V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[21157015576609]

Hello. I went from a small firm to insurance defense biglaw firm after gaining 1 yr lit exp. This ID firm is not working out for me and I am looking for a way out. As a junior with 1 yr of lit exp, how can I minimize red/yellow flags for having 2 month of experience in this ID firm on my resume? What can I do to at least get a look beyond the short stint?

Well, you can't. You should stick it out as long as you can...

I know I am making a drastic change so early on and it is ill advised. But it has to be done and I am trying to figure out how to minimize the damage or at least communicate that I am not a hopper. I have a 2 yr and 4 yr job pre-law to prove I am loyal.

Could I leave this firm out of my resume entirely? I might be able to reach out to my previous boss to do some contract work for him to keep the old firms name on my resume to close the 2 month gap.

Since you'd need to disclose your work with that firm eventually, if only for the purpose of conflicts checks, it's probably just best to leave them on.

[itbdvorm]

Hello. I went from a small firm to insurance defense biglaw firm after gaining 1 yr lit exp. This ID firm is not working out for me and I am looking for a way out. As a junior with 1 yr of lit exp, how can I minimize red/yellow flags for having 2 month of experience in this ID firm on my resume? What can I do to at least get a look beyond the short stint?

Well, you can't. You should stick it out as long as you can...

I know I am making a drastic change so early on and it is ill advised. But it has to be done and I am trying to figure out how to minimize the damage or at least communicate that I am not a hopper. I have a 2 yr and 4 yr job pre-law to prove I am loyal.

Could I leave this firm out of my resume entirely? I might be able to reach out to my previous boss to do some contract work for him to keep the old firms name on my resume to close the 2 month gap.

Since you'd need to disclose your work with that firm eventually, if only for the purpose of conflicts checks, it's probably just best to leave them on.

I think your only path is to reach out to your previous boss for ideas. Without a strong recommendation from someone I know who has actually worked with you your description sounds frankly pretty radioactive.

[EncyclopediaOrange]

There have been some conflicting views as to how the Trump presidency will affect the legal market. I know it is not possible to fully predict how it all will shake out, but do you have any preliminary thoughts on short to midterm biglaw hiring?

[Wild Card]

What do you think about the upcoming merger between Arnold & Porter and Kaye Scholer?

[itbdvorm]

There have been some conflicting views as to how the Trump presidency will affect the legal market. I know it is not possible to fully predict how it all will shake out, but do you have any preliminary thoughts on short to midterm biglaw hiring?

Doubt it does much of anything in the short/medium term. But if cap gains rates are actually lowered, I expect to see quite a bit of increased M&A, particularly PE activity as family-owned businesses start selling

[Anonymous User]

To what extent should associates chose their practice area based on exit opps? Going to big NYC V20 firm. I enjoy litigation work more than corporate and feel I am better at it. But: Everyone I talk to comments how much worse exit opps are for litigators -- particularly if you do not want to go government/AUSA route. Your thoughts? Should I do corporate work just to have a higher shot at a better shot at a stable/good paying in house gig after I most likely leave the firm in 3-5 years?

[itbdvorm]

What do you think about the upcoming merger between Arnold & Porter and Kaye Scholer?

A big "eh". Not sure what a combination of a top-tier DC firm and a middle-of-the-pack NY firm really gets you.

[itbdvorm]

To what extent should associates chose their practice area based on exit opps? Going to big NYC V20 firm. I enjoy litigation work more than corporate and feel I am better at it. But: Everyone I talk to comments how much worse exit opps are for litigators -- particularly if you do not want to go government/AUSA route. Your thoughts? Should I do corporate work just to have a higher shot at a better shot at a stable/good paying in house gig after I most likely leave the firm in 3-5 years?

If you have the opportunity to try both, try both. You may find you like something different than you thought you did. But if you truly love litigation, no reason not to pursue that path. I guess I would just try to think long and hard about what path you want to follow.

[Anonymous User]

I'm pretty sure that i want to be a litigator but the firm I'm summering at mostly does internal investigations/enforcements/agency adjudications. Time to find a new practice area (or a new firm)?

[itbdvorm]

I'm pretty sure that i want to be a litigator but the firm I'm summering at mostly does internal investigations/enforcements/agency adjudications. Time to find a new practice area (or a new firm)?

That is a type of litigation...try it first

[Anonymous User]

Thinking about quitting three months in. My firm has a revolving door policy where people leave and come back after a while and it's generally not a big deal.

Just curious, I probably wouldn't have the option to come back because I left literally three months in right? Obviously I don't imagine wanting to come back but just thought I would ask.

[Anonymous User]

I'm pretty sure that i want to be a litigator but the firm I'm summering at mostly does internal investigations/enforcements/agency adjudications. Time to find a new practice area (or a new firm)?

That is a type of litigation...try it first

I'm interested in them, but I'm worried about whether those practices areas will exist under the Trump administration (that was the point of my question my apologies for being unclear)

[Anonymous User]

Can you give advice on how to deal with difficult partners? i.e., ones who scream, yell, and generally have a mean tone and attitude.

[itbdvorm]

Thinking about quitting three months in. My firm has a revolving door policy where people leave and come back after a while and it's generally not a big deal.

Just curious, I probably wouldn't have the option to come back because I left literally three months in right? Obviously I don't imagine wanting to come back but just thought I would ask.

No, I don't think you could come back. I'd try to fix why you want to leave before leaving, but that's just me.

[itbdvorm]

I'm pretty sure that i want to be a litigator but the firm I'm summering at mostly does internal investigations/enforcements/agency adjudications. Time to find a new practice area (or a new firm)?

That is a type of litigation...try it first

I'm interested in them, but I'm worried about whether those practices areas will exist under the Trump administration (that was the point of my question my apologies for being unclear)

Nah - of course it will still exist

[itbdvorm]

Can you give advice on how to deal with difficult partners? i.e., ones who scream, yell, and generally have a mean tone and attitude.

Perfect work + avoidance in the future?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for fielding so many questions--seriously.

I'm trying to gauge how competitive I am for big firms in major markets (pretty broad range, I know). I took a weird path: summa at a T20; two years of general lit at a small firm in a small, midwest market; currently doing a midwest COA clerkship. I thought I would like being a big fish in a small pond, but I didn't. I want to give a major market a shot (and I wouldn't mind the clerkship bonus). I'd probably prefer Chicago, because I'm a midwest person, but I don't really care which major market.

Will anyone look at me, given my first job? And do I need a better explanation than the above (sans the bonus, obviously)?

[Anonymous User]

For a 1L or 2L applying to a firm that requires an undergraduate transcript/GPA, if their UG GPA was abysmal (like <3.0), would it be in their best interest to email a hiring partner with a concise message about it? Something with a message like "Hey I know my UG GPA was really bad, but I've changed and please look at my law school performance/activity instead." (worded a lot more cleanly of course)

I get the idea that you don't want to call attention to weaknesses but if it's going to come up at some point (since they're asking for it), is there any harm to doing so?

[Anonymous User]

How much do 2l grades really matter? I'm not asking if its ok to fail, but going from an A- average to a B...is that going to get you no offered?

[Anonymous User]

Does your firm hire laterals? How much do grades matter for lateral hiring? can you speak to in-house?

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for fielding so many questions--seriously.

I'm trying to gauge how competitive I am for big firms in major markets (pretty broad range, I know). I took a weird path: summa at a T20; two years of general lit at a small firm in a small, midwest market; currently doing a midwest COA clerkship. I thought I would like being a big fish in a small pond, but I didn't. I want to give a major market a shot (and I wouldn't mind the clerkship bonus). I'd probably prefer Chicago, because I'm a midwest person, but I don't really care which major market.

Will anyone look at me, given my first job? And do I need a better explanation than the above (sans the bonus, obviously)?

Finishing a COA clerkship? Competitive almost anywhere. You won't need much explanation - people will know you want to do "top-tier work" or equivalent. Good luck.

[itbdvorm]

For a 1L or 2L applying to a firm that requires an undergraduate transcript/GPA, if their UG GPA was abysmal (like <3.0), would it be in their best interest to email a hiring partner with a concise message about it? Something with a message like "Hey I know my UG GPA was really bad, but I've changed and please look at my law school performance/activity instead." (worded a lot more cleanly of course)

I get the idea that you don't want to call attention to weaknesses but if it's going to come up at some point (since they're asking for it), is there any harm to doing so?

Probably not great no matter how you try it - not a bad idea to try a cover note but you should assume you are going to have some difficulty with a firm requiring that...

[itbdvorm]

How much do 2l grades really matter? I'm not asking if its ok to fail, but going from an A- average to a B...is that going to get you no offered?

On its own, probably not...but mixed with bad work product / social issues, maybe. Depends on firm/school/etc.

[Anonymous User]

For a 1L or 2L applying to a firm that requires an undergraduate transcript/GPA, if their UG GPA was abysmal (like <3.0), would it be in their best interest to email a hiring partner with a concise message about it? Something with a message like "Hey I know my UG GPA was really bad, but I've changed and please look at my law school performance/activity instead." (worded a lot more cleanly of course)

I get the idea that you don't want to call attention to weaknesses but if it's going to come up at some point (since they're asking for it), is there any harm to doing so?

Probably not great no matter how you try it - not a bad idea to try a cover note but you should assume you are going to have some difficulty with a firm requiring that...

Got it; is there any other way/better way of tackling this?

[itbdvorm]

Does your firm hire laterals? How much do grades matter for lateral hiring? can you speak to in-house?

We do (so I guess spoiler, I'm not at Cravath). Grades do matter (we still have standards) but criteria not as stringent as to get hired initially. Performance at firm and rationale for lateralling much more important

In-house probably has a similar analysis