2021 Special Bonuses Forum

[Sackboy]

Can we please stop talking about Kirkland.

I'd honestly be interested in a break-down of which firms are requiring associates to be on pace to make a certain hour threshold. Is the consensus that most are not and it's just subject to "good standing"? Is it abotu 50/50?

Agreed on the first point.

The vibe I'm getting so far is 50/50 with the hour thresholds being pretty reasonable (e.g. 1850/1900/1950).

[Anonymous User]

how come every thread ends up being a discussion of Kirkland ... ugh it's a bit toxic tbh

[2013]

how come every thread ends up being a discussion of Kirkland ... ugh it's a bit toxic tbh

Kirkland has a billion associates, and some of them get really upset when you shit on their firm so they defend it every time someone criticizes it.

On the other hand, there are other associates (mostly butthurt v10 associates who) who question why anyone would want to work at the “Costco” of law firms. They attack the firm.

Kirkland has its issues, but it’s a top firm and most of the back and forth on here is bickering among junior level associates who feel a weird sense of loyalty to their firms.

[Anonymous User]

Also that among most of the largest firms, and all of the largest firms in a certain Vault range (minus Wachtell), Kirkland is the only one that varies comp by even a penny. The rest are dollar for dollar identical; it makes KE associates want to discuss more than, like Ropes or Weil associates who make exactly the same as each other, and always have, and make exactly the same as people at at least 20 other firms.

[Anonymous User]

Not to rub it in, but I’m still just speechless DLA: (1) matched; (2) matched quickly; and (3) matched with May/Sept., 50/50, and no hours requirement.

In my lit practice, we had zero defects I’m aware of after the special bonus fiasco - but my friends in corporate tell me their associate retention was hit pretty hard (where it matters: I.e, corporate).

Way to vote with your feet people!

[Anonymous User]

how come every thread ends up being a discussion of Kirkland ... ugh it's a bit toxic tbh

Kirkland has a billion associates, and some of them get really upset when you shit on their firm so they defend it every time someone criticizes it.

On the other hand, there are other associates (mostly butthurt v10 associates who) who question why anyone would want to work at the “Costco” of law firms. They attack the firm.

Kirkland has its issues, but it’s a top firm and most of the back and forth on here is bickering among junior level associates who feel a weird sense of loyalty to their firms.

This place is like 75% anon at this point but (a) comp at K&E is variable so people are interested in seeing how the market will be beaten and (b) you get a lot of randos claiming somehow that the firm is less prestigious than its chambers and vault rankings suggest, for reasons never really explained, but seems in part because it's willing to dig deeper into top 10% from T20s/T25s than dig down to median and bottom 1/3 at T6s like other V10s are prone to do. Often comes from the same people clinging to alleged "prestige" of certain other V20s which have fallen from the V10 and haven't been back in 5+ years.

Same discussions circled Skadden back in the early 2000s -- both Skadden and K&E came from non-WS backgrounds, embraced more upfront cultures with tougher personalities, weren't averse to strategic expansion and express a slight preference for hiring top students at a variety of schools (including the T6/10) rather than sticking rigidly to the comfort zone of the T6/10.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on how laterals going to firms giving out special bonuses will be treated for purposes of such bonuses? Especially interested in laterals starting at special bonus-paying firms post-special bonus announcement.

Anon for obvious reasons.

[Sackboy]

Any word on how laterals going to firms giving out special bonuses will be treated for purposes of such bonuses? Especially interested in laterals starting at special bonus-paying firms post-special bonus announcement.

Anon for obvious reasons.

I think it's probably too early to know.

[2013]

Any word on how laterals going to firms giving out special bonuses will be treated for purposes of such bonuses? Especially interested in laterals starting at special bonus-paying firms post-special bonus announcement.

Anon for obvious reasons.

I think it's probably too early to know.

I think someone posted Proskauer’s language. It prorates anyone who wasn’t there as of 1/1/2021, which is very crappy given that first years started after that date.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on how laterals going to firms giving out special bonuses will be treated for purposes of such bonuses? Especially interested in laterals starting at special bonus-paying firms post-special bonus announcement.

Anon for obvious reasons.

A few firms (e.g., Goodwin, Cooley) seem to make it clear that they won’t be pro-rated, but annual bonuses will be pro-rated according to firm policy. Non-prorated bonus seems to be pretty easy to negotiate in this lateral market (I’m in the process of lateraling to one of those firms, and a non pro-rated bonus is in my offer letter).

[Anonymous User]

Any word on how laterals going to firms giving out special bonuses will be treated for purposes of such bonuses? Especially interested in laterals starting at special bonus-paying firms post-special bonus announcement.

Anon for obvious reasons.

Firms aren't going to be totally uniform about this. There are general market rates for most laterals, but if it's unclear, ask for it and you might get it. I've lateraled twice and in my experience there isn't much wiggle room for salary, but you absolutely can negotiate your bonuses (whether it's a signing bonus, annual bonus, or these special bonuses) with some places.

[Anonymous User]

Also that among most of the largest firms, and all of the largest firms in a certain Vault range (minus Wachtell), Kirkland is the only one that varies comp by even a penny. The rest are dollar for dollar identical; it makes KE associates want to discuss more than, like Ropes or Weil associates who make exactly the same as each other, and always have, and make exactly the same as people at at least 20 other firms.

This isn’t even true. Latham also has variable and above market bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Also that among most of the largest firms, and all of the largest firms in a certain Vault range (minus Wachtell), Kirkland is the only one that varies comp by even a penny. The rest are dollar for dollar identical; it makes KE associates want to discuss more than, like Ropes or Weil associates who make exactly the same as each other, and always have, and make exactly the same as people at at least 20 other firms.

This isn’t even true. Latham also has variable and above market bonuses.

Does Latham have a practice in a field that KE isn’t currently dominating?

[Anonymous User]

Also that among most of the largest firms, and all of the largest firms in a certain Vault range (minus Wachtell), Kirkland is the only one that varies comp by even a penny. The rest are dollar for dollar identical; it makes KE associates want to discuss more than, like Ropes or Weil associates who make exactly the same as each other, and always have, and make exactly the same as people at at least 20 other firms.

This isn’t even true. Latham also has variable and above market bonuses.

Does Latham have a practice in a field that KE isn’t currently dominating?

huh? capital market for one; I also don't think KE has better banking practice; VC/EC practice KE is def not as good as LW. KE is hardly dominating in the entire corp world - PE and Rx, sure, idk about the rest practice areas

[Anonymous User]

Also that among most of the largest firms, and all of the largest firms in a certain Vault range (minus Wachtell), Kirkland is the only one that varies comp by even a penny. The rest are dollar for dollar identical; it makes KE associates want to discuss more than, like Ropes or Weil associates who make exactly the same as each other, and always have, and make exactly the same as people at at least 20 other firms.

This isn’t even true. Latham also has variable and above market bonuses.

Does Latham have a practice in a field that KE isn’t currently dominating?

How is this remotely relevant to whether Latham has variable and above market bonuses (which it does)?

[Anonymous User]

It’s relevant to the original question of “why does Kirkland get discussed so much in comp threads?” The other poster suggested that a Latham should be discussed at the same level as KE because it also has varied comp. I’m suggesting that there are many many other reasons why KE is discussed as much as it is. Sheer practice area / growth dominance. Not just varied comp.

[Anonymous User]

Ugh once again with the KE crap... and lol at people who have some personal loyalty/identity wrapped up in their firms to argue over stupid stuff like this

Back to bonuses, how are people in the V40-100 feeling? At one of them in Chi/TX/LA and no news yet

[Anonymous User]

Ugh once again with the KE crap... and lol at people who have some personal loyalty/identity wrapped up in their firms to argue over stupid stuff like this

Back to bonuses, how are people in the V40-100 feeling? At one of them in Chi/TX/LA and no news yet

I'm technically at a V40 - Hogan Lovells - but not feeling great because Hogan decided last year to abandon any pretense of being a top firm in favor of being cheap. And I'm assuming you're in Texas, because LA (and probably Chicago) is definitely gonna match Spring Bonuses.

Not so sure about DC though. I've spoken with people at Covington, and they think it's unlikely CB will hop on board with Spring Bonuses. And if Covington doesn't pay, zero chance Hogan does.

[2013]

Ugh once again with the KE crap... and lol at people who have some personal loyalty/identity wrapped up in their firms to argue over stupid stuff like this

Back to bonuses, how are people in the V40-100 feeling? At one of them in Chi/TX/LA and no news yet

I'm technically at a V40 - Hogan Lovells - but not feeling great because Hogan decided last year to abandon any pretense of being a top firm in favor of being cheap. And I'm assuming you're in Texas, because LA (and probably Chicago) is definitely gonna match Spring Bonuses.

Not so sure about DC though. I've spoken with people at Covington, and they think it's unlikely CB will hop on board with Spring Bonuses. And if Covington doesn't pay, zero chance Hogan does.

I’m not as pessimistic about it moving down the chain. I think Ropes will have to match Goodwin in Boston. That will force Wilmer to match in Boston (and probably DC too), which will then force other DC-centric firms to match (Covington, Hogan Lovells, etc.).

I think the tech firms all matching helps the bonus trickle down to other firms who see themselves as “peers” of Goodwin, Fenwick, Cooley, and other firms.

[Anonymous User]

Ugh once again with the KE crap... and lol at people who have some personal loyalty/identity wrapped up in their firms to argue over stupid stuff like this

Back to bonuses, how are people in the V40-100 feeling? At one of them in Chi/TX/LA and no news yet

At Foley in the Midwest and not expecting a match. They didn't do special bonuses last year, year end bonus was below expectations, and im likely to jump ship somewhere else this year - doubt it will be to another firm, but not really happy with how management has done this. Only thing we got during the pandemic was a "be grateful we didn't lay off people" and a coffee mug with jelly beans as a thank you for the hard work.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on how laterals going to firms giving out special bonuses will be treated for purposes of such bonuses? Especially interested in laterals starting at special bonus-paying firms post-special bonus announcement.

Anon for obvious reasons.

I think it's probably too early to know.

Depends on what package you negotiate. If a firm promised 100% year end bonus with no proration on top of a signing bonus most honor this as an advance of year end bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Ugh once again with the KE crap... and lol at people who have some personal loyalty/identity wrapped up in their firms to argue over stupid stuff like this

Back to bonuses, how are people in the V40-100 feeling? At one of them in Chi/TX/LA and no news yet

I'm at Winston (V40) in Chicago, and I'm mildly optimistic. Kirkland will eventually match (ducks), and then Sidley/Mayer will have to, and then we'll have to, I'd think.

[cheaptilts]

.

[Anonymous User]

Ugh once again with the KE crap... and lol at people who have some personal loyalty/identity wrapped up in their firms to argue over stupid stuff like this

Back to bonuses, how are people in the V40-100 feeling? At one of them in Chi/TX/LA and no news yet

I'm at Winston (V40) in Chicago, and I'm mildly optimistic. Kirkland will eventually match (ducks), and then Sidley/Mayer will have to, and then we'll have to, I'd think.

Sidley/Mayer - Curious how people feel about these actually. Thought about lateraling to either of these as they have a lot of openings and I want to move to Chicago. Them matching will play a big part.

[Anonymous User]

Im a corporate associate at a mid market amlaw 100 in the Rockies. Fourth year at $165k (after a $5k raise for 2021 salary) and got a $25k end of year bonus last year. No special bonuses ever as firm does not compete on cravath scale and is aggressively conservative in its secondary markets.

Thoughts on making the move? I don’t want to leave for just the money but seems like it’s a good time to do it and can command bigger signing bonus etc. and maybe get a bite of the covid cash rather than at the end of the year.