NEW final 2010 OCI results thread that are ACTUALLY FINAL Forum

[irie]

Some data for the silly primary versus secondary market discussion:

(Note the large dropoff after LA)

NLJ 250 2010 was released last week. Here are the largest 18 legal markets (for large firms) with number of NLJ 250 lawyers:

1) NYC - 21250

2) DC - 13004

3) Chicago - 7247

4) LA - 5462

5) SF - 3729

6) Boston - 3699

7) Philly - 2984

Atlanta - 2974

9) Dallas - 2790

10) Houston - 2732

11) Minneapolis - 1630

12) Miami - 1278

13) Denver - 1242

14) STL - 1227

15) Kansas City - 1194

16) Phoenix - 1084

17) Seattle - 1046

17) Nashville - 749

is SV lumped in there with SF?

[vamedic03]

Some data for the silly primary versus secondary market discussion:

(Note the large dropoff after LA)

NLJ 250 2010 was released last week. Here are the largest 18 legal markets (for large firms) with number of NLJ 250 lawyers:

1) NYC - 21250

2) DC - 13004

3) Chicago - 7247

4) LA - 5462

5) SF - 3729

6) Boston - 3699

7) Philly - 2984

Atlanta - 2974

9) Dallas - 2790

10) Houston - 2732

11) Minneapolis - 1630

12) Miami - 1278

13) Denver - 1242

14) STL - 1227

15) Kansas City - 1194

16) Phoenix - 1084

17) Seattle - 1046

17) Nashville - 749

is SV lumped in there with SF?

I would assume so, but those are the NLJ's #'s by the NLJ's definitions of the markets

[Veyron]

Also for CA, Boalt > all but HYS.

Probably not. I'd much rather be at CCN, and probably even V.

Oh, I'm not debating that lots of other schools like P, V, CCN are more comfortable for hiring in general but people in Calli - 'specially Norcal - think that Berk is the shit. CLS might give it a run for its money in CA but I'm doubtful that other schools you mentioned do. At Penn for instance you can (not will) get a non-IP BIGLAW job from top 60% or so but need about top 20% for CA - I've even heard law review. At B, top 1/3 has a solid shot (of course, if you're median at Boalt you're fucked). True, I don't know much about how Chi or NYU carries over to CA but I'd be shocked if they, expecially NYU got as much rep there as they do back east.

[RVP11]

Also for CA, Boalt > all but HYS.

Probably not. I'd much rather be at CCN, and probably even V.

Oh, I'm not debating that lots of other schools like P, V, CCN are more comfortable for hiring in general but people in Calli - 'specially Norcal - think that Berk is the shit. CLS might give it a run for its money in CA but I'm doubtful that other schools you mentioned do. At Penn for instance you can (not will) get a non-IP BIGLAW job from top 60% or so but need about top 20% for CA - I've even heard law review. At B, top 1/3 has a solid shot (of course, if you're median at Boalt you're fucked). True, I don't know much about how Chi or NYU carries over to CA but I'd be shocked if they, expecially NYU got as much rep there as they do back east.

A 1L says people in "Cali" think Berkeley is "the shit" = unconvincing. Street rep has NOTHING to do with big firm hiring. Anyone at any big firm in California knows about the quality of MVP, NYU, etc.

If what you said about Penn is at all true, then UVA owns Penn in California placement. I think you're talking out of your ass here, honestly.

[Aqualibrium]

You people and your rankings. In the end, if you can't hold a 20 minute conversation, you won't end up with a job anyway. Some of you should be afraid.

Cough cough, Kurama?

Please explain to me what this means...

[RVP11]

You people and your rankings. In the end, if you can't hold a 20 minute conversation, you won't end up with a job anyway. Some of you should be afraid.

Cough cough, Kurama?

Please explain to me what this means...

Kurama = BruceWayne = someone who'd fall into your "can't hold a 20 minute conversation" group. Just a hunch.

[Veyron]

Also for CA, Boalt > all but HYS.

Probably not. I'd much rather be at CCN, and probably even V.

Oh, I'm not debating that lots of other schools like P, V, CCN are more comfortable for hiring in general but people in Calli - 'specially Norcal - think that Berk is the shit. CLS might give it a run for its money in CA but I'm doubtful that other schools you mentioned do. At Penn for instance you can (not will) get a non-IP BIGLAW job from top 60% or so but need about top 20% for CA - I've even heard law review. At B, top 1/3 has a solid shot (of course, if you're median at Boalt you're fucked). True, I don't know much about how Chi or NYU carries over to CA but I'd be shocked if they, expecially NYU got as much rep there as they do back east.

A 1L says people in "Cali" think Berkeley is "the shit" = unconvincing. Street rep has NOTHING to do with big firm hiring. Anyone at any big firm in California knows about the quality of MVP, NYU, etc.

If what you said about Penn is at all true, then UVA owns Penn in California placement. I think you're talking out of your ass here, honestly.

Sure they know about the quality, but its about local preference. This isn't something just about hiring tables, B has a large and loyal alumni base in California which is important not just for your first job but for your career. Also, B's IP program pwns those at other MVP's which is important to NORCAL employers. Trust me, whenever I can troll for Penn, I do, but you've got to acknowlege that B is suprisingly well credited for California.


On a side note, how does V place in California? It wouldn't suprise me if your placement was better than ours considering our NYC uber focus.

[Aqualibrium]

You people and your rankings. In the end, if you can't hold a 20 minute conversation, you won't end up with a job anyway. Some of you should be afraid.

Cough cough, Kurama?

Please explain to me what this means...

Kurama = BruceWayne = someone who'd fall into your "can't hold a 20 minute conversation" group. Just a hunch.

lol still confused. Regardless, you'll be surprised at the people who just seem toxic at OCI despite their school and grades. You also might be surprised at some of the people who got offers over people at top schools with top grades. Your school generally gets you in the door, but interviewing well is the great equalizer.

[JazzOne]

You people and your rankings. In the end, if you can't hold a 20 minute conversation, you won't end up with a job anyway. Some of you should be afraid.

If I got a Biglaw offer, it can't be too fucking hard. I'm the most anti social chap on this board.

[RVP11]

local preference.

I'd wager a bet that there's very little "local preference," and any that exists is outweighed by the fact that it's just easier to get interviews and callbacks in California at a school that has very few students interested in going west. And any local preference that exists would be concentrated in NorCal.

B's IP program

BigLaw employers don't care.

On a side note, how does V place in California? It wouldn't suprise me if your placement was better than ours considering our NYC uber focus.

By number of people going to California? Not many. By how easy it is to get callbacks with California ties? Very easy.

As for getting offers, it's certainly easier than DC, but harder than NY. So it's like every other place in the country.

[RVP11]

You people and your rankings. In the end, if you can't hold a 20 minute conversation, you won't end up with a job anyway. Some of you should be afraid.

If I got a Biglaw offer, it can't be too fucking hard. I'm the most anti social chap on this board.

At least you recognize that you're not a Social Sally. That had to count for something. Most people aren't that self-aware.

[BruceWayne]

Kurama = BruceWayne = someone who'd fall into your "can't hold a 20 minute conversation" group. Just a hunch.

Dude you say some real stupid shit sometimes. I'm glad most people here (at UVA) aren't like you and don't permeate the school with TLS culture. It'd be funny to meet you. What the anonymous poster said has a lot of truth to it; the more people I actually meet who are involved in the legal world the more I realize that a lot of this TLS culture stuff about "top 6" and you can only get a job with x grades and only in x market is really straight bullshit. I went to a BLSA diversity firm event with people from Covington DC williams mullen and a few other firms and it was a great learning experience.

The more lawyers I meet the more I realize that there are a lot of different opportunities out there and you don't have to fall into this TLS style group think of "go to biggest NYC Vault firm, go to top 6 etc.". I think a lot of you guys on here are so used to a certain culture that you assume that the job world/real world works the same way as law school admissions--it doesn't. These people who are hiring us aren't 20-26 year olds with 3000+ posts on TLS. They think differently, ie they don't hire someone who went to Penn over someone who went to Duke because of what the latest issue of an annual magazine ranks them. They probably don't even know what the rankings are from year to year. Being personable and able to hold a conversation counts for more than the rankings difference between a couple US News spots.

[spondee]

Kurama, historically you've been one of the worst posters on TLS for arguing endlessly about the "right" ranking. You've gotta expect a little shit for that.

[RVP11]

Kurama = BruceWayne = someone who'd fall into your "can't hold a 20 minute conversation" group. Just a hunch.

Dude you say some real stupid shit sometimes. I'm glad most people here (at UVA) aren't like you and don't permeate the school with TLS culture. It'd be funny to meet you. What the anonymous poster said has a lot of truth to it; the more people I actually meet who are involved in the legal world the more I realize that a lot of this TLS culture stuff about "top 6" and you can only get a job with x grades and only in x market is really straight bullshit. I went to a BLSA diversity firm event with people from Covington DC Williams Mullen and a few other firms and it was a great learning experience.

The more lawyers I meet the more I realize that their are a lot of different opportunities out there and you don't have to fall into this TLS style group think of "go to biggest NYC Vault firm, go to top 6 etc.". I think a lot of you guys on here are so used to a certain culture that you assume that the job world/real world works the same way as law school admissions--it doesn't. These people who are hiring us aren't 20-26 year olds with 3000+ posts on TLS. They think differently, ie they don't hire someone who went to Penn over someone who went to Duke because of what the latest issue of an annual magazine ranks them. They probably don't even know what the rankings are from year to year. Being personable and able to hold a conversation counts for more than the rankings difference between a couple US News spots.

Is any of this supposed to be a response to me? Other than the first sentence, of course. The rest seems like a rant that's not directed at anyone in particular.

I'd be happy to meet you IRL. I think I'm a nice enough person.

Maybe I'm wrong about your ability to hold a conversation. Like I said - it was just a hunch based on your posting activity and how easily you become indignant on an internet message board.

[Aqualibrium]

Is any of this supposed to be a response to me? Other than the first sentence, of course. The rest seems like a rant that's not directed at anyone in particular.

I'd be happy to meet you IRL. I think I'm a nice enough person.

Maybe I'm wrong about your ability to hold a conversation. Like I said - it was just a hunch based on your posting activity and how easily you become indignant on an internet message board.

This made me laugh a lot. I think you have to admit it wasn't really cool to call this guy out though. I thought all you UVA guys were bro's?

[RVP11]

Is any of this supposed to be a response to me? Other than the first sentence, of course. The rest seems like a rant that's not directed at anyone in particular.

I'd be happy to meet you IRL. I think I'm a nice enough person.

Maybe I'm wrong about your ability to hold a conversation. Like I said - it was just a hunch based on your posting activity and how easily you become indignant on an internet message board.

This made me laugh a lot. I think you have to admit it wasn't really cool to call this guy out though. I thought all you UVA guys were bro's?

I would have been his bro, but he called me a racist in one of his rages (on TLS) back in the day. Since then I've been holding out for an apology involving Matt Lauer.

[vanwinkle]

WTF happened in this thread?

I'd better warm up the hammer...

[RVP11]

WTF happened in this thread?

"1L invasion" explains a lot.

They should be hitting the books like their futures depend on it.

[Veyron]

[/quote]

Dude you say some real stupid shit sometimes. I'm glad most people here (at UVA) aren't like you and don't permeate the school with TLS culture. It'd be funny to meet you. What the anonymous poster said has a lot of truth to it; the more people I actually meet who are involved in the legal world the more I realize that a lot of this TLS culture stuff about "top 6" and you can only get a job with x grades and only in x market is really straight bullshit. I went to a BLSA diversity firm event with people from Covington DC williams mullen and a few other firms and it was a great learning experience.

The more lawyers I meet the more I realize that there are a lot of different opportunities out there and you don't have to fall into this TLS style group think of "go to biggest NYC Vault firm, go to top 6 etc.". I think a lot of you guys on here are so used to a certain culture that you assume that the job world/real world works the same way as law school admissions--it doesn't. These people who are hiring us aren't 20-26 year olds with 3000+ posts on TLS. They think differently, ie they don't hire someone who went to Penn over someone who went to Duke because of what the latest issue of an annual magazine ranks them. They probably don't even know what the rankings are from year to year. Being personable and able to hold a conversation counts for more than the rankings difference between a couple US News spots.[/quote]

On behalf of douchebags everywhere, I must protest. Pistols at dawn?


"1L invasion" explains a lot.
They should be hitting the books like their futures depend on it.



Its saturday night brah, I'm entitled to a little bit of procrastonation in between the lines of my memo.

[JG Hall]

Its saturday night brah, I'm entitled to a little bit of procrastonation in between the lines of my memo.

last time I checked it was still friday night/saturday morning... although not sure which because I'm jetlagged as balls. fucking california.

[Anonymous User]

School range: CCN transfer
Market(s): NYC
Approx. class rank: top 10% at lower T2
Law review: no
Work experience: no
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: no
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 4
Screening Interviews: 27
Mass mails: 10
Callbacks received: 6
Callbacks accepted: 6
Offers w/vault ranges: 5 rejections, then 1 V100 offer last week

You are lucky to transfer in with top 10% and no WE.....

Maybe, i remember checking out the transfer board over the summer and seeing essentially no pattern as to who was getting into T14s (ie - top 5% T1 people getting rejected from GULC, top 10% T2 getting into Columbia). Columbia/NYU has a pretty big load of straight from undergrad transfer kids coming from local tier 3s who banked V100s from OCI. There were even a couple Touro transfers last year who hit V20s.

[Anonymous User]

Also for CA, Boalt > all but HYS.

Probably not. I'd much rather be at CCN, and probably even V.

Oh, I'm not debating that lots of other schools like P, V, CCN are more comfortable for hiring in general but people in Calli - 'specially Norcal - think that Berk is the shit. CLS might give it a run for its money in CA but I'm doubtful that other schools you mentioned do. At Penn for instance you can (not will) get a non-IP BIGLAW job from top 60% or so but need about top 20% for CA - I've even heard law review. At B, top 1/3 has a solid shot (of course, if you're median at Boalt you're fucked). True, I don't know much about how Chi or NYU carries over to CA but I'd be shocked if they, expecially NYU got as much rep there as they do back east.

I'm slightly above median at Michigan, and I landed SF biglaw. Going to agree with RVP on this one - there may be a significant advantage to being at a school where your classmates' target markets are diversified, especially if the school is one that regularly places into these markets and the firms there frequently take students from your school.

[irishman86]

Oh, I'm not debating that lots of other schools like P, V, CCN are more comfortable for hiring in general but people in Calli - 'specially Norcal - think that Berk is the shit. CLS might give it a run for its money in CA but I'm doubtful that other schools you mentioned do. At Penn for instance you can (not will) get a non-IP BIGLAW job from top 60% or so but need about top 20% for CA - I've even heard law review. At B, top 1/3 has a solid shot (of course, if you're median at Boalt you're fucked). True, I don't know much about how Chi or NYU carries over to CA but I'd be shocked if they, expecially NYU got as much rep there as they do back east.

A 1L says people in "Cali" think Berkeley is "the shit" = unconvincing. Street rep has NOTHING to do with big firm hiring. Anyone at any big firm in California knows about the quality of MVP, NYU, etc.

If what you said about Penn is at all true, then UVA owns Penn in California placement. I think you're talking out of your ass here, honestly.

WTF are 1Ls (who don't know jack about hiring) even posting in the legal employment forum?

And does Veyron troll for Penn in every thread he posts in? Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

[Veyron]

Oh, I'm not debating that lots of other schools like P, V, CCN are more comfortable for hiring in general but people in Calli - 'specially Norcal - think that Berk is the shit. CLS might give it a run for its money in CA but I'm doubtful that other schools you mentioned do. At Penn for instance you can (not will) get a non-IP BIGLAW job from top 60% or so but need about top 20% for CA - I've even heard law review. At B, top 1/3 has a solid shot (of course, if you're median at Boalt you're fucked). True, I don't know much about how Chi or NYU carries over to CA but I'd be shocked if they, expecially NYU got as much rep there as they do back east.

A 1L says people in "Cali" think Berkeley is "the shit" = unconvincing. Street rep has NOTHING to do with big firm hiring. Anyone at any big firm in California knows about the quality of MVP, NYU, etc.

If what you said about Penn is at all true, then UVA owns Penn in California placement. I think you're talking out of your ass here, honestly.

WTF are 1Ls (who don't know jack about hiring) even posting in the legal employment forum?

And does Veyron troll for Penn in every thread he posts in? Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Saying Berk and UVA are probably better than Penn for CA placement = trolling? Check u definitions.

[Anonymous User]

Saying Berk and UVA are probably better than Penn for CA placement = trolling? Check u definitions.

No. But randomly throwing shit in about how "60 percent" can get biglaw at Penn is trolling, considering that's about how much Columbia placed last year.

Whatever, 1L.