1L Summer Job Search C/O 2017 Forum

[PB&J.D.]

Tag.

Also, for what is the protocol for firms that say they're hiring 1Ls (NALP), but have nothing on their website?

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone just send in a resume and cover letter to the recruiting contact for Latham? Or did everyone who applied apply to the 1L fellowship program?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know which Hogan Lovells offices are accepting 1L resumes?

[Kratos]

Also, do you need a tie to contend for jobs in LA/SF/Chicago? It makes sense that firms in smaller markets like Minnesota, Tennessee etc want strong ties to ensure that you're not just spamming nationwide. How do you get a foot in the door of private sector 1L jobs in a city you've never been to before, if your law school isn't from there? My school's reach is "national" (one of Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or NYU, but not Stanford or Chicago), but I don't see what good that does me if LA/SF/Chicago or even Miami/Texas firms require preexisting ties.

Lastly, are one's chances of getting an in-house F500 job better than a 1L firm job? Do such jobs follow the same process/timeline (massmail, right about now/January), or is it better to set up "informational interviews" with alumni first?

Do you have a compelling reason for why you want one of those more insular markets? Like I know a buddy who has no ties to a city but his background screams one of the areas of law that city crushes, so he had success with firms by saying that he wanted that city for the specific area of law. You could always just lie and say you have a SO in whatever city. DC and NY are not ties sensitive and from the schools you mentioned you have a good opportunity to snag one of those. Id put a lot of attention into those. Have to know more about where you want to go and why to answer your question about those other cities fully though.

I dunno if in-house is better chances or not. But they definitely don't follow any standard procedure, ime at least, in hiring so it's probably harder to find openings than just mass mailing firms. It is almost always a good idea to set up informational interviews with alumni though.

Also, for what is the protocol for firms that say they're hiring 1Ls (NALP), but have nothing on their website?

NALP often has the contacts for the recruiting people at the different offices, just send your shit to them (cover letter, resume, if you have grades transcript). Always check to make sure the info is up to date on the firm website though. Also, NALP doesnt have all firms. I would check resumelaunchpad and martindale for a more comprehensive list of firms in a given area. Again though dont use those contacts without checking the firm website to make sure they are up to date.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone just send in a resume and cover letter to the recruiting contact for Latham? Or did everyone who applied apply to the 1L fellowship program?

they want written letters of recommendation...

[okaygo]

So, there's the whole "no one gets a 1L SA other than IP/URM/ties or ability to work/live in smaller markets"

For those that do not fit into those categories, where are we supposed to look for paid work? I can't afford to not have a paid position this summer...

[BigZuck]

So, there's the whole "no one gets a 1L SA other than IP/URM/ties or ability to work/live in smaller markets"

For those that do not fit into those categories, where are we supposed to look for paid work? I can't afford to not have a paid position this summer...

Do PI/gov and cop a school stipend

[A. Nony Mouse]

Also RA positions pay. Not much, but something. And/or if you take classes over the summer, you get the joy of taking out more loans.

[bananasplit19]

So, there's the whole "no one gets a 1L SA other than IP/URM/ties or ability to work/live in smaller markets"

For those that do not fit into those categories, where are we supposed to look for paid work? I can't afford to not have a paid position this summer...

Do PI/gov and cop a school stipend

A decent number of big companies have 1L internships for their in-house legal departments. Pays 1/3 or 1/2 of an SA salary, which is pretty darn good, plus you'll typically get a few nuggets to talk about during OCI.

Keep an eye out for them using your school's Symplicity or from http://lawstudentjobs.net/.

[BVest]

All of the above. Plus small/midsize firms will pay... it will be peanuts, but they'll pay.

[okaygo]

Thanks, all! Would these small/midsize firms be found on NALP?

[BVest]

Thanks, all! Would these small/midsize firms be found on NALP?

None of them will be found on NALP. It's Martindale time.

[Manteca]

What's TCR for mailing out apps to judges? Normal envelopes vs. manila envelopes? Printed labels vs. handwritten labels? Extensively edited writing samples?

[nothingtosee]

Anyone who's done a callback want to outline the interview?

[A. Nony Mouse]

What's TCR for mailing out apps to judges? Normal envelopes vs. manila envelopes? Printed labels vs. handwritten labels? Extensively edited writing samples?

Manila envelopes, I don't think the labels matter (usually an assistant will actually open the thing, so as long as it's tidy/legible you should be good, though admittedly most applications I saw used printed labels), and any writing sample you send should be impeccable.

[BigZuck]

Anyone who's done a callback want to outline the interview?

The legal employment subforum is great for stuff like this. The stickied posts are particularly good.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=161018

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who's done a callback want to outline the interview?

where @?

[cookiejar1]

Callbacks are like a series of screener interviews; depending on the firm you'll meet with a young associate (or two), maybe a midlevel, and one or two partners. Most firms will also treat you to lunch after a morning interview which is great - expect young associates who graduated from your school to be attending those (even they say they're not assessing you just be polite). Typically you meet the associates first but sometimes things get switched around. Your interviewers typically will walk you to your next interviewer so you can get a pretty good feel for what the office is like as you walk through the halls. If I recall correctly each interview was maybe 25-30 minutes long.

Questions are hard to predict as every firm and interviewer is different. You definitely will get some basic questions to start the interview though so have some prepared answers for:

- How is law school?
- Why this firm?
- Why "x" practice area? OR What kind of law do you want to practice?
- Why this city?

But after the generic questions and a couple of other questions about your resume many people will just stop 10 minutes in and ask, "So what questions do you have for me?" This is what makes a callback interview much more different than a screener. You have to have a ton of questions ready. Pro tip? Have questions that demonstrate your interest in the firm. If you know a firm is particularly strong in one practice area, ask questions about it. Also ask questions to make your interviewer feel comfortable. Everyone loves talking about themselves. Just have a ton of questions ready. Ask questions that demonstrate that you did your research. Also if the question isn't a stupid one but you already know the answer just ask it anyways if you're feeling an awkward silence coming up.

For associates, ask them about their work and experience as a young/midlevel associate. What it's like. When they give you answers explain how you're really excited to hear that because of x, y, and z. You're basically trying to give them reasons to think that you're going to be a good fit at their firm. So if a firm says they do a lot of wine and cheese nights (like, formally as a firm) . . . you're going to have to give off the impression that that's something that you're super into. Also remember not to come across as slimey and insincere (even though everyone is insincere throughout this whole process what a wonderful world we live in).

For partners, ask them about the firm generally. This is kind of tough to be honest. I usually study the partner's profile before my interview and prepare individualized questions there. If I'm meeting with a head of a department or someone on the executive committee I'll ask them vanilla questions about firm management and strategy (just don't get too oddly specific - remember: polite interview conversation). I do have a couple of canned questions when I get desperate and they usually all have to do with training and development. I try to organically guide this line of questioning into a question that more or less asks what a partner looks for in an ideal candidate. You can burn a good 15 minutes talking about what the firm does to help its associates develop as attorneys and what their partners thoughts are on that. If the partner practices in a field I'm interested in I generally will ask them about that. I also ask silly questions about staffing and etc (If I know the answer will be positive - i.e., I'll ask about staffing at a firm like Irell & Manella but I won't ask how many people Skadden staffs on its large litigation matters).

Anyways, I'm blabbering but I thought I'd share some of my thoughts. Of course this is all my opinion so exercise good judgment when taking advice from a stranger on the internet.

[Sheriff]

Callbacks are like a series of screener interviews; depending on the firm you'll meet with a young associate (or two), maybe a midlevel, and one or two partners. Most firms will also treat you to lunch after a morning interview which is great - expect young associates who graduated from your school to be attending those (even they say they're not assessing you just be polite). Typically you meet the associates first but sometimes things get switched around. Your interviewers typically will walk you to your next interviewer so you can get a pretty good feel for what the office is like as you walk through the halls. If I recall correctly each interview was maybe 25-30 minutes long.

Questions are hard to predict as every firm and interviewer is different. You definitely will get some basic questions to start the interview though so have some prepared answers for:

- How is law school?
- Why this firm?
- Why "x" practice area? OR What kind of law do you want to practice?
- Why this city?

But after the generic questions and a couple of other questions about your resume many people will just stop 10 minutes in and ask, "So what questions do you have for me?" This is what makes a callback interview much more different than a screener. You have to have a ton of questions ready. Pro tip? Have questions that demonstrate your interest in the firm. If you know a firm is particularly strong in one practice area, ask questions about it. Also ask questions to make your interviewer feel comfortable. Everyone loves talking about themselves. Just have a ton of questions ready. Ask questions that demonstrate that you did your research. Also if the question isn't a stupid one but you already know the answer just ask it anyways if you're feeling an awkward silence coming up.

For associates, ask them about their work and experience as a young/midlevel associate. What it's like. When they give you answers explain how you're really excited to hear that because of x, y, and z. You're basically trying to give them reasons to think that you're going to be a good fit at their firm. So if a firm says they do a lot of wine and cheese nights (like, formally as a firm) . . . you're going to have to give off the impression that that's something that you're super into. Also remember not to come across as slimey and insincere (even though everyone is insincere throughout this whole process what a wonderful world we live in).

For partners, ask them about the firm generally. This is kind of tough to be honest. I usually study the partner's profile before my interview and prepare individualized questions there. If I'm meeting with a head of a department or someone on the executive committee I'll ask them vanilla questions about firm management and strategy (just don't get too oddly specific - remember: polite interview conversation). I do have a couple of canned questions when I get desperate and they usually all have to do with training and development. I try to organically guide this line of questioning into a question that more or less asks what a partner looks for in an ideal candidate. You can burn a good 15 minutes talking about what the firm does to help its associates develop as attorneys and what their partners thoughts are on that. If the partner practices in a field I'm interested in I generally will ask them about that. I also ask silly questions about staffing and etc (If I know the answer will be positive - i.e., I'll ask about staffing at a firm like Irell & Manella but I won't ask how many people Skadden staffs on its large litigation matters).

Anyways, I'm blabbering but I thought I'd share some of my thoughts. Of course this is all my opinion so exercise good judgment when taking advice from a stranger on the internet.

+1. Good post. Gave me lots of ideas for my upcoming interview. Feel free to keep it coming TLS. Those of us going through the process for the first time appreciate it.

[Sheriff]

Interview request for SA at great firm across the country in my target market! Pretty pumped.

I'm sure it varies by firm, but does anyone have a rough idea of what the interview to offer ratio is? They know I am going to have to fly in. Would they ask me to do that if the job wasn't mine to lose?

Impossible to say without knowing the firm or your sitch

In general after going through the 1L and 2L job search I would say "Do your best" and "Don't get your hopes up too much"

Good luck man, crush it

Thanks for the response and well wishes, Zuck. Definitely going to do my best to crush it. I'm trying to keep things in perspective, and am not getting my hopes up too much. It's tough not to feel the pressure given how much rides on this though.

I would still appreciate a ballpark ratio of interviews to offers if anyone with experience can provide one. Even if anecdotal. Would help quell (or aggravate) the nerves.

[Anonymous User]

For those that used their fall memo as a writing sample for law firms, did you only include part of the analysis? Or did you also include the qp, brief answers, and conclusion?

[MT Cicero]

For those that used their fall memo as a writing sample for law firms, did you only include part of the analysis? Or did you also include the qp, brief answers, and conclusion?

I started at the discussion portion, omitting QP, BA, statute, and statement of facts. I had no separate conclusion. Mine was 14 pages with those and exactly 10 without. I replaced all of that with a brief paragraph summary preceding the memo.

Pretty paranoid with anon on an innocuous question, yeah?

[Anonymous User]

For those that used their fall memo as a writing sample for law firms, did you only include part of the analysis? Or did you also include the qp, brief answers, and conclusion?

I started at the discussion portion, omitting QP, BA, statute, and statement of facts. I had no separate conclusion. Mine was 14 pages with those and exactly 10 without. I replaced all of that with a brief paragraph summary preceding the memo.

Pretty paranoid with anon on an innocuous question, yeah?

Thanks

[nick417]

What's TCR for mailing out apps to judges? Normal envelopes vs. manila envelopes? Printed labels vs. handwritten labels? Extensively edited writing samples?

Manila envelopes, I don't think the labels matter (usually an assistant will actually open the thing, so as long as it's tidy/legible you should be good, though admittedly most applications I saw used printed labels), and any writing sample you send should be impeccable.

I obtained a Federal Clerkship and interviewed for numerous federal judges. Contrary to popular opinion, I used normal white envelopes, folded my resume/cover letter in them and hand wrote the front of the envelope.

It costs twice as much to use large envelopes and purchase labels. Honestly, it all comes down to two things: (1) GPA; and (2) work experience.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, the envelope isn't going to matter. It's just that all the applications I ever saw come into chambers/the court where I was clerking were in manila envelopes. Mostly because stuffing a 10-pp writing sample into an ordinary envelope, with resume and cover letter and transcript (which is what the judges in my area wanted from my school), got sort of ridiculous.