NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[Pokemon]

If anyone has any insight on how to structure my bidlist, don't be shy

3.45, secondary journal, targeting NY/SF+SV; this is how I've got the first 20 or so ranked.

1. Wilson (SF)
2. Cooley(SF)
3. Gunderson(SF)
4. Kaye Scholer (NY)
5. Omelveny(SF)
6. Fenwick & West(SF)
7. Allen & Overy(NY)
8. Foley & Lardner(SF)
9. Cahill Gordon(NY)
10. Fried Frank(NY)
11. White & Case(NY)
12. Proskauer Rose(NY)
13. Linklaters(NY)
14. Fitzpatrick Cella
15. Milbank(NY)
16. Dechert (NY)
17. Schiff Hardin (SF)
18. Chadbourne & Parke (NY)
19. Alston & Bird (NY)
20. Cadwalader(NY)
21. Pillsbury (SF)

You would be really lucky to get 5-6 NYC firm interviews from my experience last year. I think your bidlist needs more work.
Ok... I know nothing about Cali but am surprised to see Gunderson that high.

Also, this is for everybody, please realize that just as important as the grades, is the size of the class. A firm with median callback GPA of 2.8, but class size of 3 is a firm to avoid if you are at 3.3. Because that firm does not particularly care about grades so you are competing with tons of students for just 3 spots.

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

Just to make sure, are the expected class sizes listed on nalp reliable? I realize that they get info from the firms themselves, I was just surprised to see a lot of what I thought of as bigger firms that only expect to take 3-8 total .

[bdubs]

Just to make sure, are the expected class sizes listed on nalp reliable? I realize that they get info from the firms themselves, I was just surprised to see a lot of what I thought of as bigger firms that only expect to take 3-8 total .

Pretty reliable. I think last year's class sizes are generally the best indicator, not the "expected" class size for next year. A few firms changed their class sizes substantially from year to year, but it was generally known why (big growth or terrible financials).

[Anonymous User]

I am planning on mass mailing firms this weekend. I always thought/assumed that it meant stuffing envelopes, but recently heard that people mean just sending out emails. Am I a fool for thinking that it meant stuffing envelopes? And is it better to do it one way over the other?

[bk1]

I am planning on mass mailing firms this weekend. I always thought/assumed that it meant stuffing envelopes, but recently heard that people mean just sending out emails. Am I a fool for thinking that it meant stuffing envelopes? And is it better to do it one way over the other?

People mean email. People misinterpret it all the time. You should email.

Clarification: it generally just means blasting out applications. The best method depends on where you are applying to. If it's firms, that usually means email. If it's judges, that usually means envelopes. The key is to know your audience even though people use the term "mass mailing" generally.

[rinkrat19]

Anyone going to SFIPLA next weekend?

[IAFG]

If there is one thing I could get all of you all to do, it would be less tinkering with your bid lists and more mass mailing, emailing alumni, scheduling meetings, and learning about the PAs and firms you're pitching yourself for. It doesn't take long to reach the point of diminishing returns on bid list manipulation.

Not many people should assume that just showing up at OCI dressed nicely with a good attitude is enough. So what else are you doing?

[rinkrat19]

If there is one thing I could get all of you all to do, it would be less tinkering with your bid lists and more mass mailing, emailing alumni, scheduling meetings, and learning about the PAs and firms you're pitching yourself for. It doesn't take long to reach the point of diminishing returns on bid list manipulation.

Not many people should assume that just showing up at OCI dressed nicely with a good attitude is enough. So what else are you doing?

I'm mailing at night. I've definitely spent more time on cover letters than my bid list. Got one screener in Portland scheduled so far.

[IAFG]

If there is one thing I could get all of you all to do, it would be less tinkering with your bid lists and more mass mailing, emailing alumni, scheduling meetings, and learning about the PAs and firms you're pitching yourself for. It doesn't take long to reach the point of diminishing returns on bid list manipulation.

Not many people should assume that just showing up at OCI dressed nicely with a good attitude is enough. So what else are you doing?

I'm mailing at night. I've definitely spent more time on cover letters than my bid list. Got one screener in Portland scheduled so far.

Good girl. Now you follow up with everyone you've already mailed/plan to mail and tell them when you'll be in town and ask if they can make time for you.

[rinkrat19]

If there is one thing I could get all of you all to do, it would be less tinkering with your bid lists and more mass mailing, emailing alumni, scheduling meetings, and learning about the PAs and firms you're pitching yourself for. It doesn't take long to reach the point of diminishing returns on bid list manipulation.

Not many people should assume that just showing up at OCI dressed nicely with a good attitude is enough. So what else are you doing?

I'm mailing at night. I've definitely spent more time on cover letters than my bid list. Got one screener in Portland scheduled so far.

Good girl. Now you follow up with everyone you've already mailed/plan to mail and tell them when you'll be in town and ask if they can make time for you.

At this point I'm still in town. If I haven't heard from them as my departure gets closer (my cover letter mentions that date), I'll reconnect and let them know I'll be coming back for a "visit" (interview trip) in September. Hoping to get most screeners taken care of before I leave, though.

I haven't touched Denver yet. That's next. This weekend I'm gonna power through.

[Anonymous User]

OK, I'll give it a shot
3.5+, Secondary Journal, targeting Chicago
Additional Question - I'm also have a leadership position in one of the larger student orgs. Do these positions count for anything?

1. Sidley
2. Jenner
3. K&L Gates
4. Katten
5. Jones Day
6. Baker & McKenzie
7. Reed Smith
8. Drinker Biddle
9. Proskauer Rose
10. Schiff Hardin
11. DLA Piper
12. Paul Hastings
13. Foley & Laudner
14. SNR Denton
15. Dentons
16. Chapman & Cutler
17. Neal Gerber
18. Vedder Price
19. Pircher Nichols
20. McDonnell Boehnen

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

Good girl. Now you follow up with everyone you've already mailed/plan to mail and tell them when you'll be in town and ask if they can make time for you.

How should we approach this if we're not really around the city we're targeting via mass mail. I.e Im currently in secondary (tertiary, really) market. Im mailing round here, but can't get to my bigger markets before heading back for oci. Do I just try and set up screeners for after oci?

Sorry if this is as obvious as it seems. I would just like a job.

[rinkrat19]

Good girl. Now you follow up with everyone you've already mailed/plan to mail and tell them when you'll be in town and ask if they can make time for you.

How should we approach this if we're not really around the city we're targeting via mass mail. I.e Im currently in secondary (tertiary, really) market. Im mailing round here, but can't get to my bigger markets before heading back for oci. Do I just try and set up screeners for after oci?

Sorry if this is as obvious as it seems. I would just like a job.

Say you're going to be traveling there in September and would be happy to interview at their convenience.

[Anonymous User]

OK, I'll give it a shot
3.5+, Secondary Journal, targeting Chicago
Additional Question - I'm also have a leadership position in one of the larger student orgs. Do these positions count for anything?

1. Sidley
2. Jenner
3. K&L Gates
4. Katten
5. Jones Day
6. Baker & McKenzie
7. Reed Smith
8. Drinker Biddle
9. Proskauer Rose
10. Schiff Hardin
11. DLA Piper
12. Paul Hastings
13. Foley & Laudner
14. SNR Denton
15. Dentons
16. Chapman & Cutler
17. Neal Gerber
18. Vedder Price
19. Pircher Nichols
20. McDonnell Boehnen

don't think Neal Gerber's coming to OCI bro. I hear they have everyone they need already

[splitsplat]

OK, I'll give it a shot
3.5+, Secondary Journal, targeting Chicago
Additional Question - I'm also have a leadership position in one of the larger student orgs. Do these positions count for anything?

1. Sidley
2. Jenner
3. K&L Gates
4. Katten
5. Jones Day
6. Baker & McKenzie
7. Reed Smith
8. Drinker Biddle
9. Proskauer Rose
10. Schiff Hardin
11. DLA Piper
12. Paul Hastings
13. Foley & Laudner
14. SNR Denton
15. Dentons
16. Chapman & Cutler
17. Neal Gerber
18. Vedder Price
19. Pircher Nichols
20. McDonnell Boehnen

are you IP? I'm pretty sure MBHB doesn't take people without requisite degrees in ze sciences

[bk1]

Additional Question - I'm also have a leadership position in one of the larger student orgs. Do these positions count for anything?

Not really. They just give you something else to talk about and make you look more human/interesting.

[Flips88]

OK, I'll give it a shot
3.5+, Secondary Journal, targeting Chicago
Additional Question - I'm also have a leadership position in one of the larger student orgs. Do these positions count for anything?

1. Sidley
2. Jenner
3. K&L Gates
4. Katten
5. Jones Day
6. Baker & McKenzie
7. Reed Smith
8. Drinker Biddle
9. Proskauer Rose
10. Schiff Hardin
11. DLA Piper
12. Paul Hastings
13. Foley & Laudner
14. SNR Denton
15. Dentons
16. Chapman & Cutler
17. Neal Gerber
18. Vedder Price
19. Pircher Nichols
20. McDonnell Boehnen

Why Sidley and Jenner, but no Kirkland?

[Anonymous User]

Targeting LA and Chicago (significant ties to both)
Stats: 3.4x, secondary journal, significant work experience
Interests: transactional, real estate

I've tried to sort it by interview slots and then by callback median and I eliminated a couple of places with class sizes of 2-3.
Any thoughts on this as a bidlist?

1 KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP Chicago
2 LATHAM & WATKINS LLP LA
3 dykema gossett pllc Chicago
4 PIRCHER NICHOLS & MEEKS Chicago
5 goodwin procter llp LA
6 VEDDER PRICE KAUFMAN & KAMMHOLZ PC Chicago
7 QUARLES & BRADY LLP Chicago
8 DLA PIPER LLP Chicago
9 BAKER & MCKENZIE LLP Chicago
10 proskauer rose llp LA
11 O'MELVENY & MYERS LLP LA
12 JONES DAY LA
13 LOCKE LORD BISSELL & LIDDELL LLP Chicago
14 thompson coburn llp Chicago
15 HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP Chicago
16 HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP LA
17 SKADDEN ARPS SLATE MEAGHER & FLOM LLP LA
18 mcguirewoods LLP Chicago
19 JONES DAY Chicago
20 CLARK HILL Chicago
21 cooley llp Santa Monica
22 BRYAN CAVE LLP Santa Monica
23 BRYAN CAVE LLP Chicago
24 CHAPMAN & CUTLER LLP Chicago
25 DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP Chicago
26 FOLEY & LARDNER LLP LA
27 FAEGRE BAKER DANIELS Chicago
28 FRIED FRANK HARRIS SHRIVER & JACOBSON LLP NYC
29 FOLEY & LARDNER LLP Chicago
30 katten muchin rosenman llp Chicago
31 WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI LA
32 PAUL HASTINGS LA
33 goldberg kohn LTD Chicago
34 WINSTON & STRAWN LLP Chicago
35 JENNER & BLOCK LLP Chicago
36 SKADDEN ARPS SLATE MEAGHER & FLOM LLP Chicago
37 mayer brown llp Chicago
38 LATHAM & WATKINS LLP Chicago
39 schiff hardin llp Chicago
40 MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY LLP Chicago

[Samara]

Wasn't the Kirkland callback low 3.5 last year? Seems like a waste of a bid unless you have some sort of strong connection. Why is Mayer so low? They have an excellent Chicago RE practice and are willing to go down to median. I would also throw Dentons in there. And from what has been posted ITT, Katten will be long gone by 30.

Other than that, it looks good to me from a Chi RE perspective. Don't know enough about LA to comment.

[Bumi]

I've tried to sort it by interview slots and then by callback median and I eliminated a couple of places with class sizes of 2-3.
Any thoughts on this as a bidlist?

1 KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP Chicago
2 LATHAM & WATKINS LLP LA
3 DYKEMA GOSSETT PLLC Chicago
4 PIRCHER NICHOLS & MEEKS Chicago
5 GOODWIN PROCTER LLP LA
6 VEDDER PRICE KAUFMAN & KAMMHOLZ PC Chicago
7 QUARLES & BRADY LLP Chicago
8 DLA PIPER LLP Chicago
9 BAKER & MCKENZIE LLP Chicago
10 PROSKAUER ROSE LLP LA
11 O'MELVENY & MYERS LLP LA
12 JONES DAY LA
13 LOCKE LORD BISSELL & LIDDELL LLP Chicago
14 THOMPSON COBURN LLP Chicago
15 HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP Chicago
16 HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP LA
17 SKADDEN ARPS SLATE MEAGHER & FLOM LLP LA
18 MCGUIREWOODS LLP Chicago
19 JONES DAY Chicago
20 CLARK HILL Chicago
21 COOLEY LLP Santa Monica
22 BRYAN CAVE LLP Santa Monica
23 BRYAN CAVE LLP Chicago
24 CHAPMAN & CUTLER LLP Chicago
25 DRINKER BIDDLE & REATH LLP Chicago
26 FOLEY & LARDNER LLP LA
27 FAEGRE BAKER DANIELS Chicago
28 FRIED FRANK HARRIS SHRIVER & JACOBSON LLP NYC
29 FOLEY & LARDNER LLP Chicago
30 KATTEN MUCHIN ROSENMAN LLP Chicago
31 WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI LA
32 PAUL HASTINGS LA
33 GOLDBERG KOHN LTD Chicago
34 WINSTON & STRAWN LLP Chicago
35 JENNER & BLOCK LLP Chicago
36 SKADDEN ARPS SLATE MEAGHER & FLOM LLP Chicago
37 MAYER BROWN LLP Chicago
38 LATHAM & WATKINS LLP Chicago
39 SCHIFF HARDIN LLP Chicago
40 MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY LLP Chicago

Very few of those Chicago firms are going to be available at the number you're bidding them. Meanwhile, why bid Kirkland #1 when you can almost certainly get them lower?

[D-hops]

Wasn't the Kirkland callback low 3.5 last year? Seems like a waste of a bid unless you have some sort of strong connection. Why is Mayer so low? They have an excellent Chicago RE practice and are willing to go down to median. I would also throw Dentons in there. And from what has been posted ITT, Katten will be long gone by 30.

Other than that, it looks good to me from a Chi RE perspective. Don't know enough about LA to comment.

I'd bet Kirkland actually looks at lower GPAs this year compared to last. Not to mention Kirkland is seemingly always hiring in the Real Estate group. I don't think a 3.4x going into Real Estate would be wasting a bid at Kirkland at all.

[Anonymous User]

Alright, here's my first pass for a bidlist. 3.5x, LR, significant WE and ties to the bay area. My approach was to target the two bay area firms coming to OCI with large class sizes, then NYC firms with large class sizes, then all others with small class sizes.

One thing I'm wondering is whether or not I have a fighting chance at Sidley and if I could bid them lower and still get them? Also, I know I probably should bid Kirkland in there somewhere, but where's the lowest I can put them and still get a screener?

1 Sidley Austin Chicago
2 Fenwick & West Silicon Valley
3 Wilson Sonsini Silicon Valley
4 Allen & Overy New York
5 Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft New York
6 Paul Weiss New York
7 Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy New York
8 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett New York
9 Weil New York
10 Shearman & Sterling New York
11 Freshfields New York
12 Linklaters New York
13 Willkie Farr New York
14 White & Case New York
15 Cahill Gordon & Reindel New York
16 Dentons Chicago
17 Fried Frank New York
18 O'Melveny & Myers New York
19 Stroock Stroock & Lavan New York
20 Goodwin Procter Silicon Valley
21 Davis Polk New York
22 Gunderson Silicon Valley
23 Perkins Coie Silicon Valley
24 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman San Francisco
25 DLA Piper Silicon Valley
26 Chadbourne & Parke New York
27 Dechert New York
28 clifford chance New York
29 K&L Gates Chicago

[Flips88]

Doubt you'd get K&L at 29. I didn't hear of many people getting Chicago firms later than the 16-low 20s range

[Anonymous User]

Doubt you'd get K&L at 29. I didn't hear of many people getting Chicago firms later than the 16-low 20s range

are there any firms that one could potentially get screeners from despite bidding them very low?

[Icculus]

Doubt you'd get K&L at 29. I didn't hear of many people getting Chicago firms later than the 16-low 20s range

are there any firms that one could potentially get screeners from despite bidding them very low?

Depends. A few NYC firms may make it into the late 20s. Small markets last longer. People were getting Boston firms in the 30s. But this is a different class so YMMV. Basically oci is a big guessing game which is why tinkering with bid lists can have diminishing returns as IAFG said.