New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[rpupkin]

If you never do bad work, never screw over your team and keep a low profile but deck out at 6 whenever possible, is it possible you'll last as long as the truly talented people who give 100% just by being the "ah, yeah, eh, they're okay" associate and slipping through the cracks? People say the goal is to survive big law until you can't, but it could be too many people jump in at 100% instead of 65%?

But that's the problem. If your team has a shitload of work, and if you're "leaving at 6 whenever possible," then you're basically screwing your team.

[El Pollito]

yeah how can you give 65% without fucking people?

[Anonymous User]

By working on fewer cases: never declining work but always keeping your head low so fewer people know who you are.

[rpupkin]

yeah how can you give 65% without fucking people?

Ha. I mean, most lawyers at my firm leave at 6. It's not like the problem with big law is that you can never leave at 6. (Though that does sound like a problem for corporate drones in NYC.)

I'm rarely in the office past 6:30. The problem is that sometimes shit comes up at 5:30 when you were hoping to go home and you end up having to stay until midnight.

[El Pollito]

yeah how can you give 65% without fucking people?

Ha. I mean, most lawyers at my firm leave at 6. It's not like the problem with big law is that you can never leave at 6. (Though that does sound like a problem for corporate drones in NYC.)

I'm rarely in the office past 6:30. The problem is that sometimes shit comes up at 5:30 when you were hoping to go home and you end up having to stay until midnight.

THATS NICE FOR YOU

[rpupkin]

yeah how can you give 65% without fucking people?

Ha. I mean, most lawyers at my firm leave at 6. It's not like the problem with big law is that you can never leave at 6. (Though that does sound like a problem for corporate drones in NYC.)

I'm rarely in the office past 6:30. The problem is that sometimes shit comes up at 5:30 when you were hoping to go home and you end up having to stay until midnight.

THATS NICE FOR YOU

Sorry. Are you the one on pace to bill 2,800 hours this year?

[El Pollito]

god no

[5ky]

i mean, the nature of biglaw corporate sort of precludes your goal, anon. a year ago, i was on a 3000 hour pace for 4+ months, but it was really almost all one matter doing it to me.

you can work on many matters at once in corp, but it is not unusual -- depending on the practice group -- for a single matter to own you for long periods of time.

[rpupkin]

i mean, the nature of biglaw corporate sort of precludes your goal, anon. a year ago, i was on a 3000 hour pace for 4+ months, but it was really almost all one matter doing it to me.

you can work on many matters at once in corp, but it is not unusual -- depending on the practice group -- for a single matter to own you for long periods of time.

Also, I'm not sure how the OP will pull off "working on fewer cases" while "never declining work." If a partner tries to staff you on a case and you say "no," that seems like "declining work" to me.

[Anonymous User]

Corp associate here.

I have caught myself making tons of stupid mistakes similar to the two posted on the previous page. Problem is, this practice is just so fast paced (I do a lot of private company M&A). On a closing, I often find myself making small tweaks and updates to literally like 6 different documents within the span of 15 minutes, running redlines, sending several emails out to different groups and attaching different docs to them, etc. I simply don't have time to double or triple check when things really ramp up.

[5ky]

Corp associate here.

I have caught myself making tons of stupid mistakes similar to the two posted on the previous page. Problem is, this practice is just so fast paced (I do a lot of private company M&A). On a closing, I often find myself making small tweaks and updates to literally like 6 different documents within the span of 15 minutes, running redlines, sending several emails out to different groups and attaching different docs to them, etc. I simply don't have time to double or triple check when things really ramp up.

This is a common belief when you are starting out. Ultimately, it is not true. There is always time to ensure accuracy of docs you are sending out and avoiding careless typos/mistakes.

Accurate and a bit slower is always >>>> typos and a bit faster. It may not feel like it when a senior associate or partner is screaming for the docs to get out the door, but it is.

[LeDique]

John Wooden invented the law motto there: hurry but don't rush

[barkschool]

John Wooden invented the law motto there: hurry but don't rush

https://leadershipfreak.wordpress.com/2 ... hn-wooden/

I feel like a leader now

[CRUNKlestilskin]

Corp associate here.

I have caught myself making tons of stupid mistakes similar to the two posted on the previous page. Problem is, this practice is just so fast paced (I do a lot of private company M&A). On a closing, I often find myself making small tweaks and updates to literally like 6 different documents within the span of 15 minutes, running redlines, sending several emails out to different groups and attaching different docs to them, etc. I simply don't have time to double or triple check when things really ramp up.

but that’s the nature of the assignment that we chose

[20160810]

I met a guy at a conference last week who is a biglaw midlevel who has gotten himself a huge book of business by attending trade shows for a specialized industry and setting himself up as the attorney who services that industry. It was pretty impressive considering my business development has been... less impactful.

[rpupkin]

I met a guy at a conference last week who is a biglaw midlevel who has gotten himself a huge book of business by attending trade shows for a specialized industry and setting himself up as the attorney who services that industry. It was pretty impressive considering my business development has been... less impactful.

To pull something like this off, you generally need a firm with low billing rates. I bet that midlevel was not at a V10.

In one sense, it's ironic that folks interested in exit options target the highest ranked Vault firms, as it's much harder to build a book of business at those places.

[fats provolone]

I met a guy at a conference last week who is a biglaw midlevel who has gotten himself a huge book of business by attending trade shows for a specialized industry and setting himself up as the attorney who services that industry. It was pretty impressive considering my business development has been... less impactful.

To pull something like this off, you generally need a firm with low billing rates. I bet that midlevel was not at a V10.

In one sense, it's ironic that folks interested in exit options target the highest ranked Vault firms, as it's much harder to build a book of business at those places.

why is that ironic

[rpupkin]

I met a guy at a conference last week who is a biglaw midlevel who has gotten himself a huge book of business by attending trade shows for a specialized industry and setting himself up as the attorney who services that industry. It was pretty impressive considering my business development has been... less impactful.

To pull something like this off, you generally need a firm with low billing rates. I bet that midlevel was not at a V10.

In one sense, it's ironic that folks interested in exit options target the highest ranked Vault firms, as it's much harder to build a book of business at those places.

why is that ironic

Because you have more flexibility if you have your own book of business.

[20160810]

Do associate billing rates really vary that much within the same market?

[rpupkin]

Do associate billing rates really vary that much within the same market?

Yes. In LA, for example, there is a significant difference between what, say, Gibson Dunn and MTO charge, on the one hand, and what Manatt charges, on the other.

[20160810]

Well there you go, I guess. Ya dude I met was at a mid-tier biglawl firm.

[Anonymous User]

Soooo

billed 40+ hours first three days including 8 on weekend on single matter. Haven't billed a minute in 5 days since. Everyone says group (small, specialized within a NYC mega-firm) is very slow right now. But I think the other 1st-years are doing more work, just cuz they caught more long-term deals.

Should I ask for work?? Everyone tells me it's a terrible idea but just cuz it's my first month on the job...

[Anonymous User]

By way of update involving the secretary who ignored my collegiality and seemed to hate me, turns out she got laid off the day I introduced myself smiling widely. In retrospect, it's all lolzy in a tragic irony kind of way.

[LeDique]

Soooo

billed 40+ hours first three days including 8 on weekend on single matter. Haven't billed a minute in 5 days since. Everyone says group (small, specialized within a NYC mega-firm) is very slow right now. But I think the other 1st-years are doing more work, just cuz they caught more long-term deals.

Should I ask for work?? Everyone tells me it's a terrible idea but just cuz it's my first month on the job...

What the fuck have you been doing for 5 days? There's "let it be slow" but then there's not doing a thing for 5 days.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think it's that uncommon. Rareish, not uncommon. I know people who went months with no billable matters, then billed 400 hours in a month.