The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[cinephile]

I applied to IBR last year and it was approved pretty quickly. It depends on your servicer but Sallie Mae SOP is to get back to you within 5 days of your application, even though they dick you around on when you can apply. FedLoan Servicing takes longer but is more willing to work with you, and they do all PSLF stuff. Don't apply for PAYE if you don't qualify because they'll just reject it, not give you IBR instead.

Also you can go off of last year's taxes (which is the fastest) by going to studentloans.gov. You'll need your FAFSA pin and some info from last year's taxes. I would suggest doing this, getting on a plan, and then once you have your payments, asking for an updated calculation based on your current situation. If you need to go by paper, fax it instead of mailing and put your account # on every page so they don't lose anything.

Do you know if it's more complicated if you're also applying for PSLF? Is that the same application?

[BarbellDreams]

I assume I can't get on PAYE but really wanna try to apply because I took out my first federal loan in undergrad in 2007...SEPTEMBER 2007...why they made October the cut off I have no idea. Either way, my first loans ever were 2007 so I kinda just wanna throw it out there.

I can't because my first was September 2006. I went K-JD, so I kind of feel like I'm getting super screwed out of PAYE here.

I went K-JD but I tarnsferred to my undergrad from 1 year of community college where my parents covered my $4000/year tuition out of pocket (that was physically painful to write out that I paid 4 freakin' grand for a year of school and 40K for law school (with expenses obviously)). So my loans started in my sophmore year of college which was 2007. My first loan was literally dispersed 3 weeks before the PAYE cutoff.

[Pretzel_Logic]

That's absolutely absurd. What an arbitrary cutoff.

[spleenworship]

I would kill someone to get on PAYE.

In other news, I have two job interviews this week. Screeners I think. I'm hoping for the best.

[mr. wednesday]

Do you know if it's more complicated if you're also applying for PSLF? Is that the same application?

It's a totally different application/process from IBR. PSLF, you just fill out an employer certification and mail it in. Then all of your loans are supposed to be transferred to FedLoan Servicing, but it could take months. You don't have to do them at the same time, either.

[cinephile]

Do you know if it's more complicated if you're also applying for PSLF? Is that the same application?

It's a totally different application/process from IBR. PSLF, you just fill out an employer certification and mail it in. Then all of your loans are supposed to be transferred to FedLoan Servicing, but it could take months. You don't have to do them at the same time, either.

Thanks. I'm not at the point of doing this yet, but once it happens, it'd be nice to have it processed right away. I want all my payments to count toward the 120.

[rad lulz]

I would kill someone to get on PAYE.

In other news, I have two job interviews this week. Screeners I think. I'm hoping for the best.

Good luck my dude

Callback yesterday went REALLY well. I don't want to get too excited about it, but it sounds like they need to hire one more person and its between me and one other person. This is the firm that I REALLY like that my buddy/roommate already accepted an offer for. It's insurance defense (which is exactly what I wanted to do), the perfect size, and has really good attorneys to learn from.

Super stoked, cross your fingers for me.

Twist: They want me to come back to meet more partners, making this three Wednesdays in a row that I drive two hours each way to meet new people at the firm. My buddy, on the other hand, did an on-campus screener and one callback.

Either way, I'm really excited about getting to go back. I think that means I have a real shot at this job. Pay isn't awesome, but it's above my "if I can make x amount for this city I'll be happy" line for the city, and the city is my top choice.

They serious bru

Show em why you are the man for the jerb

[mr. wednesday]

Do you know if it's more complicated if you're also applying for PSLF? Is that the same application?

It's a totally different application/process from IBR. PSLF, you just fill out an employer certification and mail it in. Then all of your loans are supposed to be transferred to FedLoan Servicing, but it could take months. You don't have to do them at the same time, either.

Thanks. I'm not at the point of doing this yet, but once it happens, it'd be nice to have it processed right away. I want all my payments to count toward the 120.

You don't have to wait until it's processed for them to count. Your qualifying employer can put your correct start date on the certification form and that will backdate any payments you made for PSLF purposes.

[chrisbru]

I would kill someone to get on PAYE.

In other news, I have two job interviews this week. Screeners I think. I'm hoping for the best.

Good luck on the interviews, kill 'em! (not literally)

So how does the PAYE qualifications look? I took out a small loan in undergrad, can't remember when (was either right before or right after the cutoff). I don't remember if it was private or gubernment, but I do know I payed it off over 2 years before I took out my first loan for law school in August 2011.

They serious bru

Show em why you are the man for the jerb

Thanks braj. Just the extra confidence boost to go in and charm the pants off them. I'm only meeting with three people, all partners. Last interview was one partner and five associates, and the first one was two partners (in-office OCI/screener, if you will—same two partners that did the OCI that they didn't offer me an interview at.)

Rags to riches ish? lol

[Pretzel_Logic]

Good luck on the interviews, kill 'em! (not literally)

From now on when I think about interviewing, I'm going to hear "Oooooohhh kill 'em" and this little kid dancing: Cousin Terrio

[Void]

Do you know if it's more complicated if you're also applying for PSLF? Is that the same application?

It's a totally different application/process from IBR. PSLF, you just fill out an employer certification and mail it in. Then all of your loans are supposed to be transferred to FedLoan Servicing, but it could take months. You don't have to do them at the same time, either.

Thanks. I'm not at the point of doing this yet, but once it happens, it'd be nice to have it processed right away. I want all my payments to count toward the 120.

You don't have to wait until it's processed for them to count. Your qualifying employer can put your correct start date on the certification form and that will backdate any payments you made for PSLF purposes.

Yeah my understanding is you'll even be able to wait 10 years and then backdate all the way if you want. The form is just a suggestion for you to be able to keep a paper trail of your qualifying employment. Basically nobody is really keeping tabs on you over the 120 payments. You just make the payments and apply for forgiveness when you're done, and at that point someone takes a look at your paperwork to see whether you qualify.

I'm psyched about it too though. With PAYE and PSLF, I may as well have borrowed even more money than I did- I'd end up paying back the same amount anyway.

[a male human]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7QtRCGQmrc

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys think I am shooting myself in the foot? I worked at a decent litigation firm over the summer. I have tons of corporate courses. I want to do corporate law. Now that I am applying to firms as a 3L, I am saying that I want to do corporate law... does that raise red flags with my litigation-oriented summer? I certainly prefer corporate to litigation, but would take litigation over unemployment any day.

[JazzOne]

Do you guys think I am shooting myself in the foot? I worked at a decent litigation firm over the summer. I have tons of corporate courses. I want to do corporate law. Now that I am applying to firms as a 3L, I am saying that I want to do corporate law... does that raise red flags with my litigation-oriented summer? I certainly prefer corporate to litigation, but would take litigation over unemployment any day.

I would think it depends on the firm you're applying to. Naturally, I would not tell a firm I wanted corporate if the firm only did litigation, or even if it was primarily known for litigation. But you can easily craft a story about how your summer experience shaped your current interests in corporate law.

[chrisbru]

Good luck on the interviews, kill 'em! (not literally)

From now on when I think about interviewing, I'm going to hear "Oooooohhh kill 'em" and this little kid dancing: Cousin Terrio

#swagfordays

[chrisbru]

Do you guys think I am shooting myself in the foot? I worked at a decent litigation firm over the summer. I have tons of corporate courses. I want to do corporate law. Now that I am applying to firms as a 3L, I am saying that I want to do corporate law... does that raise red flags with my litigation-oriented summer? I certainly prefer corporate to litigation, but would take litigation over unemployment any day.

Nah, you can easily say:

"Well I was originally interested in corporate law, so I focused my coursework on corporate practice. I had an opportunity to summer for a litigation firm, so I give it a shot so I could be certain which side of things I'd rather be on. After my summer experience, which I appreciated, I can firmly say that I want to be a corporate lawyer."

That's rough, obviously, so you'd want to practice that answer before going into interviews. But it should be something you're comfortable and confident saying in EVERY interview for a corporate position, whether it is directly asked or not. You should also be sure to indicate your preference in your letter. Hell, I even explain in my cover letter why I'm not going back to the firm I summered at so they know that I'm not just looking for leverage to negotiate with that firm and actually want to work for the firm I'm applying to.


Speaking of, but unrelated:

The girl I clerked with this summer blew my mind the other day. She wasn't pre-selected for a firm that was close in size/reputation/practice areas as the firm we summered at, but got lotteried into an interview slot (our school does half pre-selected half-lottery for all OCI firms). After the interview she text me and said "Hey, I know why neither of us got pre-selected for that firm... The first question they asked me was "So, would you go back to [summer firm] if they offered you a job?" LOL OMG I had no idea what to say, can you believe that???"

I was speechless. The thought that she not only DIDN'T COMPLETELY EXPECT that to be a question in the interview, but was actually TAKEN ABACK that they would ask her that just shocked me. I mean, come on...

[JazzOne]

So for all those that are struggling to find work, why not just go solo for a bit? I know it'll be tough but some $$ is better than nothing right? Especially since you guys would be considered "over qualified" for retail positions. Also, how deep into debt are you guys? Would you say that there is still a significant advantage in going to a tier 1 school over a TTTT given the tough market all around?

I went to law school on a full scholarship, so my debt is comparatively low. I thought about going solo for a while, but that was a terrifying prospect to me. I am extremely glad that I took the scholarship money instead of attending a T14 for prestige. My only regret is that I didn't apply to any T14 schools. In retrospect, I might have been able to snag significant scholarship money from a T14, but that's water under the bridge. My low debt allows me to leave the practice of law and pursue academia. I have been much happier since I made that decision.

I'm curious about how you plan to "pursue academia." Are you either teaching at - or trying to teach at - a law school? Are you trying to teach at the undergraduate level? If the latter, do you have some non-JD degree that you think will land you teaching work?

Nevermind. I should have just looked at your profile.

Are you interested in academia? I don't mind answering questions.

I do not currently teach at a law school, but I want to, and I will be applying for a position soon. I am currently teaching at the undergraduate level. I do not have a graduate degree other than my JD. I think my eight years of teaching experience helped me land this job. It was one of the few academic positions I have seen lately that didn't require a PhD. Now that I am a full-time academic, I am considering a PhD in chemical engineering of all things. I have a background in the hard sciences (prior to law school).

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys think I am shooting myself in the foot? I worked at a decent litigation firm over the summer. I have tons of corporate courses. I want to do corporate law. Now that I am applying to firms as a 3L, I am saying that I want to do corporate law... does that raise red flags with my litigation-oriented summer? I certainly prefer corporate to litigation, but would take litigation over unemployment any day.

I am the guy that originally asked this. I was wondering more about when I apply to firms/mass mail. I say I want to do corporate even though it is clear that my firm was litigation oriented. In interviews, I do not think this is a problem because of extensive coursework/activities in corporate law. I am just afraid that on the cover letters, I look flaky, undecided, and not mature because I want to make that change.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of, but unrelated:

The girl I clerked with this summer blew my mind the other day. She wasn't pre-selected for a firm that was close in size/reputation/practice areas as the firm we summered at, but got lotteried into an interview slot (our school does half pre-selected half-lottery for all OCI firms). After the interview she text me and said "Hey, I know why neither of us got pre-selected for that firm... The first question they asked me was "So, would you go back to [summer firm] if they offered you a job?" LOL OMG I had no idea what to say, can you believe that???"

I was speechless. The thought that she not only DIDN'T COMPLETELY EXPECT that to be a question in the interview, but was actually TAKEN ABACK that they would ask her that just shocked me. I mean, come on...

A lot of the people that did well at my school's OCI seemed to not be very prepared. During a party they started mentioning some of their answers to common questions, and the answers were often terrible (I am speaking of why this law school? Cause it is the best one that accepted me). However, it also matters a lot how they say it, how smiley they are and other such factors, than can easy make up for such luck of preparation.

[cinephile]

Speaking of, but unrelated:

The girl I clerked with this summer blew my mind the other day. She wasn't pre-selected for a firm that was close in size/reputation/practice areas as the firm we summered at, but got lotteried into an interview slot (our school does half pre-selected half-lottery for all OCI firms). After the interview she text me and said "Hey, I know why neither of us got pre-selected for that firm... The first question they asked me was "So, would you go back to [summer firm] if they offered you a job?" LOL OMG I had no idea what to say, can you believe that???"

I was speechless. The thought that she not only DIDN'T COMPLETELY EXPECT that to be a question in the interview, but was actually TAKEN ABACK that they would ask her that just shocked me. I mean, come on...

I'm curious as to what the "right" answer to a question like this would be.

[Pretzel_Logic]

I probably would've said something dumb like "Yeah, what kind of stupid question is that?"

I mean, seriously. Make an offer and then we can negotiate. I know they're trying to suss out flight risks but that's just a silly thing to ask.

[chrisbru]

I'm curious as to what the "right" answer to a question like this would be.

I think "yeah, I weighed school rank, employment prospects, cost, and location, and this school turned out to be the best choice" would be fine. I'm not sure what they're trying to get at with that question.

[Anonymous User]

I would love to conduct an interview for once. I think I would make it a lot of fun...or at least interesting.

[kalvano]

I would judge candidates by whatever song was queued up on their iPod at that moment.

[Bikeflip]

I'm curious as to what the "right" answer to a question like this would be.

I think "yeah, I weighed school rank, employment prospects, cost, and location, and this school turned out to be the best choice" would be fine. I'm not sure what they're trying to get at with that question.

I wouldn't say rank. What if the interviewer has a different ranking system where, mentally, her school is better than your school? This happened to me in an interview and left me in a very awkward position. Objectively, it's harder for the interviewer to take issue with the other elements you mentioned.