Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had? Forum

[dixiecupdrinking]

The money is good, but it's value is substantially, if not totally negated by the debt load combined with the average tenure of a biglaw associate.

You are too busy to enjoy life with the money you are making, and you're not really saving any of it either, because it's all going to dig yourself out of your law school debt hole. It would be one thing if you could pack all that money away for a down payment on a house, but that's not happening. Especially given the housing costs in your typical Biglaw city.

This I agree with. It's not worth going to law school for by any means.

[Anonymous User]

The money is good, but it's value is substantially, if not totally negated by the debt load combined with the average tenure of a biglaw associate.

You are too busy to enjoy life with the money you are making, and you're not really saving any of it either, because it's all going to dig yourself out of your law school debt hole. It would be one thing if you could pack all that money away for a down payment on a house, but that's not happening. Especially given the housing costs in your typical Biglaw city.

This I agree with. It's not worth going to law school for by any means.

On the other hand, does this mean if a debt load is relatively small (<50K) then it would be worth it to give up few years of happiness to work in biglaw and save up some dough?

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

Eating out in NYC is a lot more expensive than eating out in flyover - I would know, since that's pretty much how I eat every meal, and I have lived in flyover, NYC, and California, etc.

[dixiecupdrinking]

The money is good, but it's value is substantially, if not totally negated by the debt load combined with the average tenure of a biglaw associate.

You are too busy to enjoy life with the money you are making, and you're not really saving any of it either, because it's all going to dig yourself out of your law school debt hole. It would be one thing if you could pack all that money away for a down payment on a house, but that's not happening. Especially given the housing costs in your typical Biglaw city.

This I agree with. It's not worth going to law school for by any means.

On the other hand, does this mean if a debt load is relatively small (<50K) then it would be worth it to give up few years of happiness to work in biglaw and save up some dough?

Sure. Depends on your priorities.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

That's fine man, so why don't you move to SD? The job sucks in a lot of ways but considering the main reason people stay is the money, I just don't get why the money pisses anyone off.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

That's fine man, so why don't you move to SD? The job sucks in a lot of ways but considering the main reason people stay is the money, I just don't get why the money pisses anyone off.

Spouse wants to stay here for the time being.

NYC is a shithole though - will move in the near future. I think California is by and large more affordable than this place. At least for one million in the Bay Area you could get a house; here it just buys you some really shitty, ugly, ratty one bed apt.

[zot1]

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

Eating out in NYC is a lot more expensive than eating out in flyover - I would know, since that's pretty much how I eat every meal, and I have lived in flyover, NYC, and California, etc.

Your estimate was more generous than mine...

[zot1]

Bay Area real estate has and keeps ballooning out of control. SoCal is still the way to go for the money.

[Anonymous User]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

Eating out in NYC is a lot more expensive than eating out in flyover - I would know, since that's pretty much how I eat every meal, and I have lived in flyover, NYC, and California, etc.

Yes but San Diego doesn't have the capacity to bring in enough business to support many firms so very few of these jobs are available. For big law to work in any locality you either need (1) an arbitrary law that only lets lawyers in the state practice in their courts (i.e. Delaware), (2) major businesses either incorporated or headquartered in the area or (3) be in a location businesses are willing to travel to in order to meet their attorneys face to face. In most cases, a city's cost of living is based first and foremost on the business opportunities available in that city. With the way business and technology are evolving we may reach a point where you can live in San Diego while being employed in New York, but when that point comes the COL will shoot up.

I don't know what the case is now but about a decade ago a lot of German doctors would make day trips to London because they were able to earn 3-4x more of what they earned in Germany because the healthcare subsidies were different. Law doesn't really work this way, because it's more time intensive and likelier to change jurisdiction to jurisdiction than is medicine.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Bay Area real estate has and keeps ballooning out of control. SoCal is still the way to go for the money.

You can still get an okay house in Bay Area for 1 million though.

[Desert Fox]

Bay Area real estate has and keeps ballooning out of control. SoCal is still the way to go for the money.

You can still get an okay house in Bay Area for 1 million though.

You can in the ny area too. SF and MFH no way.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

Eating out in NYC is a lot more expensive than eating out in flyover - I would know, since that's pretty much how I eat every meal, and I have lived in flyover, NYC, and California, etc.

Yes but San Diego doesn't have the capacity to bring in enough business to support many firms so very few of these jobs are available. For big law to work in any locality you either need (1) an arbitrary law that only lets lawyers in the state practice in their courts (i.e. Delaware), (2) major businesses either incorporated or headquartered in the area or (3) be in a location businesses are willing to travel to in order to meet their attorneys face to face. In most cases, a city's cost of living is based first and foremost on the business opportunities available in that city. With the way business and technology are evolving we may reach a point where you can live in San Diego while being employed in New York, but when that point comes the COL will shoot up.

I don't know what the case is now but about a decade ago a lot of German doctors would make day trips to London because they were able to earn 3-4x more of what they earned in Germany because the healthcare subsidies were different. Law doesn't really work this way, because it's more time intensive and likelier to change jurisdiction to jurisdiction than is medicine.

I don't think anyone ITT wants to work in biglaw in San Diego....we're talking about random small firm jobs, gov, in house, or switching professions entirely.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Bay Area real estate has and keeps ballooning out of control. SoCal is still the way to go for the money.

You can still get an okay house in Bay Area for 1 million though.

You can in the ny area too. SF and MFH no way.

Well Bay Area is ten times better than living in the suburbs outside of MFH imo. New York state is pretty ugly.

[Johann]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

That's fine man, so why don't you move to SD? The job sucks in a lot of ways but considering the main reason people stay is the money, I just don't get why the money pisses anyone off.

Spouse wants to stay here for the time being.

NYC is a shithole though - will move in the near future. I think California is by and large more affordable than this place. At least for one million in the Bay Area you could get a house; here it just buys you some really shitty, ugly, ratty one bed apt.

i mean there is actually a website where fucking immaculate castles in europe sell for cheaper than shitholes in NYC.

[SFSpartan]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

That's fine man, so why don't you move to SD? The job sucks in a lot of ways but considering the main reason people stay is the money, I just don't get why the money pisses anyone off.

Spouse wants to stay here for the time being.

NYC is a shithole though - will move in the near future. I think California is by and large more affordable than this place. At least for one million in the Bay Area you could get a house; here it just buys you some really shitty, ugly, ratty one bed apt.

Bay area housing market is nuts - unless you want to live in the East Bay and take the 1 hr+ commute each way that comes with it (or a shithole on the peninsula), I'm not sure where you're gonna get a house for a million. Most of the city/peninsula is priced well above $1M

[Anonymous User]

The money is good, but it's value is substantially, if not totally negated by the debt load combined with the average tenure of a biglaw associate.

You are too busy to enjoy life with the money you are making, and you're not really saving any of it either, because it's all going to dig yourself out of your law school debt hole. It would be one thing if you could pack all that money away for a down payment on a house, but that's not happening. Especially given the housing costs in your typical Biglaw city.

This I agree with. It's not worth going to law school for by any means.

On the other hand, does this mean if a debt load is relatively small (<50K) then it would be worth it to give up few years of happiness to work in biglaw and save up some dough?

Sure. Depends on your priorities.

Just thought I would leave this here in case it is of any interest or use to anyone: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/01/ ... red-at-33/

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Same AP recommending growing up in a dysfunctional family. The flaw with these calculators is they are based on the average grocery store in NYC vs the average grocery store in Boise, etc. This assumes people don't shop at national chains where prices are equivalent throughout the country (eg: Trader Joes, CVS, Amazon, etc.) Outside of rent, NYC really isn't that much more. Granted, rent is a huge expense and is a big part of why I registered with The Rent is Too Damn High political party (http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org), and why I've tried to encourage my coworkers to do the same, which always leads to the follow up question, "Is this real?" The answer is yes, but also that the NYC-everywhere else discrepancy can be overblown.

Given my current lifestyle, I can't see it being that far off.

They're really far off. Even if you assume the price adjustments are correct (which they typically aren't), they also assume you're spending all of your income on consumption. 401k contributions and student loan payments cost the same no matter where you live, and doing biglaw in NYC means you can take an extra $50,000/year or whatever off the top toward those kinds of things before you even start making COL comparisons.

NYC is much more expensive than flyover country but it just doesn't cost 300-400% more.

It's not that far off when you consider that NYC has a goddamn CITY TAX THAT RAPES YOU. Nowhere in flyover taxes you like NYC does.

Also a one bedroom in NYC costs as much as renting a house in San Diego - that's not even real flyover.

Fine, let's just say that 70-80k in flyover is equivalent to 200k in NYC then. That sounds about right, considering a one bedroom in flyover would cost like 1/4th the price of my rent in NYC.

Assuming that I lived the same (one bedroom in flyover and NYC), I could probably even save as much money as I did in flyover than NYC even with a lower salary like that since I'd be spending WAY WAY less on rent, not getting raped with a city tax, and yes, eating out would be cheaper. I'd have a car, but that'd be way, way way less than rent + city tax.

That's fine man, so why don't you move to SD? The job sucks in a lot of ways but considering the main reason people stay is the money, I just don't get why the money pisses anyone off.

Spouse wants to stay here for the time being.

NYC is a shithole though - will move in the near future. I think California is by and large more affordable than this place. At least for one million in the Bay Area you could get a house; here it just buys you some really shitty, ugly, ratty one bed apt.

Bay area housing market is nuts - unless you want to live in the East Bay and take the 1 hr+ commute each way that comes with it (or a shithole on the peninsula), I'm not sure where you're gonna get a house for a million. Most of the city/peninsula is priced well above $1M

My parents have a house in South Bay worth 1 million - ok neighborhood, 2 story house. When I say "Bay Area" I don't just mean SF. South Bay is generally a lot nicer than East Bay as well.

[zot1]

San Diego is awesome and there is some biglaw there. But no one wants to be in biglaw anyway so that doesn't matter.

An office with a view of the water wouldn't be so bad.

Although they may not have an NFL team soon, so that might make or break the decision for some.

[El Pollito]

everything is GREAT

[2014]

No one is giving any credit to the point that loans cost the same everywhere, Im not sure I could even meet my interest expenses without being in a city starting at the NY scale and I couldn't pay my loans in the timeframe I wanted without being one the NY scale for raises.

[zot1]

I think people are though. You could be in California and your COL would be cheaper.

[ballouttacontrol]

I think people are though. You could be in Southern California and your COL would be cheaper.

fixed. Norcal has higher rent. And not only do you live in an expensive as fuck metropolis with higher taxes and a moronically liberal government/voting public that results in EVERYTHING being stupid expensive, but you need a car too.

[zot1]

I think people are though. You could be in Southern California and your COL would be cheaper.

fixed. Norcal has higher rent. And not only do you live in an expensive as fuck metropolis with higher taxes and a moronically liberal government/voting public that results in EVERYTHING being stupid expensive, but you need a car too.

Yeah that was my mistake.

[jrass]

I think people are though. You could be in Southern California and your COL would be cheaper.

fixed. Norcal has higher rent. And not only do you live in an expensive as fuck metropolis with higher taxes and a moronically liberal government/voting public that results in EVERYTHING being stupid expensive, but you need a car too.

There's some overlap between not being able to procreate, and being charitable. Homosexuals have the same psychological needs as heterosexuals, but can't self-actualize by making babies so their options are to either adopt or throw money and charities. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opini ... .html?_r=0 A city like San Francisco is probably likelier to support paying higher taxes for more altruistic social services, and the result of this is you have ridiculous charities like Bubble Baths for Crackheads that drain your income.

[Anonymous User]

Worst parts of biglaw -
- Being on call 24/7; have to drop whatever you're doing to do work that very often stems from poor management (aka senior forgets to tell you to do something). You can rarely make any plans.
- The work itself. I'm not sure why people think this is "intellectually stimulating" or whatever - but I thought a lot more in my math classes in undergrad....a lot of it is grunt, crap work that a junior high student could probably do. It's not so much intellectually stimulating, as it is detail oriented and requires a lot of patience and tolerance.
- The ebbs/flows - you may have a 20 hour week, but then 80 hour week (which burns a lot of people out). Your health is trashed because of the 80 hour week. There are types who don't need more than 4 hours of sleep a night; that's not most people.
- The people. Lots of egotistical and/or debt-ridden/scared people that make for a worse work environment.