2014 Texas OCI (UT and other schools bidding on TX) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any idea how long the turnaround is from CB to offer for the Houston offices of V&E, BB, Latham, K&E, STB, Akin, or Paul Hastings?

FWIW a classmate of mine has offers from BB, AK, and Latham (all Houston) as of last Thursday (8/28) and all of his callbacks were the week of August 18th. I don't have any specifics beyond that.

Thanks for the info. I guess that gives me some hope. This waiting process is driving me crazy.

[Anonymous User]

I am dying to hear from K&E Houston. Longest Labor Day weekend ever...

[Anonymous User]

I am dying to hear from K&E Houston. Longest Labor Day weekend ever...

Did you interview recently? Seems like they've been quiet this past week.

[Anonymous User]

How do people feel about K&E vs. BB/V&E?

[Anonymous User]

How do people feel about K&E vs. BB/V&E?

I would be wary of K&E only because the office is full of very young attorneys. Their managing partner is only like 32 and their other partners are 4-5 years who got promotions to partner to start the office. The office is also very heavily hedged in PE from what I hear.

OTOH, they are a very ambitious group of people from what I hear, and they seem to want to expand quickly. Seem to want to do what Latham did, only on the PE side.

[Anonymous User]

Do Texas firms do offer dinners? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to accepting an offer earlier than later? Pretty sure I'm just going to accept one i'm pretty set on to free up other cb/offers for others but wanted to know if there was anything I was not thinking about.

[Anonymous User]

Do Texas firms do offer dinners? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to accepting an offer earlier than later? Pretty sure I'm just going to accept one i'm pretty set on to free up other cb/offers for others but wanted to know if there was anything I was not thinking about.

I haven't gotten invites to offer dinners, but I've been asked if I wanted to make second visits. I don't think there's any noticeable advantage/disadvantage to accepting an offer early. I guess a slight advantage would be that you're committed and excited about joining the firm, but I'm not sure if they'd remember that 10 months later. A bigger advantage in my opinion is that you get some closure with this process and can get on with your life.

If you're set on a certain firm and aren't waiting to hear back from places that you might prefer, you should just take the offer and don't look back.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how many offers/no offers McKool gave out to its SA's this summer? Or have any knowledge of previous summers?

[Anonymous User]

How do people feel about K&E vs. BB/V&E?

BB and V&E are much safer bets in that they still have the grip on the huge volume of deals + longstanding connections in Houston. You can't go wrong with two tops firms in the area (you can always lateral out later with those names on your resume, if you wanted to).

[Anonymous User]

How do people feel about K&E vs. BB/V&E?

BB and V&E are much safer bets in that they still have the grip on the huge volume of deals + longstanding connections in Houston. You can't go wrong with two tops firms in the area (you can always lateral out later with those names on your resume, if you wanted to).

Would you say the same thing for BB and V&E vs. Latham?

[Anonymous User]

How do people feel about K&E vs. BB/V&E?

BB and V&E are much safer bets in that they still have the grip on the huge volume of deals + longstanding connections in Houston. You can't go wrong with two tops firms in the area (you can always lateral out later with those names on your resume, if you wanted to).

Would you say the same thing for BB and V&E vs. Latham?

Look at the League tables. Latham is ahead of BB in deal volume and value, and neck and neck with V&E. Word is Latham is trying to expand their office even more than it is now, and thy are supposed to be slammed.

There is a lot of deal volume period though, and Latham has never had to weather an economic down turn in Houston, so there is that as a wild card.

End of the day, I dont think you can go wrong with any of the three. If you have offers from all three, go with the one you liked best and enjoy being done with the job hunting process.

Latham also has never no offered anyone in Houston FWIW.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything from JW (Houston office) after CB?

[Anonymous User]

How do people feel about K&E vs. BB/V&E?

BB and V&E are much safer bets in that they still have the grip on the huge volume of deals + longstanding connections in Houston. You can't go wrong with two tops firms in the area (you can always lateral out later with those names on your resume, if you wanted to).

Would you say the same thing for BB and V&E vs. Latham?

I think Latham is different from K&E because Latham has a proven record over the last few years, and is still exploding. Unlike K&E, I would view a Latham offer as good as BB or V&E, maybe even better depending on how you like the people/office. But yeah, can't go wrong with any of the three. I am sure K&E will be good too, but I don't see why you would go there currently when you have those other, safer offers on the table.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed on the analysis re LW v. VE v. KE. But I would strongly caution against BB - the Houston office isn't nearly the Corporate player it once was. I would rank (mostly focusing on work quality) the Houston Corp groups as follows:

LW/VE

BG/AK

Sidley/KE/BB/STB

Akin/Paul Hastings

NRF/Locke Lord/Jones Day/Mayer Brown

HayBoo/Porter Hedges/Winston & Strawn/TK/Baker & McKenzie

Gardere/Jackson Walker/Winstead/Strasburger

[Anonymous User]

Do you have info on Paul Hastings? I can't find anything about the Houston office on Chambers.

Also, I've heard mixed things about STB. One of the partners I talked to came out and said that they're a satellite office and have no intention of ever being anything but a satellite office, so it doesn't sound like they're going the Latham/K&E aggressive expansion route. But they still obviously have excellent work because of their institutional PE clients, even after losing their rainmaker to K&E.

And is BB really third tier? I could see them being a cut below Latham and V&E, but I didn't realize their standing is that low in Houston.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have info on Paul Hastings? I can't find anything about the Houston office on Chambers.

Also, I've heard mixed things about STB. One of the partners I talked to came out and said that they're a satellite office and have no intention of ever being anything but a satellite office, so it doesn't sound like they're going the Latham/K&E aggressive expansion route. But they still obviously have excellent work because of their institutional PE clients, even after losing their rainmaker to K&E.

And is BB really third tier? I could see them being a cut below Latham and V&E, but I didn't realize their standing is that low in Houston.

My rankings are obviously a bit subjective. But when you compare work quality, I think BG and AK are, at worst, equal to BB, but likely better. And their cultural advantages should make deciding between those firms very easy.

As for STB, I don't think they lost their rainmaker - he's still there. However, they did lose a very talented young lawyer and I agree that it seems like they have no plans to become LW or KE in Houston. Going forward, I fully expect KE to become a big player in Houston, but I don't think they're there yet.

No real info on Paul Hastings... sorry.

[Anonymous User]

Why do any of these "rankings" matter if you're getting paid the same regardless and don't have dreams of world conquest?

[Anonymous User]

Why do any of these "rankings" matter if you're getting paid the same regardless and don't have dreams of world conquest?

Supposedly for nebulous exit options and getting in on the biggest and best work!

But I basically agree with you. I care more about which firms pay NY market + bonus and which do the whole compressed salary scale thing. 160 -> 170 -> 185 -> 210 -> 230 -> 250 vs. something like 160 -> 165 -> 170 -> 175 -> 180 makes a big difference. And it's hard to find info about salary progression after the first year.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have info on Paul Hastings? I can't find anything about the Houston office on Chambers.

Also, I've heard mixed things about STB. One of the partners I talked to came out and said that they're a satellite office and have no intention of ever being anything but a satellite office, so it doesn't sound like they're going the Latham/K&E aggressive expansion route. But they still obviously have excellent work because of their institutional PE clients, even after losing their rainmaker to K&E.

And is BB really third tier? I could see them being a cut below Latham and V&E, but I didn't realize their standing is that low in Houston.

My rankings are obviously a bit subjective. But when you compare work quality, I think BG and AK are, at worst, equal to BB, but likely better. And their cultural advantages should make deciding between those firms very easy.

As for STB, I don't think they lost their rainmaker - he's still there. However, they did lose a very talented young lawyer and I agree that it seems like they have no plans to become LW or KE in Houston. Going forward, I fully expect KE to become a big player in Houston, but I don't think they're there yet.

No real info on Paul Hastings... sorry.

Cool, thanks. Did you put PH in the same tier as AG prospectively, since they've only been around since 2012 and are tiny, or because they already get pretty good work?

[Anonymous User]

Why do any of these "rankings" matter if you're getting paid the same regardless and don't have dreams of world conquest?

Supposedly for nebulous exit options and getting in on the biggest and best work!

But I basically agree with you. I care more about which firms pay NY market + bonus and which do the whole compressed salary scale thing. 160 -> 170 -> 185 -> 210 -> 230 -> 250 vs. something like 160 -> 165 -> 170 -> 175 -> 180 makes a big difference. And it's hard to find info about salary progression after the first year.

I've always wondered about what it means to do biggest and best work for transactional practice. Obviously for litigation there's a huge difference between good/interesting/important work vs shit work, but for transactional does "big" or "best" translate into work that is necessarily more interesting or even educational for the jr associate? For instance, my impression is that at some firms that do "big" work the junior associates may be stuck on doc review or lower-level work for longer than if they worked at a firm that handled lots of smaller deals, where they'd be entrusted with more responsibility earlier on.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have info on Paul Hastings? I can't find anything about the Houston office on Chambers.

Also, I've heard mixed things about STB. One of the partners I talked to came out and said that they're a satellite office and have no intention of ever being anything but a satellite office, so it doesn't sound like they're going the Latham/K&E aggressive expansion route. But they still obviously have excellent work because of their institutional PE clients, even after losing their rainmaker to K&E.

And is BB really third tier? I could see them being a cut below Latham and V&E, but I didn't realize their standing is that low in Houston.

My rankings are obviously a bit subjective. But when you compare work quality, I think BG and AK are, at worst, equal to BB, but likely better. And their cultural advantages should make deciding between those firms very easy.

As for STB, I don't think they lost their rainmaker - he's still there. However, they did lose a very talented young lawyer and I agree that it seems like they have no plans to become LW or KE in Houston. Going forward, I fully expect KE to become a big player in Houston, but I don't think they're there yet.

No real info on Paul Hastings... sorry.

Cool, thanks. Did you put PH in the same tier as AG prospectively, since they've only been around since 2012 and are tiny, or because they already get pretty good work?

A little of both - they have some very smart partners, who I believe bring in pretty good work. They obviously have less work than a firm like Akin in Houston, but I would suspect the work quality is very similar.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard back from Locke Lord's super Thursday last week?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone canceled a scheduled callback yet? Is this best done via email or phone?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone canceled a scheduled callback yet? Is this best done via email or phone?

TLS consensus tends to say over phone but I've done it over email and it seems to be fine.

[Anonymous User]

Thought I'd chime in on this thread. Thanks to all for helpful info and perspectives so far!

HYS 2L, aiming primarily for Austin (husband's job is in Austin), but looking at Houston and Dallas as well. Targeted any firm with an Austin office in Austin, and all the others in Houston, with Dallas as third choice. Results so far:

Offers (turnaround time)
NRF, Austin (5 days, including weekend)
STB, Houston (day of)
K&E, Houston (day of)
Jones Day, Houston (2 days)
Paul Hastings, Houston (2 days)
K&L Gates, Dallas (2 days)

CB, no word yet (days since interview)
V&E, Austin (12 days - expecting a ding)
Sidley, Houston (one week)
Sidley, Dallas (4 days, including long weekend)
AK, Austin (3 days, long weekend)

Dinged, after CB or 1L clerkship
WSGR, Austin
Locke Lord, Austin
Jackson Walker, Austin

(I have an upcoming callback at BB Austin.)

Unsurprisingly, Austin is a super-tough market. I'm sure my 1L clerkship results do not help my case. Really glad to have one Austin offer, although I'm leaning corporate and NRF's Austin office is very light on transactional attorneys, especially corporate. Hoping to land another Austin offer. Crossing fingers for AK, as it's second half and people there are very cool. Not counting my chickens, after bad luck so far.

Right now, of my Houston offers, I'm definitely tempted by K&E - not just the cash bonus, but the top-notch PE work, and the energy and drive of the people. I'm also kind of afraid of the ambition of the office, culturally; and as many have already mentioned on this thread, I'm nervous because the office is so new, and I don't even know what it will look like come the summer. And I'm not sure I will actually like M&A PE work, and that's pretty much all they do! Nervous about STB because they have same type of work, but lost some key people to K&E. They're also keeping the office very NY-style (face time matters!), and growing the office much more conservatively. Not sure what to think about Paul Hastings, honestly. Genuinely like everything about Jones Day, and not sure how it fits into my calculus.

Also, almost all my offers are for first-half only or whole summer, which complicates things considerably. (I guess TX is slowly moving to join the 49 other states and eliminating split summers.)