Pre-OCI 2021 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any more movement from DPW NY or STB than the original 1 or 2 offers each that were reported? Nearing two weeks on one and one week on the other since callbacks.

Still waiting from STB, over a week. Haven’t lost hope yet as it appears a lot of people are still waiting.

It me. I'm still waiting.

[Anonymous User]

Any offers at Debevoise? If yes, how long from CB —> offer?

[nbrs4mr1]

Has anyone gotten any hits with the top nyc shops? (CSM, S&C, Skadden, DPW, PW, Debevoise, Simpson, Weil, Cleary)

read the thread

[Anonymous User]

any more DC movement?

I am convinced that DC no longer exists and it is a dream we are all supposed to chase with no happy ending.

[Anonymous User]

Davis Polk NY straight-to-callback top 10% lower t14.

[Vexed]

That's duh and exactly what I'm doing. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize it's idiotic. Almost no one at the rising 2L level is going to be able to go into any real detail about actual differences between random V10 number 1 and random V10 number 2. What you're saying is exactly what I said is all we can do: review generic marketing material, look at overly simplified rankings/ratings, and talk to people who will basically tell us to be personable and that the firm prides itself on [thing I already found on their recruiting website].

I feel bad because I remember having this mindset going through the OCI process and now that I'm on the other side interviewing I can see how differentiated candidates can be on these kinds of things, and it's a huge difference. A significant amount of candidates have taken time off and have worked for law firms, banks, PE, regulators, etc., and will ask questions that clearly indicate that they understand how practices work and are seeking a better understanding of the specific type of work our firm does.

The rankings and accolades you're reviewing and referencing are about as useless to us as they are to you; we're more interested in identifying somebody who knows what kind of work they're getting into and will be interested in doing it, on top of being a pleasant person to work with. Two firms could have equally ranked practices in Chambers but handle completely different types of deal structures, specialize in different industries, primarily focus on corporates vs. financial institutions, etc. When asked "why this group at this firm", the candidate who responds "I want to do project finance and the firm's project finance group is highly rated" isn't giving an answer that necessarily hurts them, but when compared to another candidate who responds "I'd like to practice renewable project finance and I noticed that Bigname Partner has done X and Y deals for Z client, which is what I'm interested in", the first candidate is simply miles behind.

[Anonymous User]

That's duh and exactly what I'm doing. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize it's idiotic. Almost no one at the rising 2L level is going to be able to go into any real detail about actual differences between random V10 number 1 and random V10 number 2. What you're saying is exactly what I said is all we can do: review generic marketing material, look at overly simplified rankings/ratings, and talk to people who will basically tell us to be personable and that the firm prides itself on [thing I already found on their recruiting website].

I feel bad because I remember having this mindset going through the OCI process and now that I'm on the other side interviewing I can see how differentiated candidates can be on these kinds of things, and it's a huge difference. A significant amount of candidates have taken time off and have worked for law firms, banks, PE, regulators, etc., and will ask questions that clearly indicate that they understand how practices work and are seeking a better understanding of the specific type of work our firm does.

The rankings and accolades you're reviewing and referencing are about as useless to us as they are to you; we're more interested in identifying somebody who knows what kind of work they're getting into and will be interested in doing it, on top of being a pleasant person to work with. Two firms could have equally ranked practices in Chambers but handle completely different types of deal structures, specialize in different industries, primarily focus on corporates vs. financial institutions, etc. When asked "why this group at this firm", the candidate who responds "I want to do project finance and the firm's project finance group is highly rated" isn't giving an answer that necessarily hurts them, but when compared to another candidate who responds "I'd like to practice renewable project finance and I noticed that Bigname Partner has done X and Y deals for Z client, which is what I'm interested in", the first candidate is simply miles behind.

Ok but what if you truly have no idea? That’s most of us

[Anonymous User]

That's duh and exactly what I'm doing. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize it's idiotic. Almost no one at the rising 2L level is going to be able to go into any real detail about actual differences between random V10 number 1 and random V10 number 2. What you're saying is exactly what I said is all we can do: review generic marketing material, look at overly simplified rankings/ratings, and talk to people who will basically tell us to be personable and that the firm prides itself on [thing I already found on their recruiting website].

I feel bad because I remember having this mindset going through the OCI process and now that I'm on the other side interviewing I can see how differentiated candidates can be on these kinds of things, and it's a huge difference. A significant amount of candidates have taken time off and have worked for law firms, banks, PE, regulators, etc., and will ask questions that clearly indicate that they understand how practices work and are seeking a better understanding of the specific type of work our firm does.

The rankings and accolades you're reviewing and referencing are about as useless to us as they are to you; we're more interested in identifying somebody who knows what kind of work they're getting into and will be interested in doing it, on top of being a pleasant person to work with. Two firms could have equally ranked practices in Chambers but handle completely different types of deal structures, specialize in different industries, primarily focus on corporates vs. financial institutions, etc. When asked "why this group at this firm", the candidate who responds "I want to do project finance and the firm's project finance group is highly rated" isn't giving an answer that necessarily hurts them, but when compared to another candidate who responds "I'd like to practice renewable project finance and I noticed that Bigname Partner has done X and Y deals for Z client, which is what I'm interested in", the first candidate is simply miles behind.

As someone with a very non-traditional path, this is the least encouraging thing I think I've ever heard.

[LBJ's Hair]

I feel bad because I remember having this mindset going through the OCI process and now that I'm on the other side interviewing I can see how differentiated candidates can be on these kinds of things, and it's a huge difference. A significant amount of candidates have taken time off and have worked for law firms, banks, PE, regulators, etc., and will ask questions that clearly indicate that they understand how practices work and are seeking a better understanding of the specific type of work our firm does.

The rankings and accolades you're reviewing and referencing are about as useless to us as they are to you; we're more interested in identifying somebody who knows what kind of work they're getting into and will be interested in doing it, on top of being a pleasant person to work with. Two firms could have equally ranked practices in Chambers but handle completely different types of deal structures, specialize in different industries, primarily focus on corporates vs. financial institutions, etc. When asked "why this group at this firm", the candidate who responds "I want to do project finance and the firm's project finance group is highly rated" isn't giving an answer that necessarily hurts them, but when compared to another candidate who responds "I'd like to practice renewable project finance and I noticed that Bigname Partner has done X and Y deals for Z client, which is what I'm interested in", the first candidate is simply miles behind.

I feel like the only thing these sorts of questions tell you is if person spent a lot of time poking around on the website and really wants to work in your group.

but, "really wants to work in your group" =/= "will actually be a useful associate in your group"

there's probably some correlation, but in my experience it's pretty weak

[Anonymous User]

any more DC movement?

I am convinced that DC no longer exists and it is a dream we are all supposed to chase with no happy ending.

this made me feel better

[Vexed]

I feel like the only thing these sorts of questions tell you is if person spent a lot of time poking around on the website and really wants to work in your group.

but, "really wants to work in your group" =/= "will actually be a useful associate in your group"

there's probably some correlation, but in my experience it's pretty weak

tbh I think most of the OCI/CB process is pretty useless at giving me an indication as to whether the candidate is going to be a useful junior. my point is just that firms do ask the question and as an interviewer you can certainly see candidates who approach this question better than this OP.

[Anonymous User]

what does S&C timeline usually look like?

[Anonymous User]

Is there a protocol for if you're offered a CB with a different office of a firm where you already had a CB but haven't gotten accepted or rejected yet?

E.g. had a CB with Firm X in Office A last week. Haven't heard back. Just got offered a CB with Firm X in Office B. Do I say something about my original callback with the other office...?

[Anonymous User]

what does S&C timeline usually look like?

They stopped doing same-day offers, but if you don't get an offer within 3 days, you probably aren't getting one.

[Anonymous User]

Latham DC Screener Invite Today -- T2 School, Top 5%

[Anonymous User]

I'm on the hiring committee for the DC office of a V50 firm (we are not the home office). We've barely started looking at pre-OCI resumes, and we won't be doing any pre-OCI callbacks until mid-July. So no need to despair.

[Anonymous User]

I sent an email update to a firm I applied to and hadn't heard from, saying that I made law review and that I was attaching an updated resume. I sent the email before actually attaching the resume. Should I give up on ever practicing law?

[Anonymous User]

Any Latham NY movement? Haven’t heard anything since completing the assessment a few weeks ago

[Anonymous User]

Any Latham NY movement? Haven’t heard anything since completing the assessment a few weeks ago

Yes, I have a callback with them tonight. T2, top 5%.

[LBJ's Hair]

I feel like the only thing these sorts of questions tell you is if person spent a lot of time poking around on the website and really wants to work in your group.

but, "really wants to work in your group" =/= "will actually be a useful associate in your group"

there's probably some correlation, but in my experience it's pretty weak

tbh I think most of the OCI/CB process is pretty useless at giving me an indication as to whether the candidate is going to be a useful junior. my point is just that firms do ask the question and as an interviewer you can certainly see candidates who approach this question better than this OP.

totally fair

[Anonymous User]

I sent an email update to a firm I applied to and hadn't heard from, saying that I made law review and that I was attaching an updated resume. I sent the email before actually attaching the resume. Should I give up on ever practicing law?

transfer to cooley where you belong

[Anonymous User]

Know someone at my low T14 who got an STB callback in DC.

[Anonymous User]

Any Latham NY movement? Haven’t heard anything since completing the assessment a few weeks ago

Yes, I have a callback with them tonight. T2, top 5%.

Hmm okay. I have a theory that they are holding on a lot of people because they have the 2 day turn around for the offer/acceptance. Not sure if this has any credence but I like to believe the assessment isn’t tanking my chances

good luck with the cb!

[Hamilton51]

Have firms been giving you a list of your interviewers before the CB? Haven't gotten anything yet and I have a V10 CB tmrw

[Anonymous User]

Have firms been giving you a list of your interviewers before the CB? Haven't gotten anything yet and I have a V10 CB tmrw

All but DPW of Weil, DPW, STB, and Skadden did give a list of interviewers. Skadden did not send it until after midnight on the morning of the interview.