Where else are you interviewing?
Which other firms are you interviewing at?
So do you know for sure you want to work in Chicago?
Are you interviewing in New York?
Did you only bid Chicago firms?


As you can see, your level of sketchy half truths that you can say varies with each and you don't know which one you will get in advance. You would be well served to consider an answer for each as well as even more aggressive variations that I've heard of (like "Oh you want to do corporate work, I assume you will go to New York then" *Silence followed by skepticism*).

[Anonymous User]

I'm less optimistic than the other people re: disclosing NYC. I'm a big proponent of the idea there are zero things that are sufficient or necessary and it's all a blurry spectrum but disclosing NYC interest at all to Chicago firms is a huge huge red flag that requires other substantial positive factors to outweigh it or very persuasive mitigation. I would never suggest someone lie but you should consider telling the truth in such a way that entirely hides NYC if you are bidding both. If they are smart enough to phrase their question in a rock solid way you are likely screwed but have a damn good canned response ready.

I think this is right--just wanted to add the caveat that you shouldn't be stupid and act like you're hiding something. It would be bad to get a follow-up answer that forces you to tell them after you just avoided doing so.

I went with the "I want to do high-level work, and the Chicago market is shallow with respect to [subset of Corporate]. If possible, I'd love to be in Chicago because XYZ." Worked at every callback I accepted. 2014 may be right though, I may have had "very persuasive mitigation"

Totally, 100% agree with this. You can spin it into making each Chicago firm feel special, as it were. Something like, "honestly, I really want to do distressed debt/public M&A/high yield/securitizations/etc. work at the highest level and you (Sidely/Kirkland/Skadden/etc.) are one of the very few firms in Chicago that competes in that space. I've been NYC as a back up because I don't want to sacrifice the quality of training for a city."

Tell NYC firms -- "I'm biding a couple of Chicago firms because I like the city, but honestly, there are only a handful of firms worldwide that do X type of work on your level and I would be ecstatic to practice in the world's preeminent financial center if it meant I got the opportunity to work on those deals."

This 100% worked for me (callbacks at all of Kirkland/Sidley/Skadden Chicago as well as multiple v20 in NYC; accepted at v10 nyc).

[Anonymous User]

I'm less optimistic than the other people re: disclosing NYC. I'm a big proponent of the idea there are zero things that are sufficient or necessary and it's all a blurry spectrum but disclosing NYC interest at all to Chicago firms is a huge huge red flag that requires other substantial positive factors to outweigh it or very persuasive mitigation. I would never suggest someone lie but you should consider telling the truth in such a way that entirely hides NYC if you are bidding both. If they are smart enough to phrase their question in a rock solid way you are likely screwed but have a damn good canned response ready.

I think this is right--just wanted to add the caveat that you shouldn't be stupid and act like you're hiding something. It would be bad to get a follow-up answer that forces you to tell them after you just avoided doing so.

I went with the "I want to do high-level work, and the Chicago market is shallow with respect to [subset of Corporate]. If possible, I'd love to be in Chicago because XYZ." Worked at every callback I accepted. 2014 may be right though, I may have had "very persuasive mitigation"

Totally, 100% agree with this. You can spin it into making each Chicago firm feel special, as it were. Something like, "honestly, I really want to do distressed debt/public M&A/high yield/securitizations/etc. work at the highest level and you (Sidely/Kirkland/Skadden/etc.) are one of the very few firms in Chicago that competes in that space. I've been NYC as a back up because I don't want to sacrifice the quality of training for a city."

Tell NYC firms -- "I'm biding a couple of Chicago firms because I like the city, but honestly, there are only a handful of firms worldwide that do X type of work on your level and I would be ecstatic to practice in the world's preeminent financial center if it meant I got the opportunity to work on those deals."

This 100% worked for me (callbacks at all of Kirkland/Sidley/Skadden Chicago as well as multiple v20 in NYC; accepted at v10 nyc).

Quoted anon - I did this and had similar results. Ended up at Kirkland/Sidley/Skadden with multiple v10 offers.

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys mind giving your grade ranges/whether you think that matters. Thanks a lot for your input.

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys mind giving your grade ranges/whether you think that matters. Thanks a lot for your input.

Around 178. It obviously matters, but amazing grades are neither necessary or sufficient. Start working on interviewing/networking now.

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys mind giving your grade ranges/whether you think that matters. Thanks a lot for your input.

Around 178. It obviously matters, but amazing grades are neither necessary or sufficient. Start working on interviewing/networking now.

I'm one of the anons from above (one who accepted NYC v10 over Chicago Kirkland/Sidley/Skadden) and was also just above 178.

Again, couldn't agree more with quoted anon who appears to be my long lost twin. Network, learn about firms, hustle. It will get you much further than grades will (also, grades are set and the former isn't).

[Anonymous User]

Word of advice: Don't post multiple callbacks/rejections with your grades/journal in the same post. Classmates have access to the interview schedules of each firm and can cross-reference them to out you and your grades. I know someone with bad grades who did this a few years back. (yes, people are nosy)

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone ever gotten or heard of someone getting a score in the high 160s in LRW? Is this something that could be explained away at OCI if other grades are decent? Or is it pretty much a kiss of death?

There is no way this can be true unless you turned in the assignments incredibly late/not at all - Masur has to approve the grades, no chance he lets that happen.

There were a lot of responses asking about the bigelow or what happened, but without disclosing any of that information since it would be kind of outing, does anyone here have experience with going into OCI with that sort of a grade? Do you think it will make a big difference if it is LRW instead of some other random class?

[Crowing]

Word of advice: Don't post multiple callbacks/rejections with your grades/journal in the same post. Classmates have access to the interview schedules of each firm and can cross-reference them to out you and your grades. I know someone with bad grades who did this a few years back. (yes, people are nosy)

People have access to other peoples' callback schedules?

[20141023]

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[Mal Reynolds]

Then if it's anything like winter OCI people will post their callbacks on Facebook.

[Crowing]

Word of advice: Don't post multiple callbacks/rejections with your grades/journal in the same post. Classmates have access to the interview schedules of each firm and can cross-reference them to out you and your grades. I know someone with bad grades who did this a few years back. (yes, people are nosy)

People have access to other peoples' callback schedules?

If it's anything like 1L Winter OCI, you could see who was signed up for the employers you were interviewing with, and the website even showed the times that everyone was interviewing.

I guess I don't understand how people could connect the dots based on interview schedules for screeners.

[beepboopbeep]

Word of advice: Don't post multiple callbacks/rejections with your grades/journal in the same post. Classmates have access to the interview schedules of each firm and can cross-reference them to out you and your grades. I know someone with bad grades who did this a few years back. (yes, people are nosy)

People have access to other peoples' callback schedules?

If it's anything like 1L Winter OCI, you could see who was signed up for the employers you were interviewing with, and the website even showed the times that everyone was interviewing.

I guess I don't understand how people could connect the dots based on interview schedules for screeners.

My guess would be: see who interviewed at each of the firms listed in a post, if it's a small number of people you can almost definitely figure it out by knowing who's on LR/LF, who made K&E, etc. In many cases just cross-referencing the interview schedules could narrow it down to one or two people.

[2014]

If you do like 3 firms across 2 markets it narrows the pool down considerably. You'd be surprised how few do all three of Jenner Chi, Mayer Chi and Skadden NYC just to pick firms at random. If someone posts a cb at all three you can probably narrow it to like 2 names immediately.

Just do shit in separate posts and fudge or ballpark your GPA. Still conveying valuable info and incentivizing classmates to do the same while covering your own ass.

[20141023]

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