NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Redamon1]

Do you think there's a chance that any of these firms in the poll won't even bump their New York offices? (Waiting sucks)

Yes.

Most definitely.

[Anonymous User]

As an addition to the above and earlier comments about a national market for salaries, I would note that London offices of major firms (e.g., Weil, Milbank, Latham, presumably STB and S&C) are raising salaries for newly qualified English-trained solicitors to £124,000.

Does anyone realize how much money that is, especially given that law doesn't require postgraduate education in the UK, and the course that is required to practice law (the "LPC") is paid for by firms? I believe they also pay a stipend during the LPC. You're paid during your training contract (approx £50,000) for two years and end up with the same salary as we do, six years out of high school.

I really think going the UK route is the credited decision if one wants to become a lawyer. I have no idea how the Magic Circle will respond to this latest ramp up in salaries from the American firms in London, but there is a salary war going on there. And there is an international market for legal salaries now.

[Redamon1]

As an addition to the above and earlier comments about a national market for salaries, I would note that London offices of major firms (e.g., Weil, Milbank, Latham, presumably STB and S&C) are raising salaries for English-trained solicitors to £124,000.

Does anyone realize how much money that is, especially given that law doesn't require postgraduate education in the UK, and the course that is required to practice law (the "LPC") is paid for by firms? I believe they also pay a stipend during the LPC. You're paid during your training contract (approx £50,000) for two years and end up with the same salary as we do, six years out of high school.

I really think going the UK route is the credited decision if one wants to become a lawyer. I have no idea how the Magic Circle will respond to this latest ramp up in salaries from the American firms in London, but there is a salary war going on there. And there is an international market for legal salaries now.

This assumes you get hired by an American law firm's European branch after having studied law only in Europe as an undergraduate. From my understanding, that's easier said than done.

[jbagelboy]

Also, non-troll post. It makes no sense that non-NY (minus maybe SF) firms pay NY salaries. No other industry does this. It happened in law because Skadden thought that they shouldn't pay their associates less at their regional offices. Its interesting it was Skadden that caused this because Skadden is the least likely to make a non-NY person partner, but thats how history played out. Other non-Skadden markets have followed at this point, but its usually a firm that had an office in a Skadden non-Ny market that followed their 1 firm policy. Atlanta is a bigger market than a lot of these ttts that followed "market" but Atlanta hasn't faced this pressure. If you want Ny salaries in Atlanta, try to convince Skadden to open an office there.

DC, LA, SF should all make NY market from a formalist talent competition and cost of living standpoint. More to the point, law school debt is the biggest cost factor for a young associate, and that's neutral across markets. I could not service my debt on an e.g. Minneapolis market salary nearly as quickly as in a major market, even considering how much cheaper an apartment would be there.

[imalreadyamember?]

why do you think atl associates should be paid 180k lol. do you think the atl offices bring in NYC dough? I don't understand

I never said that they should be paid 180k (Indeed i said i understand why the partners dont because they dont have to), I'm just saying that the associates probably would if a V20 NY firm had a major office there and paid 180k b/c the home based offices would have to match, unless they were a TTT crap show like ConvingTTTon. Is it a crime for wanting my fellow associates to get those Tubmans?

Laughed my ass off at this. Cov will probably bump to 180 around the time they switch out to Tubmans.

[El Pollito]

lol at "maybe" SF

[jbagelboy]

Guys remember when covingTTTTTTTTon wouldn't match the new market because ?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe SF is ridiculous. I am pretty sure COL is now higher there than it is in NY. And LA is ridiculous, too. All I know is that if my west coast based firm doesn't match and leaves me as a third year making only 5K more a year than a freaking summer on the next block, I am not going to be happy.

[Anonymous User]

Milbank associates laughing all the way back to SICK Georgetown 2BR while CovingTTTon first-years get stuck single-tracking all the way to their Crystal City apartment above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley.

Died at the last five words

(simpsons did it)
[youtube]axHoy0hnQy8[/youtube]

Cooley bros UBER Xing (non-pool) to their COURTHOUSE midrise apartment with ROOFTO POOLE

[Anonymous User]

Paul Hastings pays ATL associates 160.

Scuttlebutt says that the ATL office won't get the raise to 180k when it happens (which will probably happen 2 months late like our bonuses).

[Anonymous User]

Maybe SF is ridiculous. I am pretty sure COL is now higher there than it is in NY. And LA is ridiculous, too. All I know is that if my west coast based firm doesn't match and leaves me as a third year making only 5K more a year than a freaking summer on the next block, I am not going to be happy.

It's precisely this attitude — which I understand and empathize with — that makes me contest the notion that the Covington letter is no big deal. Covington's culture of gentility is being deeply damaged by the partnership going out of its way to stonewall any pay increase ex-NY, even when there was ample evidence that the salary increase was going national. It is deeply offensive to the current associates — all of whom had other options — and it won't soon be forgotten.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW there's a difference between [ PH (2.5 PPP), Akin (1.9), Wilmer (1.8 M), Jenner (1.7), ] and [ A&P (1.2), Hogan (1.2), JD (1.0).] Though all have reputations (deserved or not) for being candidates to try and not raise, the second group has a lot more to lose than the first. Not to mention people below the first group but above the second group have already raised, e.g. Fenwick.

[Anonymous User]

Why do these firms have reputations for not raising? Didn't most of them fall in line with 160k pretty rapidly?

[soj]

.

[Anonymous User]

Ugh, screw you, CovingTTTon.

[TLSModBot]

I don't know what has been said in this thread, but I know if my child goes to Covington, I hope to god that he/she went to Georgetown.

I wouldn't wish for either but then again I actually love my children

[homestyle28]

FWIW there's a difference between [ PH (2.5 PPP), Akin (1.9), Wilmer (1.8 M), Jenner (1.7), ] and [ A&P (1.2), Hogan (1.2), JD (1.0).] Though all have reputations (deserved or not) for being candidates to try and not raise, the second group has a lot more to lose than the first. Not to mention people below the first group but above the second group have already raised, e.g. Fenwick.

You have to at least consider the parter:assoc ratio. At places like Jenner where the ratio is along the order of 1:3 the patherns have to take a bigger haircut than places like JD that have roughly a 1:1 ratio....seems reasonable to think that the partners will look at this in terms of how much they're losing not how much they still make.

[Anonymous User]

Why do these firms have reputations for not raising? Didn't most of them fall in line with 160k pretty rapidly?

Most of them are Covington's peers in DC, which makes them more likely to ride Cov's coattails.

Not including WLRK, the firms on the poll are as follows for RPL, PPP, and Leverage.

WilmerHale
RPL $1.25m
PPP $1.81m
Lev 2.24

Arnold & Porter
RPL $975K
PPP $1.21m
Lev 1.85

hogan lovells
RPL $725K
PPP $1.25m
Lev 3.72

Akin Gump
RPL $1.09m
PPP $1.91m
Lev 3.06

Jones Day
RPL $755K
PPP $1.01m
Lev 1.76

Jenner & Block
RPL $1.06m
PPP $1.72m
Lev 2.84

Paul Hastings
RPL $1.16m
PPP $2.50m
Lev 3.68

Paul Hastings, WH, and Jenner should not have much problem matching. It's a closer call for Akin Gump, A&P and JD, and it seems very difficult for Hogan.

It's not all about the numbers though. DC firms are less profitable and would likely ride Cov's coattails if the match hadn't spread to Chi/CA/TX already. WH isn't really a DC firm, as it enjoys the higher profitability of Boston (DC is prestigious, but Boston brings in the real money), and has to compete with Ropes. Ropes will match firmwide (they have to, given NY/Chi/CA), which will force WH to match, which will force Cov (and maybe A&P) to match. Otherwise, the DC firms would get killed in their own market by non-DC firms with big DC offices and lose people who were on the fence between DC/NY. Oddly enough, the key to the DC market is Ropes. Once Ropes matches, WH matches, and then the rest of DC falls in line.

[Anonymous User]

Either Ropes or GDC could push DC (Cov, WH, A&P) to 180. GDC directly and Ropes via WH as you mentioned.

[Anonymous User]

CovingTTTon dweebs CRY into their SKIRT STEAK and mushroom sauce at Medium Rare and go home to their 5 person Hill TOWNhouse while Skadden bros pound KOBE BEEF at BLT Steak and go home to their Foggy Bottom PENThouse

Sorry this is too fun

[Big Shrimpin]

CovingTTTon dweebs CRY into their SKIRT STEAK and mushroom sauce at Medium Rare and go home to their 5 person Hill TOWNhouse while Skadden bros pound KOBE BEEF at BLT Steak and go home to their Foggy Bottom PENThouse

Sorry this is too fun

CovingTTTon associates spend weekends dodging building shadows in LAWN CHAIRS on SIDEWALK out front of apartment while SKADDEN bros bask in the sun at ROOFTOP POOLS around DUPONT CIRCLE

[Anonymous User]

I cannot imagine that Baker Botts will not match Vinson Elkins. My impression of that firm is that they are, or consider themselves to be neck to neck with V&E and direct peers in every way. Even discounting losing out on recruitment, I don't see why all of their associates would put in for a lateral transfer to V&E or other market-paying firms, unless they give some black box bonuses to retain midlevels.

Are we assuming CovingTTTon means a NYC raise? Asking for a friend...

Baker Botts associate here. Chatter is that they will match, but no word from management yet. We will always follow V&E, but we're slow to do it. Associates are hoping it will be before recruiting season, but it might be several months after.

Also, because we're on a levels system (160, 180, 230, etc.), we will probably just add 20-30k to each level. For example, a 4th year who is Level 3 (this is standard) currently gets $230k. They would be bumped to $250-60k. That would be a windfall for that 4th year.

There's no way BB can wait that long. In Dallas GDC and Sidley will have raised. In Houston Kirkland has raised. They have until next friday MAX until people are jumping ship. This isn't like the timing of the bonuses or previous raises. Someone can leave for K&E now and get a massive raise plus probably $20-30k cash.

[Anonymous User]

What's the after tax difference post raise? About $12k annually?

[sublime]

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[soj]

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