The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[BarbellDreams]

I never understand the ID firms that require 200 billables a month. At 50 billables per week I'd have to work a bare minimum of 70 hour weeks, on a good week. So you want me to pull 70-80 hour weeks biglaw style for a third of a biglaw salary?

yeah thats utter garbage. those kind of billables lead one of two things: cutting corners to bill or working yourself to death. if i was getting paid somewhat well, i could see there being a choice. at 50-60k, i'd rather not. especially when i already have a job that pays a better rate with lesser hours.

If I had choices, I would agree with you. However, I'd take that right now. I'm only picky now on 50k and below (i.e. I'll never be a public defender bc fuck that noise). I'd do anything for 60K+

I would do anything to be a public defender. Seriously.

[BarbellDreams]

How have things been going for 3Ls?

I am not getting interviews from my applications and I am pretty much applying for everything. Is it just me or has it been pretty quiet for everyone?

70 applications to posted entry-level jobs and tailored cover letters have given me 2 interviews, one of which was with a firm who contacted me to say that upon reevaluating their needs they do not think they have the budget to hire afterall but will get back to me after the new year and one with a quisi-legal pharma company who listed the position as an "attorney" but during the interview made it super clear that they really want a secretary with a law degree at a secretary salary. So yeah, slow is an understatements.

[FamilyLawEsq]

My spouse's firm just interviewed for an associate position (small law $72,000) last week. 2 of the 4 candidates showed up more than 15 minutes late..."they ran into traffic." For the love of God people, don't be late. It is better to be 2 hours early and find a coffee shop than to be 1 minute late. Those 2 were immediately eliminated. They are still looking for an associate for land use, zoning and real estate licensed in PA to start immediately. If you know of anyone, PM me, I will get your resume to the right person.

[Anonymous User]

How have things been going for 3Ls?

I am not getting interviews from my applications and I am pretty much applying for everything. Is it just me or has it been pretty quiet for everyone?

Nothing. Absolutely no luck.

[Anonymous User]

How have things been going for 3Ls?

I am not getting interviews from my applications and I am pretty much applying for everything. Is it just me or has it been pretty quiet for everyone?

DEAD. Symplicity has dried up and the BigLaw jobs are just yielding rejections, even with connections in the firms.

[BarbellDreams]

Its kinda strange how dead it is. I applied a mid-law firm's office where I had a very strong connection and personally knew one of the partners. I didn't even get an email acknowledging that I applied let alone an interview.

[Anonymous User]

As part of a job application, I've been asked to write a "standard law school" case study/case brief on a recent decision. Not sure how this is supposed to look, since I never had to do one in law school (besides briefing cases in my reading notes). Any guidance, fellow valers?

[Anonymous User]

How have things been going for 3Ls?

I am not getting interviews from my applications and I am pretty much applying for everything. Is it just me or has it been pretty quiet for everyone?

I've gotten one interview in the last month with approximately ten applications in the last month.

ETA: eight of those ten didn't even acknowledge that I applied.

[spleenworship]

I would do anything to be a public defender. Seriously.

Pretty much this for me too.

[Samuel Patane]

Symplicity seems to be completely dead as far as I can tell. The majority of posts are for 3+ years of experience. There was a post last week that made me laugh. It was for an attorney with 10-20 years of experience. I guess I am thinking that if you have 10+ years of experience you likely aren't using Symplicity for your job search anymore, though I could be wrong.

[Pretzel_Logic]

Its kinda strange how dead it is. I applied a mid-law firm's office where I had a very strong connection and personally knew one of the partners. I didn't even get an email acknowledging that I applied let alone an interview.

This is my experience right now too. A whole lot of silence where I've always gotten at least a "thanks but no thanks" in the past. And our symplicity is full of out of state positions, which is helpful since obviously we took ALL those bar exams and not KY. D'oh.

[M1_42]

My spouse's firm just interviewed for an associate position (small law $72,000) last week. 2 of the 4 candidates showed up more than 15 minutes late..."they ran into traffic." For the love of God people, don't be late. It is better to be 2 hours early and find a coffee shop than to be 1 minute late. Those 2 were immediately eliminated. They are still looking for an associate for land use, zoning and real estate licensed in PA to start immediately. If you know of anyone, PM me, I will get your resume to the right person.

Ugh that sounds awesome, if only I'd already taken the bar. Sure they don't want to wait until next fall?

[spleenworship]

Its kinda strange how dead it is. I applied a mid-law firm's office where I had a very strong connection and personally knew one of the partners. I didn't even get an email acknowledging that I applied let alone an interview.

This is my experience right now too. A whole lot of silence where I've always gotten at least a "thanks but no thanks" in the past. And our symplicity is full of out of state positions, which is helpful since obviously we took ALL those bar exams and not KY. D'oh.

My symplicity has like 15 volunteer and 1 contract positions asking for 3Ls and recent grads. Fucking vultures.

[02122015]

So I think I'll look for contract gigs for short-term money while I look for something more permanent (legal or otherwise). Is there a credited path to landing something like a doc review gig? It seems there are a variety of different temp firms out there with varying reputations. Are agencies the main way people do this? Or are temp agencies SPS? If temp agencies are how this usually happens, are some better than others? Any tips?

[BarbellDreams]

So I think I'll look for contract gigs for short-term money while I look for something more permanent (legal or otherwise). Is there a credited path to landing something like a doc review gig? It seems there are a variety of different temp firms out there with varying reputations. Are agencies the main way people do this? Or are temp agencies SPS? If temp agencies are how this usually happens, are some better than others? Any tips?

Between scouting craigslist and sending in your resume to the local agencies you should be able to land something fairly quickly assuming you're in a decent sized market. Just find out which agencies are in your area and submit your resume. Most large cities have at least 6-7 agencies servicing the area at a time. Sign up for Posse List as well, the will email you doc review gigs fairly regularly.

[Anonymous User]

Question fellow Valers. Just learned a classmate has accepted a clerkship. Does that mean his firm will be filling his slot or do they just keep it open for a year? Worth sending my stuff over? It's a firm I would be a good fit at. I hate being a vulture but I would also like to be employed.

[YankeesFan]

Simplicty seems to be pretty active, there have been like 20 associate positions that have gone up over the past couple days....all in Florida. This would be great if I didn't go to school and need a job in NC. I am mass mailing the hell out of small and mid size firms and getting absolutely no response.

[Pretzel_Logic]

So I think I'll look for contract gigs for short-term money while I look for something more permanent (legal or otherwise). Is there a credited path to landing something like a doc review gig? It seems there are a variety of different temp firms out there with varying reputations. Are agencies the main way people do this? Or are temp agencies SPS? If temp agencies are how this usually happens, are some better than others? Any tips?

Between scouting craigslist and sending in your resume to the local agencies you should be able to land something fairly quickly assuming you're in a decent sized market. Just find out which agencies are in your area and submit your resume. Most large cities have at least 6-7 agencies servicing the area at a time. Sign up for Posse List as well, the will email you doc review gigs fairly regularly.

I'm probably going to have to do this. My temp gig was pretty awesome but it was of course temp, so. Is there a general ball park for how long doc review gigs last? Or is it completely variant? I know virtually nothing about it other than it pays money and it's scutwork.

[BarbellDreams]

So I think I'll look for contract gigs for short-term money while I look for something more permanent (legal or otherwise). Is there a credited path to landing something like a doc review gig? It seems there are a variety of different temp firms out there with varying reputations. Are agencies the main way people do this? Or are temp agencies SPS? If temp agencies are how this usually happens, are some better than others? Any tips?

Between scouting craigslist and sending in your resume to the local agencies you should be able to land something fairly quickly assuming you're in a decent sized market. Just find out which agencies are in your area and submit your resume. Most large cities have at least 6-7 agencies servicing the area at a time. Sign up for Posse List as well, the will email you doc review gigs fairly regularly.

I'm probably going to have to do this. My temp gig was pretty awesome but it was of course temp, so. Is there a general ball park for how long doc review gigs last? Or is it completely variant? I know virtually nothing about it other than it pays money and it's scutwork.

All doc review gigs will give you an approx. duration time (Usually anywhere from 3 weeks to 9 months, though I would say the average gig is about 1-2 months). In the event you got a full time job and wanted to leave doc review early you can do so, but your name will in all likelyhood be blacklisted with the agency for future gigs (though you theoretically wouldn't care given your new fulltime employment). I did a day of doc review at a firm I worked for in LS once cause they needed an extra hand and it was painfully boring. Also, depending on the agency, working conditions are sometimes very difficult (no phone usage, no internet, sign out for bathroom breaks, etc.). With all that said, its a steady paycheck (around $27-32/hr. for big markets and lower depending on market. If you have a specific market in mind I can likely tell you what the rate will be within a $2-3 range/hr. For example, West Virginia doc review pays $17-20/hr while Philadelphia doc review pays $27-30 so market size greatly matters). Foreign language doc review sometimes pays as high as triple those rates per hour depending on which language you are fluent in. Top in demand languages are Japanese, Mandarin and Portugese. Those languages pay around $60/hr. with $90/hr. for overtime and usually have long (6+ months). If I knew any of hose language The other "benefit", if you wanna call it that, is that there is zero pressure. You literally cannot mess up anything.

[deadpanic]

Simplicty seems to be pretty active, there have been like 20 associate positions that have gone up over the past couple days....all in Florida. This would be great if I didn't go to school and need a job in NC. I am mass mailing the hell out of small and mid size firms and getting absolutely no response.

NC market sounds brutal right now. I know a few law grads with their NC license with solid credentials and they can't get any response as well.

[withoutapaddle]

NC also doesn't care about workers at all. Companies, especially the banks, use work at will like it's going out of style. Companies mass layoff in this state around August every year.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't seen anything on symplicity here in CA...there were a few associate positions requiring 2-4 years of experience, that's about it.

[chrisbru]

Twist: Northwestern has a one-year MBA program. If I qualify (I should, with my undergrad stuff), and can get in, I do it right?

How much will that extra year cost you? Zero income > more debt

In income? I dunno, not much.

No, in tuition. How much more debt will you take on for an MBA? My point is that it's better to have no job and no income and incur no debt than to have no job, no income, and incur a boatload more debt on top of your LS debt.

I don't have ridiculous law school debt, and the average scholarship is like $20k, so I'm looking at $50k max, but probably wouldn't go unless it is under $30k of extra debt. That $30k should be easily made up in the extra income from the MBA from Kellogg I assume.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/posti ... &p=7225948

I would do anything to be a public defender. Seriously.

Pretty much this for me too.

PD actually sounds like a really good gig.

[whatsyourdeal]

Haven't seen anything on symplicity here in CA...there were a few associate positions requiring 2-4 years of experience, that's about it.

what part of CA? Bay Area or SoCal?

[ilovesf]

Haven't seen anything on symplicity here in CA...there were a few associate positions requiring 2-4 years of experience, that's about it.

what part of CA? Bay Area or SoCal?

I've seen tons of these in the bay area