New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[rpupkin]

Soooo

billed 40+ hours first three days including 8 on weekend on single matter. Haven't billed a minute in 5 days since. Everyone says group (small, specialized within a NYC mega-firm) is very slow right now. But I think the other 1st-years are doing more work, just cuz they caught more long-term deals.

Should I ask for work?? Everyone tells me it's a terrible idea but just cuz it's my first month on the job...

If everyone at your firm is telling you it's a terrible idea to ask for work, then I don't know why you would do it.

At the two firms I worked at, you could bill 20 hours in your first month and no one would bat an eye. Although there are exceptions (and we've seen examples of those exceptions in this thread), firms generally expect first-years to start slow.

[rpupkin]

Soooo

billed 40+ hours first three days including 8 on weekend on single matter. Haven't billed a minute in 5 days since. Everyone says group (small, specialized within a NYC mega-firm) is very slow right now. But I think the other 1st-years are doing more work, just cuz they caught more long-term deals.

Should I ask for work?? Everyone tells me it's a terrible idea but just cuz it's my first month on the job...

What the fuck have you been doing for 5 days? There's "let it be slow" but then there's not doing a thing for 5 days.

If he doesn't have billable work, then he doesn't have billable work. Although firms are usually good about making sure that first-years have something to work on when they start, the poster's situation does not seem that unusual to me.

[20160810]

Cruise until January dude

[Desert Fox]

[AReasonableMan]

It is funny that in this profession cruising means working 50 hours a week.

[rpupkin]

I had like 6 straight months with no real billable work to do. A lot of time no case needs another body. And client hate when you just randomly throw a first year on a case. They know it's bullshit.

Right. And that's why if the culture of your firm is such that first-years aren't supposed to go around asking for work, then you shouldn't go around asking for work. If the firm doesn't have anything it can staff a first-year on at the moment, and if you go to partner and ask for billable work, then the partner will have to make work up for you that he'll later have to write-off. It's a nuisance for the partner.

To be clear, if you work at a place where the culture accepts and/or encourages first-years to ask for work when they're slow, then go ask for work. But if it's not that kind of place, you really should just chill.

[AReasonableMan]

Anon would prob be best served just asking one of the first years how they got the assignment they're on, and following suit. If they asked for it then ask. If they got a random e-mail then chill until you get a random e-mail.

[Anonymous User]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

[smaug]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

they're fucking with you

[Danger Zone]

I had like 6 straight months with no real billable work to do. A lot of time no case needs another body. And client hate when you just randomly throw a first year on a case. They know it's bullshit.

Right. And that's why if the culture of your firm is such that first-years aren't supposed to go around asking for work, then you shouldn't go around asking for work. If the firm doesn't have anything it can staff a first-year on at the moment, and if you go to partner and ask for billable work, then the partner will have to make work up for you that he'll later have to write-off. It's a nuisance for the partner.

To be clear, if you work at a place where the culture accepts and/or encourages first-years to ask for work when they're slow, then go ask for work. But if it's not that kind of place, you really should just chill.

What if the culture is conflicting, i.e. Partners say always ask for work and never do nothing (BILL BABY BILL) but associates say enjoy the downtime (as they stare at you with weary eyes and look dead inside)

[dixiecupdrinking]

I had like 6 straight months with no real billable work to do. A lot of time no case needs another body. And client hate when you just randomly throw a first year on a case. They know it's bullshit.

Right. And that's why if the culture of your firm is such that first-years aren't supposed to go around asking for work, then you shouldn't go around asking for work. If the firm doesn't have anything it can staff a first-year on at the moment, and if you go to partner and ask for billable work, then the partner will have to make work up for you that he'll later have to write-off. It's a nuisance for the partner.

To be clear, if you work at a place where the culture accepts and/or encourages first-years to ask for work when they're slow, then go ask for work. But if it's not that kind of place, you really should just chill.

What if the culture is conflicting, i.e. Partners say always ask for work and never do nothing (BILL BABY BILL) but associates say enjoy the downtime (as they stare at you with weary eyes and look dead inside)

You will never meet their expectations. Don't bother.

[rpupkin]

I had like 6 straight months with no real billable work to do. A lot of time no case needs another body. And client hate when you just randomly throw a first year on a case. They know it's bullshit.

Right. And that's why if the culture of your firm is such that first-years aren't supposed to go around asking for work, then you shouldn't go around asking for work. If the firm doesn't have anything it can staff a first-year on at the moment, and if you go to partner and ask for billable work, then the partner will have to make work up for you that he'll later have to write-off. It's a nuisance for the partner.

To be clear, if you work at a place where the culture accepts and/or encourages first-years to ask for work when they're slow, then go ask for work. But if it's not that kind of place, you really should just chill.

What if the culture is conflicting, i.e. Partners say always ask for work and never do nothing (BILL BABY BILL) but associates say enjoy the downtime (as they stare at you with weary eyes and look dead inside)

Eh, I'd trust the associates on this topic. But if the partners always say ask for work, and if you're anxious about your lack of billables during your first few weeks (even though you shouldn't be), then go right ahead and ask a partner for work.

[rpupkin]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

You'll get over that pretty quick.

[Mr. Fancy]

I met a guy at a conference last week who is a biglaw midlevel who has gotten himself a huge book of business by attending trade shows for a specialized industry and setting himself up as the attorney who services that industry. It was pretty impressive considering my business development has been... less impactful.

To pull something like this off, you generally need a firm with low billing rates. I bet that midlevel was not at a V10.

In one sense, it's ironic that folks interested in exit options target the highest ranked Vault firms, as it's much harder to build a book of business at those places.

You can just do the work yourself so you can control the bill.

[Anonymous User]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

You'll get over that pretty quick.

Only been the opposite so far. These people hustled 180 for 40 years, and still don't let up. I'm a hard worker, but would have retired after the first million. Most partners probably get more respect in their communities than at these firms where bringing in ten million of business of year doesn't make you a big shot so while it may be insane to stay till old age, you gotta respect the hustle.

[Danger Zone]

I can't respect people that value work over everything else, especially when work is as mundane as being a lawyer.

[rpupkin]

I met a guy at a conference last week who is a biglaw midlevel who has gotten himself a huge book of business by attending trade shows for a specialized industry and setting himself up as the attorney who services that industry. It was pretty impressive considering my business development has been... less impactful.

To pull something like this off, you generally need a firm with low billing rates. I bet that midlevel was not at a V10.

In one sense, it's ironic that folks interested in exit options target the highest ranked Vault firms, as it's much harder to build a book of business at those places.

You can just do the work yourself so you can control the bill.

Good luck with that in big law.

[baal hadad]

By way of update involving the secretary who ignored my collegiality and seemed to hate me, turns out she got laid off the day I introduced myself smiling widely. In retrospect, it's all lolzy in a tragic irony kind of way.

That is sorta funny

[los blancos]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

You'll get over that pretty quick.

Only been the opposite so far. These people hustled 180 for 40 years, and still don't let up. I'm a hard worker, but would have retired after the first million. Most partners probably get more respect in their communities than at these firms where bringing in ten million of business of year doesn't make you a big shot so while it may be insane to stay till old age, you gotta respect the hustle.

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

[Anonymous User]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

You'll get over that pretty quick.

Only been the opposite so far. These people hustled 180 for 40 years, and still don't let up. I'm a hard worker, but would have retired after the first million. Most partners probably get more respect in their communities than at these firms where bringing in ten million of business of year doesn't make you a big shot so while it may be insane to stay till old age, you gotta respect the hustle.

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

Compared to an aid worker risking their life to help Coptic Christians fleeing from ISIS, maybe not. Compared to the average American, it absolutely is. Their abnormal hustle is why you and me have jobs, and aren't chasing ambulances and giving handies to pay rent.

[rpupkin]

Compared to an aid worker risking their life to help Coptic Christians fleeing from ISIS, maybe not. Compared to the average American, it absolutely is. Their abnormal hustle is why you and me have jobs, and aren't chasing ambulances and giving handies to pay rent.

That only makes sense if their "abnormal hustle" actually creates legal jobs on net--e.g., by increasing overall demand for legal services. But I don't think it works like that.

[s1m4]

I find it mildly annoying when partners 60+ try to bond with millennials by using phrases like "cool dude, ""kawabunga, man" and "rock out, bro." I have a great deal of respect for these people and all they've accomplished, but it's like I work in a Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles episode.

You'll get over that pretty quick.

Only been the opposite so far. These people hustled 180 for 40 years, and still don't let up. I'm a hard worker, but would have retired after the first million. Most partners probably get more respect in their communities than at these firms where bringing in ten million of business of year doesn't make you a big shot so while it may be insane to stay till old age, you gotta respect the hustle.

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

What do you mean its not admirable?

[Cogburn87]

What do you mean its not admirable?

(Max Weber)

[Anonymous User]

Compared to an aid worker risking their life to help Coptic Christians fleeing from ISIS, maybe not. Compared to the average American, it absolutely is. Their abnormal hustle is why you and me have jobs, and aren't chasing ambulances and giving handies to pay rent.

That only makes sense if their "abnormal hustle" actually creates legal jobs on net--e.g., by increasing overall demand for legal services. But I don't think it works like that.

I'm speaking about for you personally, not the legal profession. Your definition of virtue is kinda communist bro, which I guess fits in with the whole anti-boomer thing because they came up during the whole 'nam thing.

[rpupkin]

Compared to an aid worker risking their life to help Coptic Christians fleeing from ISIS, maybe not. Compared to the average American, it absolutely is. Their abnormal hustle is why you and me have jobs, and aren't chasing ambulances and giving handies to pay rent.

That only makes sense if their "abnormal hustle" actually creates legal jobs on net--e.g., by increasing overall demand for legal services. But I don't think it works like that.

I'm speaking about for you personally, not the legal profession. Your definition of virtue is kinda communist bro, which I guess fits in with the whole anti-boomer thing because they came up during the whole 'nam thing.

I never said anything about "virtue." I think you're confusing me with another poster.