Tracking COVID-19's effect on V100 associate pay/layoffs Forum

[Anonymous User]

V10 corporate associate, just got news of my stealthing today. I can't say it was unexpected, work has been extremely slow since covid hit.

Did they try to disguise it as poor performance?

Yes, but that didn't bother me honestly. The two partners didn't go into any real detail on it, and looked embarassed about the whole thing (zoom call). Everyone knows the covid elephant in the room, and that the group has been on life support for a few months now. I know of at least one other in my group who got the same talk, but I suspect there are several more. They were actually quite nice about it all things considered, and I understand their position. Luckily I've got enough tucked away to be fine for a while, plus three months severance.

I'm very sorry to hear that. Do you mind letting us know what year level these associates who were told are at? (junior/midl/senior)

Funemployed corporate associate here. I now know of two others, in addition to myself. Juniors and midlevels.

I know you said that work has been slow but did partners give any indication that this was coming? Like during town halls or anything?

[SLS_AMG]

V10 corporate associate, just got news of my stealthing today. I can't say it was unexpected, work has been extremely slow since covid hit.

Sorry to hear. What were your hours like, and how long had they been like that?

Funemployed corporate associate here. I now know of two others, in addition to myself. Juniors and midlevels.

I'm actually fairly surprised to hear you are in corporate. I think perhaps some V10s may have overly large litigation groups, so I sort of expected you to say you were a litigator. A super slow corporate group at a V10--unless it's M&A--is surprising to me.

[Anonymous User]

[*]Linklaters (V46) - 50% of bonus deferred; salary reviews deferred by six months

This actually doesn't apply to US associates...yet.

[Anonymous User]

First year at an AmLaw200, furloughed since April, I'm not the only one but the firm hasn't let the information out that it happened. Wasn't unexpected as hours were low and expected to ramp up mid to late this year as I plugged in with more partners in my group and took on more litigation. That obviously didn't happen.

Anticipating a furlough->layoff and this is a way to avoid severance.

[Anonymous User]

First year at an AmLaw200, furloughed since April, I'm not the only one but the firm hasn't let the information out that it happened. Wasn't unexpected as hours were low and expected to ramp up mid to late this year as I plugged in with more partners in my group and took on more litigation. That obviously didn't happen.

Anticipating a furlough->layoff and this is a way to avoid severance.

Sorry to hear. If you don't mind me asking, is it a V100 firm? Size of the firm? Location?

[objctnyrhnr]

on stealth layoffs, i know firsthand that this is happening allready including at firms that announced they wont be cutting salaries, furlowing etc, but am/was at a non-vault 100 (amlaw 200).

heard secondhand about morisson and forestor doing this in the past month.

any1 else?

How can you have firsthand information about multiple firms?

confirm some mofo stealthing

Any additional details: number of people, groups, class year, severance package, circumstances, offices?

Basis of your knowledge to extent you can say without outing yourself?

[Anonymous User]

on stealth layoffs, i know firsthand that this is happening allready including at firms that announced they wont be cutting salaries, furlowing etc, but am/was at a non-vault 100 (amlaw 200).

heard secondhand about morisson and forestor doing this in the past month.

any1 else?

How can you have firsthand information about multiple firms?

confirm some mofo stealthing

Any additional details: number of people, groups, class year, severance package, circumstances, offices?

Basis of your knowledge to extent you can say without outing yourself?

not the same anon, but i've heard of mofo layoffs as well - i've heard the affected associates are (mostly?) corporate, juniors and mid-levels. they are offering severance but believe it's conditioned on an nda.

[Anonymous User]

on stealth layoffs, i know firsthand that this is happening allready including at firms that announced they wont be cutting salaries, furlowing etc, but am/was at a non-vault 100 (amlaw 200).

heard secondhand about morisson and forestor doing this in the past month.

any1 else?

How can you have firsthand information about multiple firms?

confirm some mofo stealthing

Any additional details: number of people, groups, class year, severance package, circumstances, offices?

Basis of your knowledge to extent you can say without outing yourself?

not the same anon, but i've heard of mofo layoffs as well - i've heard the affected associates are (mostly?) corporate, juniors and mid-levels. they are offering severance but believe it's conditioned on an nda.

How much severance?

[Anonymous User]

Heard a rumor today that Honigman let some associates go.

true

[Anonymous User]

Can also confirm Cleary stealthed some associates and dipped into the class of 2016/2017.

[Anonymous User]

Can also confirm Cleary stealthed some associates and dipped into the class of 2016/2017.

Would love to hear some more info on this if you have any. Corporate or litigators? Just juniors or also midlevels / seniors? Any idea on how much severance they got if any? Thanks!!

[Anonymous User]

Can also confirm Cleary stealthed some associates and dipped into the class of 2016/2017.

Would love to hear some more info on this if you have any. Corporate or litigators? Just juniors or also midlevels / seniors? Any idea on how much severance they got if any? Thanks!!

Do people know what severance entails in the big law context? If a big law associate gets “the talk”, is given a few months to find a job, but is working as normal during that time, would those few months be considered severance? That seems much less desirable than not being expected to work normal hours and job hunting full time.

[nealric]

Can also confirm Cleary stealthed some associates and dipped into the class of 2016/2017.

Would love to hear some more info on this if you have any. Corporate or litigators? Just juniors or also midlevels / seniors? Any idea on how much severance they got if any? Thanks!!

Do people know what severance entails in the big law context? If a big law associate gets “the talk”, is given a few months to find a job, but is working as normal during that time, would those few months be considered severance? That seems much less desirable than not being expected to work normal hours and job hunting full time.

Pretty rare that someone who's been given their walking papers to be expected to work much at all. In my experience, they just wrap up whatever they were working on to a sufficient degree to avoid burning bridges. After that, they may not come into the office much if at all. There's plenty of time to job hunt.

The main benefit of being given time to find a job rather than being walked out the door immediately is that you can honestly represent to potential employers that you are still employed at the firm. You may be able to avoid your new employer having any idea that you are job hunting under duress.

[hdr]

Can also confirm Cleary stealthed some associates and dipped into the class of 2016/2017.

Would love to hear some more info on this if you have any. Corporate or litigators? Just juniors or also midlevels / seniors? Any idea on how much severance they got if any? Thanks!!

Do people know what severance entails in the big law context? If a big law associate gets “the talk”, is given a few months to find a job, but is working as normal during that time, would those few months be considered severance? That seems much less desirable than not being expected to work normal hours and job hunting full time.

If you're given the talk you probably weren't working normal hours to begin with and probably won't be working normal hours going forward. Firms have different ways of handling this, but pre-COVID you were typically given the talk at your annual or midyear evaluation and you would probably have until the next review before being terminated or given a hard end date, without much expectations in terms of hours. So six months to job hunt while appearing employed and getting paid with minimal work obligations.

Severance is usually three-months pay and potentially more website time. Pre-COVID firms would generally not fire associates except for very low hours, but that's changed.

[ghostoftraynor]

Severance is usually three-months pay and potentially more website time. Pre-COVID firms would generally not fire associates except for very low hours, but that's changed.

I think this is very firm/group dependent. It's just not true in a lot of places you can basically coast indefinitely. The culling starts as soon as second year in my experience (first years can and do get fired for major performance issues, but I'm not talking about that).

[nealric]

Severance is usually three-months pay and potentially more website time. Pre-COVID firms would generally not fire associates except for very low hours, but that's changed.

I think this is very firm/group dependent. It's just not true in a lot of places you can basically coast indefinitely. The culling starts as soon as second year in my experience (first years can and do get fired for major performance issues, but I'm not talking about that).

The ultra soft counseling out where you are given as much time as you need still exists, but it's mostly a relic of the times when it was considered unseemly for a law firm to fire a lawyer. Often, the idea you'd be happier elsewhere is couched as a gentle suggestion. Ever since the 2008 recession (and to a lesser degree even before that), biglaw has started to dispense with the old genteel notion and started to behave more like corporate America generally. The closest thing to "market" is being formally told you will be terminated, but given 3 months to find something- extra time on the website without pay can sometimes be negotiated. But these days, zero severance or time is not unheard of.

In corporate America, being walked out the door immediately and without warning is pretty standard practice.

[Anonymous User]

Clifford Chance (V41) cuts global bonus pool by somewhere less than 20%:

https://www.law360.com/articles/1283336 ... 5a75bd3678

[Anonymous User]

Severance is usually three-months pay and potentially more website time. Pre-COVID firms would generally not fire associates except for very low hours, but that's changed.

I think this is very firm/group dependent. It's just not true in a lot of places you can basically coast indefinitely. The culling starts as soon as second year in my experience (first years can and do get fired for major performance issues, but I'm not talking about that).

The ultra soft counseling out where you are given as much time as you need still exists, but it's mostly a relic of the times when it was considered unseemly for a law firm to fire a lawyer. Often, the idea you'd be happier elsewhere is couched as a gentle suggestion. Ever since the 2008 recession (and to a lesser degree even before that), biglaw has started to dispense with the old genteel notion and started to behave more like corporate America generally. The closest thing to "market" is being formally told you will be terminated, but given 3 months to find something- extra time on the website without pay can sometimes be negotiated. But these days, zero severance or time is not unheard of.

In corporate America, being walked out the door immediately and without warning is pretty standard practice.

Regarding this soft counseling out approach, is there an "official" deadline that you can later negotiate post-hoc if you are unable to find a job within that time frame?

[nealric]

Severance is usually three-months pay and potentially more website time. Pre-COVID firms would generally not fire associates except for very low hours, but that's changed.

I think this is very firm/group dependent. It's just not true in a lot of places you can basically coast indefinitely. The culling starts as soon as second year in my experience (first years can and do get fired for major performance issues, but I'm not talking about that).

The ultra soft counseling out where you are given as much time as you need still exists, but it's mostly a relic of the times when it was considered unseemly for a law firm to fire a lawyer. Often, the idea you'd be happier elsewhere is couched as a gentle suggestion. Ever since the 2008 recession (and to a lesser degree even before that), biglaw has started to dispense with the old genteel notion and started to behave more like corporate America generally. The closest thing to "market" is being formally told you will be terminated, but given 3 months to find something- extra time on the website without pay can sometimes be negotiated. But these days, zero severance or time is not unheard of.

In corporate America, being walked out the door immediately and without warning is pretty standard practice.

Regarding this soft counseling out approach, is there an "official" deadline that you can later negotiate post-hoc if you are unable to find a job within that time frame?

Under the old school approach there was no deadline. Partners might even make some calls to get you set up with a client. A few firms still do things this way.

[krikkk1700]

Has anyone checked "thelayoff.com"? I am shocked to see what it says about Kirkland.

[Sackboy]

Has anyone checked "thelayoff.com"? I am shocked to see what it says about Kirkland.

I'm not going to lie. At first, I thought you were a spam account advertising for the layoff.com, because it gives off such a early 2000s website vibe. But, I did eventually find the thread you were referencing. It has 29 posts with the most recent being 2 days ago about the firm re: George Floyd, and the next most recent is 15 days ago.

I was honestly kind of surprised by the lack of news; it just seemed like an orgy for disgruntled former employees without any real evidence of stealthing. People mostly said things like "fuck Kirkland" and the firm is shameful and that it's awful to work at. If Kirkland is stealthing people, it must be doing so very gradually over several months... Though, some might just call those regular dismissals...

Also, feel like you didn't need to anon to make your comment.

[cavalier1138]

Has anyone checked "thelayoff.com"? I am shocked to see what it says about Kirkland.

I'm not going to lie. At first, I thought you were a spam account advertising for the layoff.com, because it gives off such a early 2000s website vibe.

Sackboy went to thelayoff.com thinking it was a clickbaity scam. What happens next will amaze you!

[Sporty1911]

Does anyone know if any firms have pulled back their salary cuts? Also, will it be publicized when firms end salary cuts?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if any firms have pulled back their salary cuts? Also, will it be publicized when firms end salary cuts?

Last week, my firm informed us that the salary cuts would remain in effect through the end of August at the very minimum. Almost everyone here expects them to continue at least through the end of the calendar year.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if any firms have pulled back their salary cuts? Also, will it be publicized when firms end salary cuts?

I'm not aware of that. I know of one firm that announced that associates who bill an average of 140 hours/month over the next few months will get the salary difference in backpay.