V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

I don't do litigation, but I have to assume a non-Article III Fed clerkship will only be appealing to the specific area. Not going to lie - your level of typos makes me worry about your ability to succeed at a white shoe firm anyway.

This is incredibly obnoxious.

there's regular unavoidable smartphone typos and carelessness in an online forum, and then there's evidence of lack of a sufficient grasp of basic grammatical and syntax principles. pointing out the former is plainly obnoxious, but pointing out the latter is more of a word to the wise IMHO. This was more of the latter.

I know you like this guy, but the comment was a silly jab.

Whether or not you think anon above demonstrated a ""lack of a sufficient grasp of basic grammatical and syntax principles,"" you should know by now that even at great firms there are lawyers whose writing is as clear as mud.

No need to be a dick. The world does enough of that.

That's cool. Many of those lawyers are senior partners who proved their worth at a time when typing was not important and secretaries were graduates from the Seven Sisters.

Ability to write clearly and brilliance are not always correlated. HOWEVER, if you cannot express yourself clearly at a near-perfect level on a consistent basis people will not necessarily give you the chance to demonstrate your intellect.

That particular poster had two consecutive posts which I found nearly incomprehensible. If I received even one email from a junior that looked like that, I'd never work with him/her ever again. I have no idea whether that person was posting from a phone or a desktop, but regardless most people here seem to be able to communicate at a reasonably high level. That person failed to do so.

If that was the exception, great. If that was the norm, that person should LISTEN to this advice and think about it, and either try to fix it, try to go someplace else other than the many firms that will ream you for writing like this, or I guess just decide "I know more than this person, screw him, I'm a special snowflake, blah blah blah."

[smaug]

You've become a partner indeed.

[itbdvorm]

but what are the prospects when one becomes counsel

varies WIDELY by firm and group. really goes to ambition/skillset on some level. plenty of specialist counsels who work in a particular area, know it super-well, work on relevant deals, etc. those folks can actually have a great work/life balance if they find the right fit. others want to become partner, and may indeed do so, if they can find the right path forward. all in all a very logical stepping stone for ex-government folks - you get a title which demonstrates you know your stuff and an opportunity to prove your partnership worth if applicable

not the same anon, but can you elaborate on this? i know you said it's very firm specific, but i'm curious about how do of counsel fit into the larger pyramid that is big law. for example, do they have books of business or do they work with partners on their clients' projects? what kinds of billables do they have to put up each year? can you be of counsel with the expectation that you will just stay of counsel instead of having to gun for partner? etc...

i'm IP and my current plan is to exit to in-house, but i always joke with my law school friends about trying to get on the "of-counsel track" as it seems like it can be decent good pay with (somewhat) decent work-life balance.

Totally depends on the firm, the counsel, the practice, etc. But there are plenty of "permanent" counsels. Usually not a book of business, but service other partners/clients of the firm with demonstrated competence, etc.

I would say if you are one of just a few people practicing in a niche area it's a solid possibility. Not going to see many in the true bread-and-butter practice areas but in the supporting areas very common

[itbdvorm]

In response to a PM (thought could be useful for others):

Yes, I think Brexit will seriously affect the Magic Circle firms, at least in the near-term (and possibly permanently). With so much of their revenues denominated in pounds, this will really put a hurt on the overseas/US expansion plans. If you're a UK firm trying to make inroads into NYC (as all of them except Slaughters are trying to do), your ability to invest in dollars with a seriously weakened pound is going to be drastically limited. So either you're going to cut back on US investment (leaving the people here out to dry) or stay the course (hurting your profitability and making it more likely that some top folks in the UK pursue other opportunities).

Great opportunity for the US firms with serious UK presences (Latham, Skadden, Cleary, etc.) to poach some of the top talent from the Magic Circle.

Thanks for the really useful insight, and the last line really caught my eye. I assumed that US firms with a serious presence in the UK would be hurt by a post-Brexit business slowdown just as much as the Magic Circle. As a US student heading into recruitment season and now reconsidering a London focus, I assumed any UK office of any nationality was in a bad place. Am I right that you think US firms won't really suffer?

I don't. I actually think those are the ones who may get a boost here (as clients will have loads of questions regarding potential issues, transitioning businesses, opening up new outposts in other parts of Europe, etc.)

I expect the US firms with roughly "self-sufficient" UK branches will be fine, as the hit to the exchange rate of the pound should defray almost any costs of having less work. The firms where the UK branches are really funding the rest of the operation (i.e., Magic Circle) are going to take a big hit, as suddenly the NY outpost is 20% more expensive and still not really sending $$$ back

It's been interesting to watch the beginning of the Brexit process play out, and it seems like your poaching predictions were spot on http://www.americanlawyer.com/home/id=1 ... curindex=2. There's even a subsection called "Latham Continues London Hiring Spree." I'm curious about the other half of the prediction too; are there any objective measures or information sources out there for comparing London offices and knowing which US firms are "self-sufficient"?

Maybe size as a rough proxy? Chambers guides? Some firms have real presences - others just have a tiny outpost

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Considering most partner emails are usually empty with phrases like "where r ww on this pls update?" in the subject line, that interaction upthread was pretty rich.

[Anonymous User]

is there a good way to screen out during the interview whether the partner i might be working for is an asshole/screamer/insane? i know all partners are type-A competitive types to begin with but some are just insufferable.

[itbdvorm]

Considering most partner emails are usually empty with phrases like "where r ww on this pls update?" in the subject line, that interaction upthread was pretty rich.

Suit yourself. This is a profession that requires as much clarity as possible as often as possible. Even the above example, pretty sure the recipient knows exactly what to do

[Man from Nantucket]

is there a good way to screen out during the interview whether the partner i might be working for is an asshole/screamer/insane? i know all partners are type-A competitive types to begin with but some are just insufferable.

Ask them how they would react if you failed to express yourself clearly at a near-perfect level on a consistent basis.

[itbdvorm]

is there a good way to screen out during the interview whether the partner i might be working for is an asshole/screamer/insane? i know all partners are type-A competitive types to begin with but some are just insufferable.

Really tough one. Reputation of the place is going to be a strong initial sign. But honestly people can show so many different sides hard to tell. One of the worst I'd ever dealt with seemed charming and pleasant during our conversation. One of the best I'd ever dealt with seemed cold and aloof.

Best subtle sign could be how they treat others - but even then could be a show for you.

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Considering most partner emails are usually empty with phrases like "where r ww on this pls update?" in the subject line, that interaction upthread was pretty rich.

Suit yourself. This is a profession that requires as much clarity as possible as often as possible. Even the above example, pretty sure the recipient knows exactly what to do

As someone who slaves over crafting good emails, I'm mainly just being jocular here.

However, my general impression seems to be that the more senior the partner, the less coherent their communications are. My disagreement isn't that this job doesn't require clarity, specificity, and near-perfect attention to detail. It does. It's just that the luxury of being lazy on email seems to be something people earn, not a sign of intelligence.

Holy cow am I quibbling though. Sorry.

[lawlorbust]

Considering most partner emails are usually empty with phrases like "where r ww on this pls update?" in the subject line, that interaction upthread was pretty rich.

Suit yourself. This is a profession that requires as much clarity as possible as often as possible. Even the above example, pretty sure the recipient knows exactly what to do

buddy you forgot the period

[candidlatke]

Guys, he's been helping out people for 150+ pages; he made a quibble that could be seen as a bit harsh, but was it really so egregious as to be worth piling on this and damaging a relationship with someone who's genuinely tried to give good/thoughtful advice to new attorneys?

[ArtistOfManliness]

Considering most partner emails are usually empty with phrases like "where r ww on this pls update?" in the subject line, that interaction upthread was pretty rich.

Suit yourself. This is a profession that requires as much clarity as possible as often as possible. Even the above example, pretty sure the recipient knows exactly what to do

buddy you forgot the period

Roasted.

[hangold]

Guys, he's been helping out people for 150+ pages; he made a quibble that could be seen as a bit harsh, but was it really so egregious as to be worth piling on this and damaging a relationship with someone who's genuinely tried to give good/thoughtful advice to new attorneys?

+1

[esther0123]

Guys, he's been helping out people for 150+ pages; he made a quibble that could be seen as a bit harsh, but was it really so egregious as to be worth piling on this and damaging a relationship with someone who's genuinely tried to give good/thoughtful advice to new attorneys?

+1

I agree!

[cron1834]

Also, partner is definitely correct re: the OP at issue. It was ESOL caliber writing. Plus it was a dumb question anyway.

[Danger Zone]

Also, partner is definitely correct re: the OP at issue. It was ESOL caliber writing. Plus it was a dumb question anyway.

Thanks for your valuable contribution

[Anonymous User]

How do you look at laterals coming in from gov, who started their career there? I'm starting my career at justice (antitrust, or civil-commercial, to preserve some anonymity), and may have to go to a firm for the money after 3 or so years. My credentials are strong enough to get hired through the honors program, but not stellar. Any thoughts?

[itbdvorm]

How do you look at laterals coming in from gov, who started their career there? I'm starting my career at justice (antitrust, or civil-commercial, to preserve some anonymity), and may have to go to a firm for the money after 3 or so years. My credentials are strong enough to get hired through the honors program, but not stellar. Any thoughts?

Depends in large part about the experience you get - but many ex-government attorneys have made for excellent laterals.

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys have a hard cap on your 2L summer associate class? I imagine you have a limited number of offices/desks, but what if you get a subpar 1L group of applicants in the spring? Could a 2L potentially slide in if he applied in March/April?

[itbdvorm]

Do you guys have a hard cap on your 2L summer associate class? I imagine you have a limited number of offices/desks, but what if you get a subpar 1L group of applicants in the spring? Could a 2L potentially slide in if he applied in March/April?

We're usually "done" in March/April (long beforehand really). If extenuating circumstances, maybe, but would have to be along the lines of "X had a summer associate position lined up in DC, but really needs to be in NY" or something

[throwaway456]

I think I'm in a fairly unique job situation and would love to ask you some questions about my upcoming job search, but I don't want to out myself. Is it alright if I pm you?

[itbdvorm]

I think I'm in a fairly unique job situation and would love to ask you some questions about my upcoming job search, but I don't want to out myself. Is it alright if I pm you?

Sure

[Anonymous User]

"Do you think having a hard time with my boss" is a legit excuse to start looking elsewhere? I know real life world can be unforgiving but as a junior it is hard to figure out whether my partner is unusually mean and nasty or most partners are just like that. I certainly never dealt with such personality in non-legal workplace.

[clshopeful]

Guys, he's been helping out people for 150+ pages; he made a quibble that could be seen as a bit harsh, but was it really so egregious as to be worth piling on this and damaging a relationship with someone who's genuinely tried to give good/thoughtful advice to new attorneys?

+1

I agree!

Welcome to TLS, where people explode at the tiniest statements that could be taken as gloating or pretentious.