Incoming Associates Getting Deferred Forum

[Wild Card]

Anon115523 obviously had some unpleasant personal experience with GP.

Yes, I would call being stealthed (i.e., fired) an extremely unpleasant experience. It happens to everyone eventually. It's the shameless gaslighting and the boomer greed that are disgusting and infuriating.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin will start in October.

Round of applause for Goodwin and all the firms that are starting in the Fall. I fully intend to ward any law students away from firms that defer to January once OCI comes around....

Yes, Skadden and STB are clearly inferior firms to Goodwin

Students with offers from Skadden and STB will also likely have offers from Cravath, S&C, Kirkland, Latham, DPW, Gibson Dunn, etc., none of which deferred. They probably won't be deciding between Skadden/STB and Goodwin, so that's likely not what the anon poster's advice was meant to apply to.

Skadden and STB are extreme examples, but my point is there are numerous other firms that have deferred that are still far superior to Goodwin. Examples include Hogan, Sidley, Cleary, W&C, Ropes, PH, MoFo, OMM, Cooley, Akin, A&P, Orrick, MB, Munger etc.

Goodwin was the most notorious stealther during this whole thing. Goodwin is trash. If you had to pick between a firm that laid off associates but allowed incoming associates to start on time or vice versa, any rational person would pick the latter.

Is there a reason you're so opposed to Goodwin besides the stealth layoffs? Not trying to argue, just wondering because I'm considering a lateral move there (hence anon).

I echo Anon115523's sentiments that Goodwin is trash. The stealths are not unique to this year - it's a volume shop that relies on a revolving door of associates. As a result, turnover is insane and the quality of work is terrible. At least in my experience, exit options are virtually non-existent - of the many people that I have seen leave, the vast majority went to small firms, non-legal jobs, or just "took a long vacation". I did not see anyone leave to go in house, and only saw two people leave for other big law firms.

In addition to the above, they regularly screw over associates on comp (e.g., make them sit back a class year, give them below market/no bonus). Would recommend avoiding if you can.

[Anonymous User]

Goodwin will start in October.

Round of applause for Goodwin and all the firms that are starting in the Fall. I fully intend to ward any law students away from firms that defer to January once OCI comes around....

Yes, Skadden and STB are clearly inferior firms to Goodwin

Students with offers from Skadden and STB will also likely have offers from Cravath, S&C, Kirkland, Latham, DPW, Gibson Dunn, etc., none of which deferred. They probably won't be deciding between Skadden/STB and Goodwin, so that's likely not what the anon poster's advice was meant to apply to.

Skadden and STB are extreme examples, but my point is there are numerous other firms that have deferred that are still far superior to Goodwin. Examples include Hogan, Sidley, Cleary, W&C, Ropes, PH, MoFo, OMM, Cooley, Akin, A&P, Orrick, MB, Munger etc.

Goodwin was the most notorious stealther during this whole thing. Goodwin is trash. If you had to pick between a firm that laid off associates but allowed incoming associates to start on time or vice versa, any rational person would pick the latter.

Is there a reason you're so opposed to Goodwin besides the stealth layoffs? Not trying to argue, just wondering because I'm considering a lateral move there (hence anon).

I echo Anon115523's sentiments that Goodwin is trash. The stealths are not unique to this year - it's a volume shop that relies on a revolving door of associates. As a result, turnover is insane and the quality of work is terrible. At least in my experience, exit options are virtually non-existent - of the many people that I have seen leave, the vast majority went to small firms, non-legal jobs, or just "took a long vacation". I did not see anyone leave to go in house, and only saw two people leave for other big law firms.

In addition to the above, they regularly screw over associates on comp (e.g., make them sit back a class year, give them below market/no bonus). Would recommend avoiding if you can.

Anon here. Thanks for this. Would you mind saying which office(s) you've interacted with? I'm on the East Coast, but I've only heard positive things about their work in Boston and the valley.

[Anonymous User]

Round of applause for Goodwin and all the firms that are starting in the Fall. I fully intend to ward any law students away from firms that defer to January once OCI comes around....

Yes, Skadden and STB are clearly inferior firms to Goodwin

Students with offers from Skadden and STB will also likely have offers from Cravath, S&C, Kirkland, Latham, DPW, Gibson Dunn, etc., none of which deferred. They probably won't be deciding between Skadden/STB and Goodwin, so that's likely not what the anon poster's advice was meant to apply to.

Skadden and STB are extreme examples, but my point is there are numerous other firms that have deferred that are still far superior to Goodwin. Examples include Hogan, Sidley, Cleary, W&C, Ropes, PH, MoFo, OMM, Cooley, Akin, A&P, Orrick, MB, Munger etc.

Goodwin was the most notorious stealther during this whole thing. Goodwin is trash. If you had to pick between a firm that laid off associates but allowed incoming associates to start on time or vice versa, any rational person would pick the latter.

Is there a reason you're so opposed to Goodwin besides the stealth layoffs? Not trying to argue, just wondering because I'm considering a lateral move there (hence anon).

I echo Anon115523's sentiments that Goodwin is trash. The stealths are not unique to this year - it's a volume shop that relies on a revolving door of associates. As a result, turnover is insane and the quality of work is terrible. At least in my experience, exit options are virtually non-existent - of the many people that I have seen leave, the vast majority went to small firms, non-legal jobs, or just "took a long vacation". I did not see anyone leave to go in house, and only saw two people leave for other big law firms.

In addition to the above, they regularly screw over associates on comp (e.g., make them sit back a class year, give them below market/no bonus). Would recommend avoiding if you can.

Anon here. Thanks for this. Would you mind saying which office(s) you've interacted with? I'm on the East Coast, but I've only heard positive things about their work in Boston and the valley.

Can't speak to SV/SF, but I've worked pretty extensively with the East Coast offices (including Boston).

[TUwave]

Goodwin will start in October.

Round of applause for Goodwin and all the firms that are starting in the Fall. I fully intend to ward any law students away from firms that defer to January once OCI comes around....

Yes, Skadden and STB are clearly inferior firms to Goodwin

Students with offers from Skadden and STB will also likely have offers from Cravath, S&C, Kirkland, Latham, DPW, Gibson Dunn, etc., none of which deferred. They probably won't be deciding between Skadden/STB and Goodwin, so that's likely not what the anon poster's advice was meant to apply to.

Skadden and STB are extreme examples, but my point is there are numerous other firms that have deferred that are still far superior to Goodwin. Examples include Hogan, Sidley, Cleary, W&C, Ropes, PH, MoFo, OMM, Cooley, Akin, A&P, Orrick, MB, Munger etc.

Goodwin was the most notorious stealther during this whole thing. Goodwin is trash. If you had to pick between a firm that laid off associates but allowed incoming associates to start on time or vice versa, any rational person would pick the latter.

Is there a reason you're so opposed to Goodwin besides the stealth layoffs? Not trying to argue, just wondering because I'm considering a lateral move there (hence anon).

I echo Anon115523's sentiments that Goodwin is trash. The stealths are not unique to this year - it's a volume shop that relies on a revolving door of associates. As a result, turnover is insane and the quality of work is terrible. At least in my experience, exit options are virtually non-existent - of the many people that I have seen leave, the vast majority went to small firms, non-legal jobs, or just "took a long vacation". I did not see anyone leave to go in house, and only saw two people leave for other big law firms.

In addition to the above, they regularly screw over associates on comp (e.g., make them sit back a class year, give them below market/no bonus). Would recommend avoiding if you can.

So you worked at Goodwin and didn’t see anyone that left go in-house? I’m gonna call bullshit on that one.

[Anonymous User]

Round of applause for Goodwin and all the firms that are starting in the Fall. I fully intend to ward any law students away from firms that defer to January once OCI comes around....

Yes, Skadden and STB are clearly inferior firms to Goodwin

Students with offers from Skadden and STB will also likely have offers from Cravath, S&C, Kirkland, Latham, DPW, Gibson Dunn, etc., none of which deferred. They probably won't be deciding between Skadden/STB and Goodwin, so that's likely not what the anon poster's advice was meant to apply to.

Skadden and STB are extreme examples, but my point is there are numerous other firms that have deferred that are still far superior to Goodwin. Examples include Hogan, Sidley, Cleary, W&C, Ropes, PH, MoFo, OMM, Cooley, Akin, A&P, Orrick, MB, Munger etc.

Goodwin was the most notorious stealther during this whole thing. Goodwin is trash. If you had to pick between a firm that laid off associates but allowed incoming associates to start on time or vice versa, any rational person would pick the latter.

Is there a reason you're so opposed to Goodwin besides the stealth layoffs? Not trying to argue, just wondering because I'm considering a lateral move there (hence anon).

I echo Anon115523's sentiments that Goodwin is trash. The stealths are not unique to this year - it's a volume shop that relies on a revolving door of associates. As a result, turnover is insane and the quality of work is terrible. At least in my experience, exit options are virtually non-existent - of the many people that I have seen leave, the vast majority went to small firms, non-legal jobs, or just "took a long vacation". I did not see anyone leave to go in house, and only saw two people leave for other big law firms.

In addition to the above, they regularly screw over associates on comp (e.g., make them sit back a class year, give them below market/no bonus). Would recommend avoiding if you can.

So you worked at Goodwin and didn’t see anyone that left go in-house? I’m gonna call bullshit on that one.

That's correct, I did not see anyone that left to go in-house. I'm not saying that no one from Goodwin has ever gone in-house, but I was giving my personal opinion/experience (and was careful to qualify that it was my experience).

[Anonymous User]

Any incoming associates applying to other firms during this craziness? Not feeling the way my regional (AM100) firm has treated my incoming class during this pandemic. Also, does anyone recommend the proper way to reach out to these firms? should I be contacting partners who are alum at my school? And should I be waiting till after the bar exam in October to do this?

[Anonymous User]

Any incoming associates applying to other firms during this craziness? Not feeling the way my regional (AM100) firm has treated my incoming class during this pandemic. Also, does anyone recommend the proper way to reach out to these firms? should I be contacting partners who are alum at my school? And should I be waiting till after the bar exam in October to do this?

Entry-level hiring at most AmLaw100 and AmLaw 200 firms is at a standstill right now. For now, be thankful that you have a job (even if you were deferred), and if you end up continuing to be unhappy after you start, look to lateral in a year or two.