New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Posting anon because friends know my handle.

Entering my third year as an associate. Billable year begins/ends in January. Billed 2100 last year as a first year but I am at 1400 after October and not particularly busy. If I had to guess, I'm looking at about meeting my target for each of the next 2 months (170) putting me at around 1750. Minimum is 2000. Aside from missing a bonus, which sucks a lot but isn't the end of the world, am I right to not really care all that much?

Other details: I am M&A in a secondary market (not NYC, DC, LA) with a V20. Low hours are due to a very slow January - March. I was billing very little and others in our group were slow but billing slightly more, so I'm probably at the bottom of the stack in terms of hours. I'd like to ride out this year and possibly another one and then jet to an in-house job. I've seen our partner's lives. They suck and I don't want them. Would be much happier in a more stable job with lower pay.

[los blancos]

Posting anon because friends know my handle.

Entering my third year as an associate. Billable year begins/ends in January. Billed 2100 last year as a first year but I am at 1400 after October and not particularly busy. If I had to guess, I'm looking at about meeting my target for each of the next 2 months (170) putting me at around 1750. Minimum is 2000. Aside from missing a bonus, which sucks a lot but isn't the end of the world, am I right to not really care all that much?

Other details: I am M&A in a secondary market (not NYC, DC, LA) with a V20. Low hours are due to a very slow January - March. I was billing very little and others in our group were slow but billing slightly more, so I'm probably at the bottom of the stack in terms of hours. I'd like to ride out this year and possibly another one and then jet to an in-house job. I've seen our partner's lives. They suck and I don't want them. Would be much happier in a more stable job with lower pay.

Think the general wisdom around here on this is that you're probably fine for now unless the reason you were getting less work than others is that partners don't want to work with you for whatever reason. As long as you've been doing good work and doing whatever's been put on your desk (i.e., not turning down work), you'll probably be fine. Even at 1,750 I'd imagine your collections at a V20 have probably crushed your overhead+salary.

I'm a shitigator so someone else can speak better to M&A exit opps at this stage of your career.

[20160810]

stipulate that opposing counsel can go fuck himself

I have on doubt that he will move to strike the Motion anyway. Sigh.

Re-file in comic sans per local rule

[Anonymous User]

Slowly getting swamped anon from before: feeling betting about things/I think I have a handle on it. (Saying "no" is not really an option both as no means yes, and as I would like to have the ability to turn to people if I get slow in the future.)

Also got some negative feedback today. Woo.

[Anonymous User]

How long can you get away with checking out after a trial (i.e., billing 30ish hours a week on other random matters, being in the office around 50% of the time, etc.). I'm very safe on hours and I really needed to dial it back for my own sake, but I'm kind of worried this is going to cause some blowback down the line. Any advice?

[20160810]

I would be cautious about not being in the office at least 9-5 too often but if you're really safe on hours I see no harm in cruising at 30/week until something comes up. May as well use the excuse and just take a vacation tho.

[Anonymous User]

corporate, new associate, nyc biglaw.

1. Attached wrong attachment (one version behind the current version) of something that needed client's signature for large M&A deal. Sent to associate, who then sent to partner, who then sent attachment to client. Client signed the incorrect version. Senior associate finds out it was wrong attachment that client signed. He works with other lawyers in the deal so they can replace my f-up, so it all gets sorted out. He was not pleased.

2. I am assigned to fill out form X (over 50 pages) for another M&A deal. It's mostly formalities but still a very important form that is included in the final deal package. I double and triple check the form to make sure I got everything right. I did not get everything right. Form X goes to client, who signs it. M&A lawyers from the other side of the deal inform us that there is a blank in Form X and needs to be filled out. Oops.

[Danger Zone]

corporate, new associate, nyc biglaw.

1. Attached wrong attachment (one version behind the current version) of something that needed client's signature for large M&A deal. Sent to associate, who then sent to partner, who then sent attachment to client. Client signed the incorrect version. Senior associate finds out it was wrong attachment that client signed. He works with other lawyers in the deal so they can replace my f-up, so it all gets sorted out. He was not pleased.

2. I am assigned to fill out form X (over 50 pages) for another M&A deal. It's mostly formalities but still a very important form that is included in the final deal package. I double and triple check the form to make sure I got everything right. I did not get everything right. Form X goes to client, who signs it. M&A lawyers from the other side of the deal inform us that there is a blank in Form X and needs to be filled out. Oops.

Why aren't people checking your work? I've made these mistakes also but they've been caught before going out the door. First years are bound to mess this stuff up.

[5ky]

People should be checking your work for #2. Yeah it's dumb to make a mistake like that but not at all surprising. This is your fault but not really.

#1 is your fault. These things happen but people can get upset about it. You aren't going to get canned over it or anything, but try to be careful about this sort of thing. If you do it too often as you're getting started, you'll cement a reputation for carelessness that you don't want hanging over you. But no big deal as a one-off.

[20160810]

I have to imagine that every new transactional associate fucks up quite a bit. There are so many traps for the unwary in that stuff. That's what's nice about lit. As long as you don't blow a deadline, most things are fixable.

[fats provolone]

I have to imagine that every new transactional associate fucks up quite a bit. There are so many traps for the unwary in that stuff. That's what's nice about lit. As long as you don't blow a deadline, most things are fixable.

easier said than done tho

[El Pollito]

we're so busy that people stopped caring about deadlines which i guess is nice

[Anonymous User]

I legit have trouble focusing when there are no fire drills.

[Anonymous User]

People should be checking your work for #2. Yeah it's dumb to make a mistake like that but not at all surprising. This is your fault but not really.

#1 is your fault. These things happen but people can get upset about it. You aren't going to get canned over it or anything, but try to be careful about this sort of thing. If you do it too often as you're getting started, you'll cement a reputation for carelessness that you don't want hanging over you. But no big deal as a one-off.

corporate anon from above.

Yeah that's what bummed me out/pissed me off at myself. I see both mistakes as intertwined (both mistakes were made under the same senior associate) and I don't want to get a reputation for carelessness. Feeling shitty about my incompetence. Also feel like I'm in a tough spot because yes people should be checking my work but I own the work and it all ultimately comes down to me.

[Anonymous User]

People should be checking your work for #2. Yeah it's dumb to make a mistake like that but not at all surprising. This is your fault but not really.

#1 is your fault. These things happen but people can get upset about it. You aren't going to get canned over it or anything, but try to be careful about this sort of thing. If you do it too often as you're getting started, you'll cement a reputation for carelessness that you don't want hanging over you. But no big deal as a one-off.

corporate anon from above.

Yeah that's what bummed me out/pissed me off at myself. I see both mistakes as intertwined (both mistakes were made under the same senior associate) and I don't want to get a reputation for carelessness. Feeling shitty about my incompetence. Also feel like I'm in a tough spot because yes people should be checking my work but I own the work and it all ultimately comes down to me.

Anon,
2 tips: 1) always open your attachments to make sure they are right. It'll feel silly sometimes, but it's a good habit that'll occasionally save your ass. 2) if possible, find someone (secretary, fellow associate, etc.) to review your shit. If it's a fellow associate, offer to review their shit in return. While that may not work as well for your 50 page doc, having someone go through your shit for a couple of minutes to see if there are any glaring errors is never a bad idea.

[20160810]

People should be checking your work for #2. Yeah it's dumb to make a mistake like that but not at all surprising. This is your fault but not really.

#1 is your fault. These things happen but people can get upset about it. You aren't going to get canned over it or anything, but try to be careful about this sort of thing. If you do it too often as you're getting started, you'll cement a reputation for carelessness that you don't want hanging over you. But no big deal as a one-off.

corporate anon from above.

Yeah that's what bummed me out/pissed me off at myself. I see both mistakes as intertwined (both mistakes were made under the same senior associate) and I don't want to get a reputation for carelessness. Feeling shitty about my incompetence. Also feel like I'm in a tough spot because yes people should be checking my work but I own the work and it all ultimately comes down to me.

Anon,
2 tips: 1) always open your attachments to make sure they are right. It'll feel silly sometimes, but it's a good habit that'll occasionally save your ass. 2) if possible, find someone (secretary, fellow associate, etc.) to review your shit. If it's a fellow associate, offer to review their shit in return. While that may not work as well for your 50 page doc, having someone go through your shit for a couple of minutes to see if there are any glaring errors is never a bad idea.

Double checking attachments is a good idea always

[Johann]

ive made several fuckups throughout the year. 80% of the time i didnt care. the 20% of the time i did care i had to take a step back and realize what this is. you are a robot on an assembly line producing 100,000 products (pages in this case) a year. instead of taking mistakes to heart, you should just recognize that even robots mess up on the assembly line. after i cleared my head and realized the problem was not the mistake i made but caring about the mistake i made, things got a lot better.

instead of spending more time triple checking, spend less energy caring.

[Anonymous User]

its 2pm and i haven't billed an hour

[20160810]

ive made several fuckups throughout the year. 80% of the time i didnt care. the 20% of the time i did care i had to take a step back and realize what this is. you are a robot on an assembly line producing 100,000 products (pages in this case) a year. instead of taking mistakes to heart, you should just recognize that even robots mess up on the assembly line. after i cleared my head and realized the problem was not the mistake i made but caring about the mistake i made, things got a lot better.

instead of spending more time triple checking, spend less energy caring.

A lot of new associate fuckups aren't things that could ever impact a client (saving a pleading in the wrong folder, screwing up billing entries, etc.)

[Johann]

i know ... hence my point to care less.

[5ky]

ive made several fuckups throughout the year. 80% of the time i didnt care. the 20% of the time i did care i had to take a step back and realize what this is. you are a robot on an assembly line producing 100,000 products (pages in this case) a year. instead of taking mistakes to heart, you should just recognize that even robots mess up on the assembly line. after i cleared my head and realized the problem was not the mistake i made but caring about the mistake i made, things got a lot better.

instead of spending more time triple checking, spend less energy caring.

i generally agree with your sentiments re: biglaw, though i don't typically follow them myself, but i try to respect the other people on my deal team who care a LOT about it. it's their livelihood (keeping clients, getting new clients, making partner, etc.), and making them look bad in front of the client just because a junior person doesn't care isn't a good look imo.

for things that are outward facing and can be done well by always double checking an attachment or proofing emails carefully to a broad working group, i think a junior should always do those sorts of things even if they don't care and are going to dip in a year or two.

[Anonymous User]

So there are a lot of mid and senior level associates at my firm who run deals, work incredibly long hours (neighborhood of 80 hours a week), are excellent teachers and have their shit superglued together. Is it really true that like 85% of these people won't make partner? That seems tragically unfair.

[Johann]

So there are a lot of mid and senior level associates at my firm who run deals, work incredibly long hours (neighborhood of 80 hours a week), are excellent teachers and have their shit superglued together. Is it really true that like 85% of these people won't make partner? That seems tragically unfair.

absolutely

[OfThriceandTen]

So there are a lot of mid and senior level associates at my firm who run deals, work incredibly long hours (neighborhood of 80 hours a week), are excellent teachers and have their shit superglued together. Is it really true that like 85% of these people won't make partner? That seems tragically unfair.

absolutely

In fact, of the personality types of those who do make partner, "are excellent teachers and have their shit superglued together" is not highly represented IME.

[Anonymous User]

If you never do bad work, never screw over your team and keep a low profile but deck out at 6 whenever possible, is it possible you'll last as long as the truly talented people who give 100% just by being the "ah, yeah, eh, they're okay" associate and slipping through the cracks? People say the goal is to survive big law until you can't, but maybe the trick to not burning out and not getting fired is to always give 65%?