2020 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[lawanon9]

Cadwalader not paying special bonus.

I do not get Cadwalader. Apparently they've got some name prestige among clients but everything I've heard about them from TLS, re: their NYC office (Charlotte not so much) is that it's a toxic shithole that apparently also underpays their associates. Not sure why it has such catchet among people.

I understand how they can get away with underpaying their cap market drones, but they just poached all of those Boies Schiller partners. How can they get enough qualified lit associates? I can't imagine the Boies Schiller people will be happy with a bunch of NYLS associates messing up their work all the time.

[Anonymous User]

Cadwalader not paying special bonus.

I do not get Cadwalader. Apparently they've got some name prestige among clients but everything I've heard about them from TLS, re: their NYC office (Charlotte not so much) is that it's a toxic shithole that apparently also underpays their associates. Not sure why it has such catchet among people.

CWT associate. Can confirm it’s a toxic shithole. Can confirm in lateral interviews there’s a stigma because everyone knows it’s a toxic shithole and is suspicious of CWT laterals because they’re coming from a toxic shithole.

To people doing virtual OCI, consider why a firm with top 30 PPP cannot match compensation paid by most other top law firms. Realize that if you’re going to CWT, you’re going to a firm that has a well known tradition of fucking over associates, from firing almost junior associates in 2008 to the most aggressive pay cut in 2020. No one in CWT was surprised the firm didn’t do special bonuses. It’s gone on for so long, it’s expected practice for CWT.

We just hired three big name partners so don’t tell me there isn’t money. I’m trying to leave ASAP, and most of the associates in my group are as well.

[parkslope]

What a strange system we have agreed to, where about a quarter of our annual compensation comes from a single check at the end of the year that's entirely left to the discretion of ownership.

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Cravath partners all agreed secretly at some lunch meeting to dissolve their firm and then announced in December zero bonuses for everyone, just before the partners sold the desks, broke the lease, and cashed out before taking their clients to other firms. There would be no recourse at all for associates.

In finance the "bonus" part of compensation is even higher than in biglaw, often 80% or more of total compensation for more senior people. The strangest part of our system is that four or five New York firms set the salaries and bonuses for dozens of other firms spread out across the country.

The second-strangest part is that compensation is not related to billable hours despite that being how firms make money. The associate billing 2500 and the associate billing 1800 make the same amount of money. This is not the case in any other industry.

If you pay associates different amounts for their bonuses based on production, this leads to a conversation about doing the same for partners. Industry is leading away from lockstep compensation but there are still many advocates for lockstep compensation and the alleged benefits it brings.

The number of firms still paying rigid lockstep compensation can be counted on one hand. I get that there are benefits to not having associates compete for hours, etc., but it is strange that the industry generally doesn't reward better performance, either in terms of more hours (more revenue) or better work, with more money.

[parkslope]

Cadwalader not paying special bonus.

I do not get Cadwalader. Apparently they've got some name prestige among clients but everything I've heard about them from TLS, re: their NYC office (Charlotte not so much) is that it's a toxic shithole that apparently also underpays their associates. Not sure why it has such catchet among people.

CWT associate. Can confirm it’s a toxic shithole. Can confirm in lateral interviews there’s a stigma because everyone knows it’s a toxic shithole and is suspicious of CWT laterals because they’re coming from a toxic shithole.

To people doing virtual OCI, consider why a firm with top 30 PPP cannot match compensation paid by most other top law firms. Realize that if you’re going to CWT, you’re going to a firm that has a well known tradition of fucking over associates, from firing almost junior associates in 2008 to the most aggressive pay cut in 2020. No one in CWT was surprised the firm didn’t do special bonuses. It’s gone on for so long, it’s expected practice for CWT.

We just hired three big name partners so don’t tell me there isn’t money. I’m trying to leave ASAP, and most of the associates in my group are as well.

It's odd that CWT didn't match the 'market' bonus when just last year, CWT not only matched the 'market' but paid extra for 2200, which most firms don't do.

[Definitely Not North]

Any chance someone is willing to throw up an editable google doc or something with the top 100 firms in Vault or PPP order that we can edit? Really hard to see which tiers of firms are trying to get out of paying special bonus by looking at ATL's chronological chart

[Definitely Not North]

I'd do it but they block google docs on my work comp

[Elston Gunn]

The number of firms still paying rigid lockstep compensation can be counted on one hand. I get that there are benefits to not having associates compete for hours, etc., but it is strange that the industry generally doesn't reward better performance, either in terms of more hours (more revenue) or better work, with more money.

I don’t think it’s strange at all. Most people in most white collar jobs just get a salary and the theoretical reward for good work is promotion. That’s just how things are normally done, for a lot of reasons (not least that people really value predictability in their income streams, and don’t like the stress of competing). That there are a few industries that have more performance-based compensation and hire people with similarish credentials to biglaw doesn’t change that.

[parkslope]

The number of firms still paying rigid lockstep compensation can be counted on one hand. I get that there are benefits to not having associates compete for hours, etc., but it is strange that the industry generally doesn't reward better performance, either in terms of more hours (more revenue) or better work, with more money.

I don’t think it’s strange at all. Most people in most white collar jobs just get a salary and the theoretical reward for good work is promotion. That’s just how things are normally done, for a lot of reasons (not least that people really value predictability in their income streams, and don’t like the stress of competing). That there are a few industries that have more performance-based compensation and hire people with similarish credentials to biglaw doesn’t change that.

I think in most white-collar fields, employees receive an end-of-the-year bonus that isn't the exact same for everyone. Certainly top performers in banking, consulting, Big Four accounting get a bigger bonus than everyone else. Even in general Fortune 500-type companies, bonuses are not set in stone.

[Elston Gunn]

The number of firms still paying rigid lockstep compensation can be counted on one hand. I get that there are benefits to not having associates compete for hours, etc., but it is strange that the industry generally doesn't reward better performance, either in terms of more hours (more revenue) or better work, with more money.

I don’t think it’s strange at all. Most people in most white collar jobs just get a salary and the theoretical reward for good work is promotion. That’s just how things are normally done, for a lot of reasons (not least that people really value predictability in their income streams, and don’t like the stress of competing). That there are a few industries that have more performance-based compensation and hire people with similarish credentials to biglaw doesn’t change that.

I think in most white-collar fields, employees receive an end-of-the-year bonus that isn't the exact same for everyone. Certainly top performers in banking, consulting, Big Four accounting get a bigger bonus than everyone else. Even in general Fortune 500-type companies, bonuses are not set in stone.

Banking, consulting, and Big Four are a pretty small percentage of white collar jobs—those are the industries I’m referring to. I’ll admit Biglaw is fairly similar to those jobs in some ways, but it’s also easy to imagine that lawyers are on the whole more risk averse than, eg, bankers.

And obviously it’s hard to talk about so many different companies’ practices at once, but IME F500 bonuses are much more dependent on company performance, rather than huge differences based on individual performance.

Even in Biglaw, probably most firms do give more money to “top performers,” either through official extra bonuses for high billers or discretionary bonuses. Most firms also give no or lower bonus to low billers. It’s just a group of the V10-20 that seems to do true lockstep.

[Anonymous User]

Any chance someone is willing to throw up an editable google doc or something with the top 100 firms in Vault or PPP order that we can edit? Really hard to see which tiers of firms are trying to get out of paying special bonus by looking at ATL's chronological chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Made this

[Definitely Not North]

Any chance someone is willing to throw up an editable google doc or something with the top 100 firms in Vault or PPP order that we can edit? Really hard to see which tiers of firms are trying to get out of paying special bonus by looking at ATL's chronological chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Made this

Awesome thank you so much. This will be way better/more useful than ATLs thing

[Anonymous User]

This is pretty updated now. Anybody have any they can add?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[Definitely Not North]

I'm surprised Latham and Gibson haven't announced? I thought Latham did special bonuses earlier in the year. Did they not announce regular bonuses?

[Anonymous User]

I’m guessing everyone saw the ATL article about the bad optics of CWT announcing their (lack of) bonuses in the middle of a pandemic?

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/01/cadwalader-bonus-2020/

Well CWT’s managing partner just sent out an email condemning the events in DC where he claimed that he/the partners weren’t “really aware of the gravity of the situation” until later (after their poorly timed email) because he was/they were “in the midst of a number of Firm matters.”

What an absolute joke.

[lawanon9]

CWT trued up the COVID pay cuts for those billing 1400+ and offered 20% higher bonuses for high billers, so at least they're on par with shitty firms like A&P and probably a bit above non-market paying firms like the comically overrated and yet to announce bonuses Jones Day rather than the definitive worst firm in the Vault 100.

[Chrstgtr]

CWT trued up the COVID pay cuts for those billing 1400+ and offered 20% higher bonuses for high billers, so at least they're on par with shitty firms like A&P and probably a bit above non-market paying firms like the comically overrated and yet to announce bonuses Jones Day rather than the definitive worst firm in the Vault 100.

Jones Day doesn't pay bonuses. Associates get a blackbox (as in white men get paid more) salary every year. JD doesn't have an excuse on special bonuses, though

[Anonymous User]

Gibson paid special bonuses + standard EOY bonuses on the DPW scale, they just don’t do formal bonus announcements. Communicated individually to associates in their reviews.

[Anonymous User]

Gibson didn’t pay special bonuses to everyone. I only got 50% of the special bonus for my level. I think there was an hours cutoff, but we’ll never know since they insist on being opaque. I was surprised not to get the full bonus; my hours weren’t that low and it seems like NY market is to pay out the special bonus regardless of hours, and GDC has been good about meeting the market in the past.

[Anonymous User]

I'm surprised Latham and Gibson haven't announced? I thought Latham did special bonuses earlier in the year. Did they not announce regular bonuses?

Latham does personalized bonuses and the formula hasn’t been set yet to my knowledge. They told us recently they were aiming to announce in late January then they get paid out at the end of the month.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know about bonuses at MoFo? Considering a lateral move there, but I don't think I've seen any reporting about their 2020 bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know about bonuses at MoFo? Considering a lateral move there, but I don't think I've seen any reporting about their 2020 bonuses.

you must be psychic. they just announced this morning. regular bonuses paid as usual (hrs requirement is 1950) and covid bonuses on dpw scale paid to all assoc (regardless of hrs)

something to be aware of is that mofo consistently pays bonuses with the feb 15 check (or thereabouts) which is a bit later than its peers

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know about bonuses at MoFo? Considering a lateral move there, but I don't think I've seen any reporting about their 2020 bonuses.

you must be psychic. they just announced this morning. regular bonuses paid as usual (hrs requirement is 1950) and covid bonuses on dpw scale paid to all assoc (regardless of hrs)

something to be aware of is that mofo consistently pays bonuses with the feb 15 check (or thereabouts) which is a bit later than its peers

MoFo bonus memo: https://abovethelaw.com/2021/01/mofo-bonuses-2020/

Does MoFo have enough people billing 2900+ that it warrants inclusion on the bonus memo? Also, anyone billing 150% of the billable target should probably get a 50% total comp bonus, but that's just me

[Anonymous User]

[duplicate post]

[Anonymous User]

[Duplicate Post]

[Anonymous User]

Got our reviews at DLA, which traditionally also includes our bonus info. Said they haven't yet decided yet essentially and will follow up with us all.

In light of this MoFo news, if DLA doesn't pay or try to pull some cutesie bullshit by making the COVID bonuses contingent on some extra conditions (e.g., 2100 hrs, rating of 4/5 despite being told that 3/5 was EXCEPTIONAL and having partners who didn't know the implications of putting a 3 instead of a 4) then I will be so fucking demoralized by all of it.