V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

Corporate attorney here. Maybe I just have impostor syndrome, but I sometimes feel that my understanding of the deals I work on is very superficial. I am able to add value by looking at the precedents and understanding it that way, but I do not know the law that drives a certain transaction or certain language to be a certain way. Do not feel like i know what I am doing, but I feel like I am very diligent by looking at resources/precedents available to me. I have noticed this on some of the more senior people also. Is that normal and at what year is the expectation that you actually know in depth what is happening.

[Anonymous User]

What are your thoughts about emailing a partner alum of the law school when mass-mailing for SA positions instead of emailing the hiring manager or recruiting contact? Is it frowned upon? Is it slimy to go behind the recruiting contact’s back? If you weren’t involved in the recruiting/hiring process, would you mind if a student at your alma mater sent you an email containing a cover letter, resume, transcript, etc.?

[itbdvorm]

"Do you think having a hard time with my boss" is a legit excuse to start looking elsewhere? I know real life world can be unforgiving but as a junior it is hard to figure out whether my partner is unusually mean and nasty or most partners are just like that. I certainly never dealt with such personality in non-legal workplace.

Legit reason, sure

Legit excuse, no

Don't tell prospective employers that's why you're looking. Nothing good comes from it.

[itbdvorm]

Corporate attorney here. Maybe I just have impostor syndrome, but I sometimes feel that my understanding of the deals I work on is very superficial. I am able to add value by looking at the precedents and understanding it that way, but I do not know the law that drives a certain transaction or certain language to be a certain way. Do not feel like i know what I am doing, but I feel like I am very diligent by looking at resources/precedents available to me. I have noticed this on some of the more senior people also. Is that normal and at what year is the expectation that you actually know in depth what is happening.

Normal, absolutely

What year...really depends. In some areas of law it's just the super-senior guys who actually remember when a case came down and why things are written a certain way

[itbdvorm]

What are your thoughts about emailing a partner alum of the law school when mass-mailing for SA positions instead of emailing the hiring manager or recruiting contact? Is it frowned upon? Is it slimy to go behind the recruiting contact’s back? If you weren’t involved in the recruiting/hiring process, would you mind if a student at your alma mater sent you an email containing a cover letter, resume, transcript, etc.?

You can, but not that likely to be that helpful

[candidlatke]

Forgive me if this is nitpicking/trivial but is there a correct/ideal interview posture?

I've alternated between leaning back against the chair sitting up straight and leaning in towards the interview at about a 65 degree angle. Is either of these two approaches worse/better than the other? I think the former is a bit more relaxed while the latter seems to convey more interest but I'm not sure how they come off to the interviewer.

[itbdvorm]

Forgive me if this is nitpicking/trivial but is there a correct/ideal interview posture?

I've alternated between leaning back against the chair sitting up straight and leaning in towards the interview at about a 65 degree angle. Is either of these two approaches worse/better than the other? I think the former is a bit more relaxed while the latter seems to convey more interest but I'm not sure how they come off to the interviewer.

No - but there are obviously bad ones

I am sure there are psychology guides, etc., that discuss bad postures and poses

[FSK]

Lets say trump kills my DOJ Honors job. Any way to apply to you after a clerkship and use that offer as a feather in my hat, without coming off terrible? Its definitively the most impressive thing I've done.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking your time to help out rookie lawyers. I'm a junior finance associate at a big law firm in California. I'm 1.5 years into the job but I'm contemplating switching to other transactional practices like m&a or startup/VC work. I think the following are the reasons causing my disenchantment for finance, but I wanted to get your thoughts on whether these are issues that could be avoided by leaving my current practice or are pitfalls inherent in any transactional practice.

1. The work is too repetitive. I mainly do acquisition/ leverage finance, and even the tasks performed by my senior partners seem to come down to narrow (admittedly complex)set of issues such as negotiating the EBITDA definition and the permitted baskets for investment, intercompany loan and etc or the debt cap definition under the intercreditor agmt.

2. When dealing with bankers or PEs, I feel like my folks are a viewed merely as technicians specializing in documentation. A lot of my colleagues always talk about the business side as if legal is the coequal half of the transaction, but I feel like what my group does is simply deciphering the terms that the business folks agreed to and faithfully documenting it while doing some "risk mitigation" here and there.

[itbdvorm]

Lets say trump kills my DOJ Honors job. Any way to apply to you after a clerkship and use that offer as a feather in my hat, without coming off terrible? Its definitively the most impressive thing I've done.

"Apply" - probably not

But definitely a good time to have a cup of coffee with friends from LS

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for taking your time to help out rookie lawyers. I'm a junior finance associate at a big law firm in California. I'm 1.5 years into the job but I'm contemplating switching to other transactional practices like m&a or startup/VC work. I think the following are the reasons causing my disenchantment for finance, but I wanted to get your thoughts on whether these are issues that could be avoided by leaving my current practice or are pitfalls inherent in any transactional practice.

1. The work is too repetitive. I mainly do acquisition/ leverage finance, and even the tasks performed by my senior partners seem to come down to narrow (admittedly complex)set of issues such as negotiating the EBITDA definition and the permitted baskets for investment, intercompany loan and etc or the debt cap definition under the intercreditor agmt.

2. When dealing with bankers or PEs, I feel like my folks are a viewed merely as technicians specializing in documentation. A lot of my colleagues always talk about the business side as if legal is the coequal half of the transaction, but I feel like what my group does is simply deciphering the terms that the business folks agreed to and faithfully documenting it while doing some "risk mitigation" here and there.

1 - some differentiation - finance is definitely the most repetitive, without usually the mitigating factors of at least learning about a company to describe it the right way for public company work

2 - that's probably not something that changes dramatically, sadly, though it is better in other practice groups

[note7wins]

Thanks for taking your time to help out rookie lawyers. I'm a junior finance associate at a big law firm in California. I'm 1.5 years into the job but I'm contemplating switching to other transactional practices like m&a or startup/VC work. I think the following are the reasons causing my disenchantment for finance, but I wanted to get your thoughts on whether these are issues that could be avoided by leaving my current practice or are pitfalls inherent in any transactional practice.

1. The work is too repetitive. I mainly do acquisition/ leverage finance, and even the tasks performed by my senior partners seem to come down to narrow (admittedly complex)set of issues such as negotiating the EBITDA definition and the permitted baskets for investment, intercompany loan and etc or the debt cap definition under the intercreditor agmt.

2. When dealing with bankers or PEs, I feel like my folks are a viewed merely as technicians specializing in documentation. A lot of my colleagues always talk about the business side as if legal is the coequal half of the transaction, but I feel like what my group does is simply deciphering the terms that the business folks agreed to and faithfully documenting it while doing some "risk mitigation" here and there.

1 - some differentiation - finance is definitely the most repetitive, without usually the mitigating factors of at least learning about a company to describe it the right way for public company work

2 - that's probably not something that changes dramatically, sadly, though it is better in other practice groups

Thanks for doing this -- not the finance associate above, but what are the tasks performed by senior partners doing M&A or other areas of general corp? What value do you bring to your clients other than documentation? Do you find your work fulfilling? Lastly, do you think AI would be able to replace seasoned transactional attorneys in the near future?

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for taking your time to help out rookie lawyers. I'm a junior finance associate at a big law firm in California. I'm 1.5 years into the job but I'm contemplating switching to other transactional practices like m&a or startup/VC work. I think the following are the reasons causing my disenchantment for finance, but I wanted to get your thoughts on whether these are issues that could be avoided by leaving my current practice or are pitfalls inherent in any transactional practice.

1. The work is too repetitive. I mainly do acquisition/ leverage finance, and even the tasks performed by my senior partners seem to come down to narrow (admittedly complex)set of issues such as negotiating the EBITDA definition and the permitted baskets for investment, intercompany loan and etc or the debt cap definition under the intercreditor agmt.

2. When dealing with bankers or PEs, I feel like my folks are a viewed merely as technicians specializing in documentation. A lot of my colleagues always talk about the business side as if legal is the coequal half of the transaction, but I feel like what my group does is simply deciphering the terms that the business folks agreed to and faithfully documenting it while doing some "risk mitigation" here and there.

1 - some differentiation - finance is definitely the most repetitive, without usually the mitigating factors of at least learning about a company to describe it the right way for public company work

2 - that's probably not something that changes dramatically, sadly, though it is better in other practice groups

Thanks for doing this -- not the finance associate above, but what are the tasks performed by senior partners doing M&A or other areas of general corp? What value do you bring to your clients other than documentation? Do you find your work fulfilling? Lastly, do you think AI would be able to replace seasoned transactional attorneys in the near future?

"tasks" is a pretty broad term. lots of strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications.

junior transactional attorneys maybe. "seasoned" is much further off

[Anonymous User]

For juniors, what's the earliest time you can do at a firm before lateraling out to another firm and not look like a hopper?

[Anonymous User]

"tasks" is a pretty broad term. lots of strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications.

junior transactional attorneys maybe. "seasoned" is much further off

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=273641

This just came from a managment consultant. How do I fight him back

[itbdvorm]

For juniors, what's the earliest time you can do at a firm before lateraling out to another firm and not look like a hopper?

depends where/why/what

never too early to hop to wachtell

I'd generally be nervous of someone lateralling before at least a year, 2 years without a very specific rationale

but stories along the lines of "I joined to do litigation, they stuck me in project finance, I am applying to do litigation" are easier sells

[itbdvorm]

"tasks" is a pretty broad term. lots of strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications.

junior transactional attorneys maybe. "seasoned" is much further off

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=273641

This just came from a managment consultant. How do I fight him back

Tell him to say that to a top firm partner's face.

[Anonymous User]

"tasks" is a pretty broad term. lots of strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications.

junior transactional attorneys maybe. "seasoned" is much further off

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=273641

This just came from a managment consultant. How do I fight him back

Tell him to say that to a top firm partner's face.

Will do. But I am curious as to the work that you describe as "strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications". Would much appreciate few examples.

[lawlorbust]

"tasks" is a pretty broad term. lots of strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications.

junior transactional attorneys maybe. "seasoned" is much further off

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=273641

This just came from a managment consultant. How do I fight him back

Tell him to say that to a top firm partner's face.

Nonresponsive!

[itbdvorm]

"tasks" is a pretty broad term. lots of strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications.

junior transactional attorneys maybe. "seasoned" is much further off

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=273641

This just came from a managment consultant. How do I fight him back

Tell him to say that to a top firm partner's face.

Will do. But I am curious as to the work that you describe as "strategic advice, thinking, etc. questions about business decisions and implications". Would much appreciate few examples.

Am I going to give advice about how to sell widgets? Of course not. But trying to structure a deal is a lot more than "putting the right terms in". Good transactional lawyers are able to help their clients - and often the other side - solve problems. I am not going to be the one discussing whether you should open an office in Krakow, but I am going to be the one to help you figure out how to do it.

[Anonymous User]

I am a transfer from T1 to T14 and struck out at OCI last fall. I somehow managed to get a ~4.0 last semester, with As in substantive courses. Assuming that I will maintain the GPA this semester, what's my chance of getting Biglaw as a 3L this fall (targeting NYC, corporate) and what kind of 2L summer jobs would better position me for 3L OCI? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

[itbdvorm]

I am a transfer from T1 to T14 and struck out at OCI last fall. I somehow managed to get a ~4.0 last semester, with As in substantive courses. Assuming that I will maintain the GPA this semester, what's my chance of getting Biglaw as a 3L this fall (targeting NYC, corporate) and what kind of 2L summer jobs would better position me for 3L OCI? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

Reasonably good chance I would think.

I would talk to your professors first and see if they know anyone / have any suggestions - if they gave you an A they might be willing to help

In-house summer gigs would be best.

good luck

[Anonymous User]

I am a transfer from T1 to T14 and struck out at OCI last fall. I somehow managed to get a ~4.0 last semester, with As in substantive courses. Assuming that I will maintain the GPA this semester, what's my chance of getting Biglaw as a 3L this fall (targeting NYC, corporate) and what kind of 2L summer jobs would better position me for 3L OCI? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

Reasonably good chance I would think.

I would talk to your professors first and see if they know anyone / have any suggestions - if they gave you an A they might be willing to help

In-house summer gigs would be best.

good luck

I have a summer position with a big law firm in TX and want to move to Chicago with another big law firm. I am also a transfer to T14 and landed in top 30% after fall semester. Would I have a chance with 3L OCI? Does it help that I have a Biochem background and will take the patent bar before the summer?

[itbdvorm]

I am a transfer from T1 to T14 and struck out at OCI last fall. I somehow managed to get a ~4.0 last semester, with As in substantive courses. Assuming that I will maintain the GPA this semester, what's my chance of getting Biglaw as a 3L this fall (targeting NYC, corporate) and what kind of 2L summer jobs would better position me for 3L OCI? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

Reasonably good chance I would think.

I would talk to your professors first and see if they know anyone / have any suggestions - if they gave you an A they might be willing to help

In-house summer gigs would be best.

good luck

I have a summer position with a big law firm in TX and want to move to Chicago with another big law firm. I am also a transfer to T14 and landed in top 30% after fall semester. Would I have a chance with 3L OCI? Does it help that I have a Biochem background and will take the patent bar before the summer?

chance - sure

figure out which firms have good patent law groups and apply

but be sure to get an offer from TX firm first

good luck

[Anonymous User]

What are your opinions on the traditional big Texas firms like V&E, Baker Botts, and NRF compared to the New York satellites opening up shop in cities like Houston and Dallas? I'm spending 1L summer with a Texas firm so I'm wondering which side will likely have better prospects in the future? Could you maybe talk about the Texas big 3, some traditional Texas powerhouses (Andrews Kurth, Thompson & Knight, Jackson Walker, etc.) and the satellites (K&E, Latham, Paul Hastings, Hogan, etc.)?

Edited to add - interested in transactional work.

Many thanks in advance!