How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[Cornelius]

This is outrageously helpful: thank you.

The tax issue is where things break down for me, because I just don't know that much about it. The SO has no debt and there won't be any chilluns for quite a while, so scenario 1 makes more sense. I'm going to call the schools now and figure this out with them. You've given me a great primer here from which to ask questions. It's wild to think the SO could work part time as a nurse and have us come out ahead with regards to take home pay.

All right, back to the regularly scheduled job hunt. Sorry to barge in here, but I figured if anyone could help, it would be you lot. Maybe I'll be joining you soon.

Thanks again!

Keep in mind how complicated it can get. The formula is, I believe, you pay 10% of the amount by which your income exceeds 150% of the poverty line for your family size.

Therefore, the less money your wife makes, the less beneficial it is to utilize married filing separate. For example, if you make $50,000 and your wife makes $25,000, then your payment if filing jointly would be $440 (or so) a month, while married filing separate would be $280, a difference of about $1,900 over the course of the year. The loss of the student loan interest deduction by itself would be about $700.

My general conclusion from my rudimentary research is that, for many people, IBR would almost assuredly make it beneficial to file separately unless you have a couple kids. Could get tricky with itemization of deductions, though.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because people at my school know I'm gunning for PD and not many of us post here.

Anyway- are there any good blogs/sites that someone interested in prosecution/PD should frequent? I'd like to keep up with the "industry" but don't know where to look besides for regular news outlets.

[Anonymous User]

Firing this back up again to ask opinions of people that have worked in the Bay Area. Is anyone able to compare experiences or knowledge of the surrounding PD offices, such as Contra Costa vs. San Fransisco?

[Anonymous User]

Firing this back up again to ask opinions of people that have worked in the Bay Area. Is anyone able to compare experiences or knowledge of the surrounding PD offices, such as Contra Costa vs. San Fransisco?

I worked in the Alameda County DA summer program and have experience going against PDs in the area. I'm not sure what I can tell you, but I talked to a lot of them.

[Anonymous User]

Firing this back up again to ask opinions of people that have worked in the Bay Area. Is anyone able to compare experiences or knowledge of the surrounding PD offices, such as Contra Costa vs. San Fransisco?

SFPD attorneys tend to be arrogant compared to other offices

but YMMV, I'm only basing this off of 3 of 4 SFPD's I have met.

EDIT to add: they also don't let you do much substantive court room work as an intern. Over the summer they have around 90 interns for 100 or so attorneys so there isn't as much interesting work.

Other offices like Contra Costa and Marin let you make court appearances, and have a smaller Intern:PD ratio.

[Anonymous User]

Wow are there really only 10 more lawyers than interns at SFPD? Maybe all the free labor is why they can pay their attorneys so much... jk

SO I'm only a 1L but I have a couple of neurotic questions. I've been pretty slow at getting my application materials out but have been getting a few out the past few days. My top choice would be the San Diego PD since it is where I'm from. I have an offer at the Ventura PD and am really happy about that. I've been rejected from LA PD.

I haven't applied to any of the Bay Area PDs I planned on doing this today but after the offer from Ventura I'm not sure if this an ok thing to do. They said they would keep the position open for me for a while (in my mind until I hear from SD). Would it be really lame to keep applying to other stuff? Do PD offices communicate with each other?

Im also wondering how where you spend your first summer plays into other jobs you can get in the future. Do the Bay Area offices really like to see people with Bay Area ties? I know positions in the Bay are super competitive and like striking gold but due to my SO's career path I will be shooting for these really hard after law school. Do I really need to try and get a bay area gig this summer if want to possibly work there next summer-> after I graduate (I have no bay area ties)

Also if anyone has experience with the Ventura PD and cares to share that would be awesome.

Thanks a ton for any advice, sorry for such a long post.

[Anonymous User]

Wow are there really only 10 more lawyers than interns at SFPD? Maybe all the free labor is why they can pay their attorneys so much... jk

SO I'm only a 1L but I have a couple of neurotic questions. I've been pretty slow at getting my application materials out but have been getting a few out the past few days. My top choice would be the San Diego PD since it is where I'm from. I have an offer at the Ventura PD and am really happy about that. I've been rejected from LA PD.

I haven't applied to any of the Bay Area PDs I planned on doing this today but after the offer from Ventura I'm not sure if this an ok thing to do. They said they would keep the position open for me for a while (in my mind until I hear from SD). Would it be really lame to keep applying to other stuff? Do PD offices communicate with each other?

Im also wondering how where you spend your first summer plays into other jobs you can get in the future. Do the Bay Area offices really like to see people with Bay Area ties? I know positions in the Bay are super competitive and like striking gold but due to my SO's career path I will be shooting for these really hard after law school. Do I really need to try and get a bay area gig this summer if want to possibly work there next summer-> after I graduate (I have no bay area ties)

Also if anyone has experience with the Ventura PD and cares to share that would be awesome.

Thanks a ton for any advice, sorry for such a long post.

I'm the Alameda anon from above, based on what I gathered talking to PDs and interns for Alameda, its not a prerequisite, but it kind of lines up that way because like 90% of their class is from local schools.

[seatown12]

My top choice would be the San Diego PD since it is where I'm from. I have an offer at the Ventura PD and am really happy about that
...
I haven't applied to any of the Bay Area PDs I planned on doing this today but after the offer from Ventura I'm not sure if this an ok thing to do. They said they would keep the position open for me for a while (in my mind until I hear from SD).
...
Do I really need to try and get a bay area gig this summer if want to possibly work there next summer-> after I graduate (I have no bay area ties)

I think you should stick with Ventura. You won't foreclose the possibility of working in the Bay Area 2L year, and in a smaller office you'll have a better chance to get to know attorneys who can provide a reference for you.

Plus, at this point it's probably too late for you to get a job in the Bay anyway. Apply EARLY next year.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the Alameda anon from above, based on what I gathered talking to PDs and interns for Alameda, its not a prerequisite, but it kind of lines up that way because like 90% of their class is from local schools.

I'm the Anon with all the questions. According to their websites Alameda and SF aren't taking 1Ls so I'd be shooting for Marin, Santa Clara, and Contra Costa. Since those offices are even smaller they are probably full, but maybe still worth the app? I think I'll probably end up in ventura. They also said first to commit gets first pick for work so it sounds like I'll get a good substantive experience. I also kinda think working at a small office might demonstrate dedication to the cause and would maybe help with apps to the bay area next year.

Thanks for all the help

[Anonymous User]

I'm the Alameda anon from above, based on what I gathered talking to PDs and interns for Alameda, its not a prerequisite, but it kind of lines up that way because like 90% of their class is from local schools.

I'm the Anon with all the questions. According to their websites Alameda and SF aren't taking 1Ls so I'd be shooting for Marin, Santa Clara, and Contra Costa. Since those offices are even smaller they are probably full, but maybe still worth the app? I think I'll probably end up in ventura. They also said first to commit gets first pick for work so it sounds like I'll get a good substantive experience. I also kinda think working at a small office might demonstrate dedication to the cause and would maybe help with apps to the bay area next year.

Thanks for all the help

I know a lot of people (myself included) have been led to believe that SF doesn't accept 1L's, but that's patently false. It really depends on who you contact. I just accepted at Contra Costa, but if I hadn't had that opportunity I would have planned to gun hard for SF. I was advised by people who worked there as 1L's to directly contact attorneys who are alums of your school and ask to work with them over the summer. Apparently it's perfectly kosher to do this, no formal application required.

[Anonymous User]

Hey do you think it is too late to do this? It would be awesome if I could work there. Do you think the same goes for Alameda?

[Anonymous User]

Hey do you think it is too late to do this? It would be awesome if I could work there. Do you think the same goes for Alameda?

No idea about Alameda, but I was only told to ask SFPD attorneys directly last night, so I assume there's still time.

[Anonymous User]

Awesome dude thanks a ton

[Causality]

Hey, guys.

This is a really great thread. As someone interested in PD work, it's been super-helpful. However, I haven't seen anyone weigh in on the relative merits of summer jobs at state/city PD's offices vs. federal defender's offices.

I'm a 1L with an offer from a Federal Public Defender's office (habeas capital unit). I also have the option of interning with the PD's office in the mid-sized city near school.

My ultimate goal is to gun for Cook County PD 2L summer and try to work my way into a 3L interview for a post-graduation gig there. Which seems like an extremely difficult and maybe unrealistic goal.

With that in mind, would it be smarter to do the PD's office this summer? The federal defender's office will mainly be researching and writing. And they don't hire fresh grads. The PD's office here hires annually (including new grads), so it could work as a fallback if I strike out elsewhere. The experience might be more practical/qualitative, too, depending on the division I'm placed. So maybe more applicable to frontline PD work?

Do non-appellate public defense outfits even care about FPD's offices?

Any thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Hey, guys.

This is a really great thread. As someone interested in PD work, it's been super-helpful. However, I haven't seen anyone weigh in on the relative merits of summer jobs at state/city PD's offices vs. federal defender's offices.

I'm a 1L with an offer from a Federal Public Defender's office (habeas capital unit). I also have the option of interning with the PD's office in the mid-sized city near school.

My ultimate goal is to gun for Cook County PD 2L summer and try to work my way into a 3L interview for a post-graduation gig there. Which seems like an extremely difficult and maybe unrealistic goal.

With that in mind, would it be smarter to do the PD's office this summer? The federal defender's office will mainly be researching and writing. And they don't hire fresh grads. The PD's office here hires annually (including new grads), so it could work as a fallback if I strike out elsewhere. The experience might be more practical/qualitative, too, depending on the division I'm placed. So maybe more applicable to frontline PD work?

Do non-appellate public defense outfits even care about FPD's offices?

Any thoughts?

Congratulations on having some fantastic choices! I think with your goals that the PD will be the best bet. The reality is (generally speaking) that most post-conviction relief agencies will give you very little, if any courtroom exposure. The benefit is that you will likely end up with a great writing sample, and you will probably work on a serious case involving high stakes (e.g. a murder conviction) and possibly get to meet your client, which is a pretty amazing experience. Also, the agencies tend only to hire experienced lawyers, and there tend to be substantially less slots, so the fact that you may make a great impression over the summer almost certainly won't lead to a job (although, of course, your supervising attorneys surely have contacts they can put you in touch with).

Having worked at a similar agency as a 1L, I can tell you that 90%+ of your time will be spent on Westlaw/on Word. You'll have to determine what is best for you, but I found the experience could get very boring, notwithstanding some of the benefits.

Either way, you have great options and are off to a good start.

Edit: just wanted to add, there are definitely rewards to working in capital habeas, but be mindful of the fact that it moves slowwwwllyyy, so recognize at the outset that no significant event may occur with respect to your client's case over the summer. just so you don't consider that the metric by which to measure your summer.

[seatown12]

Like the guy above me mentioned, federal habeas cases move slowly and you will have less diversity in your assignments. The PD will give you a better chance to have a wide range of experiences including courtroom observation, client interaction, and also research/writing. An important goal of a 1L internship is to have good stuff to talk about in interviews for 2L internships and post-grad jobs, so I'd recommend the PD.

[leobowski]

Hey, guys.

This is a really great thread. As someone interested in PD work, it's been super-helpful. However, I haven't seen anyone weigh in on the relative merits of summer jobs at state/city PD's offices vs. federal defender's offices.

I'm a 1L with an offer from a Federal Public Defender's office (habeas capital unit). I also have the option of interning with the PD's office in the mid-sized city near school.

My ultimate goal is to gun for Cook County PD 2L summer and try to work my way into a 3L interview for a post-graduation gig there. Which seems like an extremely difficult and maybe unrealistic goal.

With that in mind, would it be smarter to do the PD's office this summer? The federal defender's office will mainly be researching and writing. And they don't hire fresh grads. The PD's office here hires annually (including new grads), so it could work as a fallback if I strike out elsewhere. The experience might be more practical/qualitative, too, depending on the division I'm placed. So maybe more applicable to frontline PD work?

Do non-appellate public defense outfits even care about FPD's offices?

Any thoughts?

Either one would be a good choice given your career goals. I did fed defender 1L summer, state PD 2L summer, and ended up with an offer from the state PD. The state PD might be slightly advantageous in that you will get more contacts somewhere that could result in post-graduate employment. Don't worry about it too much.

[Jeremyl]

Hey guys,

I've been a long time follower of the site and think this thread is gold. Im currently a 2L in a Texas school and have been gunning for a DA position out of law school since I started. I have seen a bunch about Cali DA/PD offices, but I was wondering if anyone knew how major Texas offices were fairing. If not, what is the best way to determine if a particular office is on a hiring freeze or not?

[Anonymous User]

Local DA office called me earlier today while I was in class and now it's after business hours (I'll just call back when I know they're there.) Already interviewed with them, now the head of a division I'm interested wants to talk. No clue if it's an offer, a phone interview, or arrangement for further interview. All I now is I am damn excited and damn nervous!

[llachans]

I'm interested in Iowa, which gives in-state to students that accept RA positions. Would an RA position over 1L summer hinder my work experience needed to eventually work for a prosecutor?

[Jeremyl]

I'm interested in Iowa, which gives in-state to students that accept RA positions. Would an RA position over 1L summer hinder my work experience needed to eventually work for a prosecutor?

I don't really know but I wouldn't think so too much, especially if you research a crim/crim pro topic. Could you not research at night and intern during the day?

[seatown12]

I'm interested in Iowa, which gives in-state to students that accept RA positions. Would an RA position over 1L summer hinder my work experience needed to eventually work for a prosecutor?

Probably yes. Do you want to live in Iowa? Because if not pursue a scholarship at a school where you do want to live.

[mediadude88]

You should do some research into the DA offices you're interested in. An RA position isn't going to give you the highly-valued courtroom/trial experience that a DA/PD/trial judge internship would provide. That being said, there are some offices that do entry-level hiring in their appellate divisions. If you're looking at an office like that and you do assist on crim law/pro topics, you would be attractive to them. Alternately, you could try interning part-time 2L fall or spring in an appellate division and then leverage that for 2L summer trial which does most of the entry level hiring.

[llachans]

Thanks for all of the input guys! It's a ways off but I'm just weighing my potential future options. And I did my undergrad at Iowa and loved it. I'd be happy having a career there.

[reformed calvinist]

Local DA office called me earlier today while I was in class and now it's after business hours (I'll just call back when I know they're there.) Already interviewed with them, now the head of a division I'm interested wants to talk. No clue if it's an offer, a phone interview, or arrangement for further interview. All I now is I am damn excited and damn nervous!

What are DA office interviews generally like? I have one coming up soon.