The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

Post by **romothesavior** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:28 am

Sparty, you're being dangerously unproductive ITT. Cut it out with the "suck it up" schtick.

Lwoods · Post by **Lwoods** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:43 am

If there are any recent grads in NY, the Oscar alert this morning noted that Judge Woods is accepting applications for a Feb. 2014 start.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:32 am

Copped dat interview with a small shop in my preferred region for early next month. Eeeeeek!! After virtually no progress for the better part of a month just getting the request made my week. And now...to prep like crazy.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:09 pm

How would you guys word a cover letter seeking a law clerk position with the opportunity to turn into an associate position?

I don't want to come across too strong, but also want to make it known what I'm looking for.

Or is that something I should leave out and find out during interviews?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:23 pm

Hi all,

I am a licensed 2013 Valer dropping in with a bit of good news and a question. I have been applying to jobs on job boards nonstop and have had six interviews since graduation. For four of those jobs there was a second round interview and I got invited to the second interview three out of four times. Three out of the six employers explicitly told me I was a very close second choice. So I have been close, but no cigar, and have not had any interviews in a month or so and had none on the horizon. I'm doing doc review and a couple other gigs and ended up out of work between doc review projects this week so started sending off resumes blindly to small law firms in my city, seeking project work or full time positions, slightly tailoring a very short e-mail body message to each attorney I contacted. I stumbled onto a tiny office of a multioffice, regional (Amlaw 200) firm in my city that I didn't even know existed. Not sure how I'd missed it before as I have hit up big and midsize firms multiple times since 2L. Anyway, I sent my resume to a partner there early last week and got a message from the firms' recruiting coordinator asking me to come into the firm to meet with the attorneys at the office in my city within the next week. I wrote back immediately with my available times and am waiting to confirm the interview time, holding my breath until it is scheduled. The firm is NOT advertising associate positions in my city, so I was really surprised and pleased. Now, the questions:

1) The subject line of the recruiter's e-mail said "xx firm MEETING" and referenced MEETING with multiple attorneys. Is this an interview?
2) The other associates in this firm's office have significantly better grades and/or schools than I do. My grades are fine but I'm not sure why they even want to talk to me, which isn't helping my confidence. I do have some good somewhat relevant practical experience. Any advice on how to get myself in a good place mentally?
3) Based on the wording, any sense if all goes well of how often these situations lead to a job sooner rather than later?

Anyway, I've NEVER had luck mass mailing, even in law school, so just wanted to share this small piece of good news. There are many steps to go, and I am getting much better at not getting my hopes sky high and getting really emotional before each interview... But still...

sparty99 · Post by **sparty99** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How would you guys word a cover letter seeking a law clerk position with the opportunity to turn into an associate position?

I don't want to come across too strong, but also want to make it known what I'm looking for.

Or is that something I should leave out and find out during interviews?

Ask in the interview if it will lead to that, but dont let it be known that that is your main intention. Once you get the job, work hard, night and day. Come in early, leave late. Show them that you are worth the paycheck and more. Then, at some point, they will come to you and ask for you to be an attorney, or you will find the right time to sit down with them and have a discussion about long-term opportunities. But now? Now is not the time.

chrisbru · Post by **chrisbru** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How would you guys word a cover letter seeking a law clerk position with the opportunity to turn into an associate position?

I don't want to come across too strong, but also want to make it known what I'm looking for.

Or is that something I should leave out and find out during interviews?

Definitely ask in the interview. And make sure you are clear about it if that's what you really want. It would be silly to spend time working extra hard in a position that doesn't have the end result that you want.

sparty99 · Post by **sparty99** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How would you guys word a cover letter seeking a law clerk position with the opportunity to turn into an associate position?

I don't want to come across too strong, but also want to make it known what I'm looking for.

Or is that something I should leave out and find out during interviews?

The employer doesn't care what you are looking for. They care about themselves. They have not met you. If they wanted to hire an associate, they would hire an associate. If they want to hire a law clerk then an associate, they will tell you that this is a possability or not. Either way, you get a) a paycheck and b) experience. Do not tell them that you want to be an associate (via a cover letter), when they haven't met you and can't even assess how you would fit into their organization. You assess the likelihood of becoming an associate during the interview. Then you take the job (regardless), so you can get the money and experience. If you have an opportunity that does lead to an associate, then you take that. And once you get the law clerk position and prove yourself to them, then it is at that time, when you can sit down and tell them that you want to take the job to the next level (full-time).

Lwoods · Post by **Lwoods** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

1) The subject line of the recruiter's e-mail said "xx firm MEETING" and referenced MEETING with multiple attorneys. Is this an interview?
2) The other associates in this firm's office have significantly better grades and/or schools than I do. My grades are fine but I'm not sure why they even want to talk to me, which isn't helping my confidence. I do have some good somewhat relevant practical experience. Any advice on how to get myself in a good place mentally?
3) Based on the wording, any sense if all goes well of how often these situations lead to a job sooner rather than later?

Anyway, I've NEVER had luck mass mailing, even in law school, so just wanted to share this small piece of good news. There are many steps to go, and I am getting much better at not getting my hopes sky high and getting really emotional before each interview... But still...

Congrats!

1) I wouldn't get too hung up on this. It could be something as simple as admin eying confused (is s/he solely a recruiter or does s/he have other roles as well?). There might be a possibility that there won't be a spot after all, but that's almost always the case. Just go in with the confidence that they should hire you.
2) Your practical experience is HUGE. A family friend is the managing partner of a Biglaw firm in a major market. He helped me make a list of people and firms to reach out to (long story re why I'm not working at his firm; timing issue). He acknowledged that my traditional stats (school and grades) might not be as good as others' but that my previous work experience is a huge asset. Different firms take different perspectives on that point, but it sounds like they're probably interested in you because of your experience.
Remember: you will be an asset to them because you already know how to work, and you know how the client operates.
3) no clue.

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Copped dat interview with a small shop in my preferred region for early next month. Eeeeeek!! After virtually no progress for the better part of a month just getting the request made my week. And now...to prep like crazy.

Good luck!

chrisbru · Post by **chrisbru** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:41 pm

Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying

BarbellDreams · Post by **BarbellDreams** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:44 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying

Cool, congrats. No matter what the salary you'll be getting experience, which is what matters. As long as they aren't working you 80 hour weeks for 35K I'd say its a good position.

northwood · Post by **northwood** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:46 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying

Congrats!

Lwoods · Post by **Lwoods** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:54 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying

Congrats! Don't be afraid to negotiate the salary.

Did you like the attorneys?

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:55 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying

Job is s job man. Grats!

BlueLotus · Post by **BlueLotus** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:54 pm

GL PA Valers...I sure as hell am gonna be one soon, so sending my best wishes your way!

STAFF ATTORNEY

Pittston, PA
NORTH PENN LEGAL SERVICES
http://www.northpennlegal.org
Date Posted: 12/06/2013
Job Type: ATTORNEY
Schedule Type: Full Time

Practice Areas: Civil Rights & Liberties/Racial Justice Issues, Consumer Protection/Debt/Bankruptcy, Employment/Labor, Homelessness/Housing/Landlord-Tenant

Job Description
Attorney will represent clients in variety of civil cases with focus on consumer, bankruptcy, mortgage foreclosure, unemployment and housing cases in both Luzerne and Lackawanna counties.

Qualifications
Applicants will be evaluated on their oral, writing and advocacy skills as well as prior experience.
PA Bar or by admission required.
Inter-city travel required.
Desire applicants with strong experience supervising legal staff.
Demonstrated commitment to serving interests of low income people.
Salary
Salary DOE to $47,000

Application Instructions:
Reply via email to resumes@northpennlegal.org (preferable) or to HR Manager, North Penn Legal Services, 329 Market St., Williamsport, PA 17701

Ref. in subject line of email: attny112113pitt

North Penn Legal Services, Inc. is anAffirmative Action, Equal Opportunity employer, which employs and promotes without regard to color, sex, race, religion, disability, age, national origin, sexual orientation, veteran status, or any other consideration prohibited by law. Minorities, women, and the physically challenged are encouraged to apply. Preference shall be given to applicants residing in the community to be served in accordance with LSC Regulation 1616 and to qualified applicants who are current recipients of Public Assistance.

chrisbru · Post by **chrisbru** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Lwoods wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying
Congrats! Don't be afraid to negotiate the salary.

Did you like the attorneys?

Yeah I'm going to call them next week and talk about that a bit. They want me to work part time during bar study as well, is this smart?

I did like the attorneys a lot. And I'll be getting in the courtroom/my own cases almost right away doing criminal defense and family law stuff, which is really cool.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:41 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying
Congrats! Don't be afraid to negotiate the salary.

Did you like the attorneys?
Yeah I'm going to call them next week and talk about that a bit. They want me to work part time during bar study as well, is this smart?

I did like the attorneys a lot. And I'll be getting in the courtroom/my own cases almost right away doing criminal defense and family law stuff, which is really cool.

I wouldn't recommend work/study but if they want you to do it, just do it

los blancos · Post by **los blancos** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:43 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying
Congrats! Don't be afraid to negotiate the salary.

Did you like the attorneys?
Yeah I'm going to call them next week and talk about that a bit. They want me to work part time during bar study as well, is this smart?

Congrats man.

It's probably doable for the first part, but you're definitely going to want at least the last 3 weeks or so entirely to yourself.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:57 pm

rad lulz wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying
Job is s job man. Grats!

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:59 pm

I've known several 3Ls who worked 20 hours a week while prepping for the bar. They passed. It's doable.

Post by **romothesavior** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:59 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying

I was planning to PM you tonight with a "Keep your head up, you'll find something, keep grinding, we're all pulling for you" type message. And just like that, you've got an offer. Way to be, my friend.

Post by **romothesavior** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:00 am

spleenworship wrote:I've known several 3Ls who worked 20 hours a week while prepping for the bar. They passed. It's doable.

I worked 30-40 a week through the end of June, 15-20 a week during the first half of July, and quit like July 10-15ish to focus exclusively on the bar. Passed just fine.

chrisbru · Post by **chrisbru** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:18 am

romothesavior wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Well guys, I got an offer today. It's in a small town about an hour from my home city. The pay is not good, to say the least, but it is something. I have until next Friday to accept, so I'll be furiously contacting every firm I have outstanding applications out to instead of studying
I was planning to PM you tonight with a "Keep your head up, you'll find something, keep grinding, we're all pulling for you" type message. And just like that, you've got an offer. Way to be, my friend.

Thanks man, I appreciate it

romothesavior wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I've known several 3Ls who worked 20 hours a week while prepping for the bar. They passed. It's doable.
I worked 30-40 a week through the end of June, 15-20 a week during the first half of July, and quit like July 10-15ish to focus exclusively on the bar. Passed just fine.

That's actually not a bad idea. I don't really want to have two residences though. I'm hoping I can work like two days a week and then do some remote work. It's about a 90 minute drive from my place at school, so I figure I can just cop a cheap hotel and work two days consecutively maybe. Or maybe I can sublease from a community college kid there. I dunno.

Bikeflip · Post by **Bikeflip** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:19 am

You're my boy, bru!

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