Summer Associates 2014: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences... Forum

[Yeshia90]

This thread took a legitimately entertaining turn the last 24 hours.

My BB hasn't gone off since Friday at 6 with some auto-generated message. Living the dream.

Yeah, my firm did a full week of orientation; I don't start my first rotation until Monday, and it was implied I might not even get an assignment for a couple days. I honestly didn't realize working weekends and late nights was so commonplace for SAs, especially this early in the summer--everyone I've talked to in my firm said they maybe had to come in once or twice over their entire summer, and my officemate said he never left after 9.

[Anonymous User]

This was my least favorite part of being a summer (maybe the only part I didn't like). They HAVE to tell you that you shouldn't work nights/weekends/come in early, because if word gets out that they ride their summers, they may not get a perfect score on those stupid AmLaw surveys or whatever it is that forces biglaw recruiting departments to adopt some kind of monolithic cultural hivemind.

This has definitely been the weirdest part of the summer so far for me (2 weeks in). Partner at the end of the hall makes a point to walk in to the SAs' offices around 6:00, tell a bad joke, and say "Hey why are you guys still here, stop working so hard, go to a bar or something." But everyone, summers, associates, and partners alike, understand that this is something which has to be said and not something that would be wise to act on.

[Pleasye]

I, for one, am shocked that BD is the resident SA striver.

[dixiecupdrinking]

This was my least favorite part of being a summer (maybe the only part I didn't like). They HAVE to tell you that you shouldn't work nights/weekends/come in early, because if word gets out that they ride their summers, they may not get a perfect score on those stupid AmLaw surveys or whatever it is that forces biglaw recruiting departments to adopt some kind of monolithic cultural hivemind.

This has definitely been the weirdest part of the summer so far for me (2 weeks in). Partner at the end of the hall makes a point to walk in to the SAs' offices around 6:00, tell a bad joke, and say "Hey why are you guys still here, stop working so hard, go to a bar or something." But everyone, summers, associates, and partners alike, understand that this is something which has to be said and not something that would be wise to act on.

I don't get why you think they don't mean it. I think they probably do. It's not universally true, but 99% of the time, whatever you're working on as a summer is non-essential. If you have a deadline that you have to meet, then meet it. But don't work longer than necessary to put in face time or something.

And don't lie about your hours as someone else suggested upthread.

Honestly the best thing you guys can do is stop thinking about being a summer as some series of games to play the right way or tests that you have to pass. It makes you act weird and paranoid and, honestly, people are not trying to trick you. Attorneys you work with should make their expectations clear; if they don't, then ask. If they're requiring you to work 50, 60, whatever hours, then record the time. Stop trying to read between the lines on every little thing; it's exhausting to you and it's hard to deal with someone who is all nervous and stressed out, constantly trying to figure out what it means that you told them X instead of Y.

[Old Gregg]

Honestly the best thing you guys can do is stop thinking about being a summer as some series of games to play the right way or tests that you have to pass. It makes you act weird and paranoid and, honestly, people are not trying to trick you. Attorneys you work with should make their expectations clear; if they don't, then ask. If they're requiring you to work 50, 60, whatever hours, then record the time. Stop trying to read between the lines on every little thing; it's exhausting to you and it's hard to deal with someone who is all nervous and stressed out, constantly trying to figure out what it means that you told them X instead of Y.

Yesssssss.

[bruinfan10]

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[dixiecupdrinking]

This was my least favorite part of being a summer (maybe the only part I didn't like). They HAVE to tell you that you shouldn't work nights/weekends/come in early, because if word gets out that they ride their summers, they may not get a perfect score on those stupid AmLaw surveys or whatever it is that forces biglaw recruiting departments to adopt some kind of monolithic cultural hivemind.

This has definitely been the weirdest part of the summer so far for me (2 weeks in). Partner at the end of the hall makes a point to walk in to the SAs' offices around 6:00, tell a bad joke, and say "Hey why are you guys still here, stop working so hard, go to a bar or something." But everyone, summers, associates, and partners alike, understand that this is something which has to be said and not something that would be wise to act on.

I don't get why you think they don't mean it. I think they probably do. It's not universally true, but 99% of the time, whatever you're working on as a summer is non-essential. If you have a deadline that you have to meet, then meet it. But don't work longer than necessary to put in face time or something.

And don't lie about your hours as someone else suggested upthread.

Honestly the best thing you guys can do is stop thinking about being a summer as some series of games to play the right way or tests that you have to pass. It makes you act weird and paranoid and, honestly, people are not trying to trick you. Attorneys you work with should make their expectations clear; if they don't, then ask. If they're requiring you to work 50, 60, whatever hours, then record the time. Stop trying to read between the lines on every little thing; it's exhausting to you and it's hard to deal with someone who is all nervous and stressed out, constantly trying to figure out what it means that you told them X instead of Y.

My full post got buried at the bottom of the last page. I think it addresses what you're trying to say:

This was my least favorite part of being a summer (maybe the only part I didn't like). They HAVE to tell you that you shouldn't work nights/weekends/come in early, because if word gets out that they ride their summers, they may not get a perfect score on those stupid AmLaw surveys or whatever it is that forces biglaw recruiting departments to adopt some kind of monolithic cultural hivemind.

But that doesn't mean that a tyrannical midlevel doesn't occasionally slip through the assignment screening process and make insane (by SA standards) demands of you requiring night/weekend work. At that point, I would recommend you hide that you're working "overtime" (obviously just according to the weird "summers should rarely be working beyond 9-6" fiction--your hours are still nothing compared to an actual associate's), and just pretend like you completed the batshit unreasonable assignment (again, by summer standards) within the expected SA hours. Otherwise the assumption could well be that you're too slow/incompetent to complete your makework summer BS assignments within the expected timeframe, and your firm might think that if you're working late on fluff assignments, you'll collapse immediately when assigned a real workload.

I think the process is also designed to make you think that if you're stressed and working hard, it's not because some shitty midlevel gave you a shit assignment or expected the impossible, it's because you're not good enough to complete summer work without putting in some night/weekend hours. Hopefully it'll give you some peace of mind to know that sometimes you just get screwed by an assigning attorney, and it's totally normal to have to work like crazy once in a while. That happened to me once or twice, and the thing that stressed me out about it wasn't that I had to log a couple 14 hours days, but the feeling that somehow I must be incompetent because summers aren't supposed to work this hard. It does happen, don't feel bad, just keep you mouth shut (unless you really are drowning/in danger of blowing a deadline--then talk to someone early and often), complete the work, and cop that insane paycheck.

Yeah I mean, I agree with your post but I would take it further and say that, basically, just do what you're told to do, do it well, and otherwise chill out and try not to worry about the significance of every little thing.

Nobody thinks about summers' performance a tenth as much as summers worry about it.

[deebanger]

That's pretty fucking weird IMO unless you're pregnant or something

a lot of people dont, for numerous reasons, and health is often a big part of it.

I don't drink, but during work before law school I'd still go to bars with coworkers after work and hang out. Just because you don't drink doesn't mean that you can't attend events which are centered around alcohol.

when u go to the bars, what do u drink then? like soda or something like that?

[bruinfan10]

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[smaug_]

The summer has been a lot of fun so far. I get that it's supposed to be a lot of fun, but I wasn't exactly sure what to expect.

[Yeshia90]

That's pretty fucking weird IMO unless you're pregnant or something

a lot of people dont, for numerous reasons, and health is often a big part of it.

I don't drink, but during work before law school I'd still go to bars with coworkers after work and hang out. Just because you don't drink doesn't mean that you can't attend events which are centered around alcohol.

when u go to the bars, what do u drink then? like soda or something like that?

When I need to pace myself, I'll get a diet coke or a seltzer and, if asked, say it's rum and coke or a G&T. No harm in doing that.

[jbagelboy]

if you are advanced enough in years to be a summer associate at a law firm and you still don't know how to conduct yourself normally at a bar or happy hour without being awkward or weird about it, you shouldn't be hirable. I actually mean this. I never understand these kinds of people - what were they doing in college and after to distract from developing the most basic social graces?

It's a service profession. The people who are happiest and go farthest know how to act real and actually get to know and serve a client. why are people concerned about drinking, it's like the one thing at this point in our lives we should be most comfortable with.

[jbagelboy]

when u go to the bars, what do u drink then? like soda or something like that?

When I need to pace myself, I'll get a diet coke or a seltzer and, if asked, say it's rum and coke or a G&T. No harm in doing that.

I mean, no harm except it's totally unnecessary. why would you lie for no reason?

[09042014]

when u go to the bars, what do u drink then? like soda or something like that?

When I need to pace myself, I'll get a diet coke or a seltzer and, if asked, say it's rum and coke or a G&T. No harm in doing that.

I mean, no harm except it's totally unnecessary. why would you lie for no reason?

People think it's weird. I'm not of that opinion, but some do. Also people will ask questions and often the answer isn't that great. Do you wanna tell the old racist partner you are muslim? Do you wanna tell teh functioning alcholic senior associate, that you are in AA.

You don't have to hide it, but I can see why some do.

[jbagelboy]

when u go to the bars, what do u drink then? like soda or something like that?

When I need to pace myself, I'll get a diet coke or a seltzer and, if asked, say it's rum and coke or a G&T. No harm in doing that.

I mean, no harm except it's totally unnecessary. why would you lie for no reason?

People think it's weird. I'm not of that opinion, but some do. Also people will ask questions and often the answer isn't that great. Do you wanna tell the old racist partner you are muslim? Do you wanna tell teh functioning alcholic senior associate, that you are in AA.

You don't have to hide it, but I can see why some do.

not drinking at all for no actual medical reason is definitely bizarre (although I'd never openly judge someone for it, it's still weird), but 'pacing yourself' isn't - that's what I was referring to - for example if you've already had a few drinks and you need to drive to dinner. I'll usually order a diet coke after a few drinks before I get back to work/on the road/ect.

[Old Gregg]

for example if you've already had a few drinks and you need to drive to dinner. I'll usually order a diet coke after a few drinks before I get back to work/on the road/ect.

You are as retarded as brother darkness is insufferable.

[A. Nony Mouse]

There are reasonable non-weird non-medical reasons for not drinking (unless you consider being an alcoholic or having alcoholics in the family and therefore not wanting to drink "medical" reasons, which I don't think most people do).

[jbagelboy]

for example if you've already had a few drinks and you need to drive to dinner. I'll usually order a diet coke after a few drinks before I get back to work/on the road/ect.

You are as retarded as brother darkness is insufferable.

k

you know it's perfectly legal and normal (in my home state) to have 1-2 drinks and drive right? since when was this controversial? I'm not talking about getting plastered on the road. In fact, the whole point of my post is that it's perfectly reasonable to stop drinking if you need to drive after.

[bruinfan10]

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[Old Gregg]

I made the reasonable assumption you were using a few to signify "two," but a lot of people associate "a few" to mean 3+, since otherwise you'd use the term "a couple." Slammin' three drinks and then driving to dinner is a questionable life choice, but if you live in a lush-permissive state/are male/space them out, I'm sure two is okay.

IMO anything more than 0 unless you've had more than adequate time to metabolize the drink and be sober is too much.

[bruinfan10]

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[Danger Zone]

I made the reasonable assumption you were using a few to signify "two," but a lot of people associate "a few" to mean 3+, since otherwise you'd use the term "a couple." Slammin' three drinks and then driving to dinner is a questionable life choice, but if you live in a lush-permissive state/are male/space them out, I'm sure two is okay.

IMO anything more than 0 unless you've had more than adequate time to metabolize the drink and be sober is too much.

Who called the fucking boy scouts

[09042014]

Buzzed driving is drunk driving, but 0 drinks is extreme.

[Old Gregg]

I made the reasonable assumption you were using a few to signify "two," but a lot of people associate "a few" to mean 3+, since otherwise you'd use the term "a couple." Slammin' three drinks and then driving to dinner is a questionable life choice, but if you live in a lush-permissive state/are male/space them out, I'm sure two is okay.

IMO anything more than 0 unless you've had more than adequate time to metabolize the drink and be sober is too much.

Who called the fucking boy scouts

See bruin's post above.

[jbagelboy]

I made the reasonable assumption you were using a few to signify "two," but a lot of people associate "a few" to mean 3+, since otherwise you'd use the term "a couple." Slammin' three drinks and then driving to dinner is a questionable life choice, but if you live in a lush-permissive state/are male/space them out, I'm sure two is okay.

IMO anything more than 0 unless you've had more than adequate time to metabolize the drink and be sober is too much.

Who called the fucking boy scouts

Yea. zweit, just fyi, your view is not commonly shared where I'm from (car heavy area). Legal sobriety is anything <0.08, which is 3 drinks over 1+ hrs for a 6'2" 185-190lbs person. I respect your overly cautious view, but throwing out "retarded" for very standard practice is totally unnecessary. Insisting on 0.0 for all drivers is only tenable where there's excellent public transport, i.e., new york city.

as someone who has more than one friend with a DUI (expunged), I know the risks of pounding a bottle of don julio and racing down pch. Far cry from a couple beers after work before driving home.