NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

And let’s stop pretending clients pay these absurd rates for associates because they think the quality of associate work is better at a Cravath over a Wilmer. The clients want the best partners and they’re willing to pay whatever to work with that partner. Stop tooting your horns.

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

[Anonymous User]

Just some speculation: Partners probably meet quarterly, and Q2 ends June 30. So perhaps more firms haven't announced because salaries are the type of matter only discussed at those meetings, and the meeting isn't for ~25 days.

If IIRC, the last salary increase was closer to July 1, and probably closer to when end-of-Q2 meetings occurred, which explains why the firms were more responsive then.

[smokeylarue]

And let’s stop pretending clients pay these absurd rates for associates because they think the quality of associate work is better at a Cravath over a Wilmer. The clients want the best partners and they’re willing to pay whatever to work with that partner. Stop tooting your horns.

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

Can't tell if this guy is for real or long-con flame

[Anonymous User]

Are we really going to be talking about the Milbank Scale for the next fivetwo years? I doubt it.

FTFY

We are going to be talking about the Milbank theory for decades to come. 10k every two years for COL adjustment is new market, if not 15k or 20k.

Yes, please.

Let's also please foster the idea that Milbank may leapfrog any leapfroggers. After all, whether or not you care about prestige, I think Milbank's goal here is to signal to prestige-seeking law school students that it should be considered a peer of Cravath, etc. Thus, if a "prestigious" firm ups Milbank's ante and raises to $200k, Milbank may want to show the world that it will not be outdone (at least within reason) by raising salaries even higher.

[Man from Nantucket]

How many Debevoise associates do we have in this thread?

Out of that list, K&E is the one that does not belong, not Debevoise. Like DPW, CSM and CGSH, the median lawyer at Debevoise attended Columbia; the median lawyer at Kirkland attended Cornell.

Columbia! That’s practically Yale!

[Hopefullitassociate]

WHY HAVEN’T MORE FIRMS ANNOUNCED??????

Firms with only a few offices (e.g., DPW, S&C, STB, Cravath, Debevoise) can move very quickly, and certainly one of them should match or raise today. If we don't hear from any of these firms today, they are being very cautious about not getting leapfrogged.

Firms with lots of international offices and a dispersed partnership (e.g., Cleary, Latham, Skadden, Sidley, Kirkland) may take up to a week to react. That said, earlier in this thread a Kirkland associate mentioned that Kirkland had already pre-approved matches of certain firms up to $200k as of 2016...

Are we really going to be talking about the Milbank Scale for the next five years? I doubt it.

FWIW K&E also took 3-4 days to announce the match in 2016, so I wouldn’t read much into that. I do think the leapfrogging concern is real though, so I suspect it’ll take a bit for all of the top firms to get on board. I’m optimistic for that reason - if firms are expecting one of their peers to go to 200k and they know they’re going to match it, why not be the one to go first and get your name in lights like MILBANK.

Because it pisses off clients.

It’s a fair concern, but I don’t buy it for V10 clients. If you’re willing to pay Cravath rates you probably want them recruiting the best associates.

TBF, I still doubt that law students holding CSM offers are going to turn them down against other firms even if they stay at 180k.

You must have graduated without debt. What a life.

Doesn't Cahill pay above market bonuses and market salary (correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they were a firm known for this)? But even though Cahill associates get paid more, people still choose Cravath/DPW/Skadden etc. over Cahill, even though they'll make less.

Choosing "prestige" isn't necessarily a bad decision; if you believe that it really does open up doors or exit options that a lower-ranked firm won't, the earnings over the course of your career can very well exceed whatever you miss out on in your handful of years in biglaw.

[Pizzaburger]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I cannot wait to give Milbank a 10/10 on next year’s associate Vault survey. Everyone else is getting a random spattering 2s and 3s.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when CovingTTTon will raise?

[Anonymous User]

Just some speculation: Partners probably meet quarterly, and Q2 ends June 30. So perhaps more firms haven't announced because salaries are the type of matter only discussed at those meetings, and the meeting isn't for ~25 days.

If IIRC, the last salary increase was closer to July 1, and probably closer to when end-of-Q2 meetings occurred, which explains why the firms were more responsive then.

The last salary increase was almost exactly two years ago, on June 6, 2016.
Firms were not materially more responsive then; only five firms (one of which was Milbank) matched on day two.

Now that Proskauer and Winston have matched, there's no real chance the big ones won't match or beat. There would be a mutiny. It's a matter of time.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when CovingTTTon will raise?

Covington to 145.

[Anonymous User]

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

But THIS COMES AT A COST. These top-tier firm associates are super-stressed out worrying about every little thing. They worry more than partners at lower firms and, indeed, some of these associates bill more revenue than some partners at lower firms. That's why they should be paid more than associates at lower firms.

[PMan99]

Doesn't Cahill pay above market bonuses and market salary (correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they were a firm known for this)? But even though Cahill associates get paid more, people still choose Cravath/DPW/Skadden etc. over Cahill, even though they'll make less.

Choosing "prestige" isn't necessarily a bad decision; if you believe that it really does open up doors or exit options that a lower-ranked firm won't, the earnings over the course of your career can very well exceed whatever you miss out on in your handful of years in biglaw.

Bonuses aren’t going to move the needle like base comp does. Too risky, both from a “will I make my hours?” perspective and a “will the firm stop doing this?” one. At least when you’re talking about Cahill or Irell sizes bonuses vs Wachtell sized ones.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when CovingTTTon will raise?

Covington to 145.

Only for senior associates

[Helmholtz]

And let’s stop pretending clients pay these absurd rates for associates because they think the quality of associate work is better at a Cravath over a Wilmer. The clients want the best partners and they’re willing to pay whatever to work with that partner. Stop tooting your horns.

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

Can't tell if this guy is for real or long-con flame

What do you mean. All of my clients insist that their deal teams be staffed so that the median associate graduated from a law school at least #5 on the current year's USNews rankings. They know associates are the lifeblood of firms and they don't want to farm out work to firms that are going to staff deals with a bunch of UPenn grads.

[Anonymous User]

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

But THIS COMES AT A COST. These top-tier firm associates are super-stressed out worrying about every little thing. They worry more than partners at lower firms and, indeed, some of these associates bill more revenue than some partners at lower firms. That's why they should be paid more than associates at lower firms.

Instead they get paid marketedly less (40k) than some v100 firms. The market has spoken. Hope you can burn your V2 diploma for warmth

[Anonymous User]

Rumor, but: friend who has a family friend who is a Milbank partner says they budgeted to go up to 215 if firms try to one up them. Hoping this is true...

[kiddie114]

And let’s stop pretending clients pay these absurd rates for associates because they think the quality of associate work is better at a Cravath over a Wilmer. The clients want the best partners and they’re willing to pay whatever to work with that partner. Stop tooting your horns.

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

Can't tell if this guy is for real or long-con flame

What do you mean. All of my clients insist that their deal teams be staffed so that the median associate graduated from a law school at least #5 on the current year's USNews rankings. They know associates are the lifeblood of firms and they don't want to farm out work to firms that are going to staff deals with a bunch of UPenn grads.

is this dude mental

[Stillblade]

And let’s stop pretending clients pay these absurd rates for associates because they think the quality of associate work is better at a Cravath over a Wilmer. The clients want the best partners and they’re willing to pay whatever to work with that partner. Stop tooting your horns.

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

Can't tell if this guy is for real or long-con flame

What do you mean. All of my clients insist that their deal teams be staffed so that the median associate graduated from a law school at least #5 on the current year's USNews rankings. They know associates are the lifeblood of firms and they don't want to farm out work to firms that are going to staff deals with a bunch of UPenn grads.

is this dude mental

He's joking bruv

[Anonymous User]

Rumor, but: friend who has a family friend who is a Milbank partner says they budgeted to go up to 215 if firms try to one up them. Hoping this is true...

.000003% chance that a partner at Milbank told a friend who told a family member who told this guy about the finances of the firm.

[Anonymous User]

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

But THIS COMES AT A COST. These top-tier firm associates are super-stressed out worrying about every little thing. They worry more than partners at lower firms and, indeed, some of these associates bill more revenue than some partners at lower firms. That's why they should be paid more than associates at lower firms.

There is a scramble to enter the most elite law schools. And then there is a vicious, Hunger Games-like atmosphere at those elite law schools to take home the best grades in 1L. The ones who are actually able to do it end up at the above-mentioned law firms. The ones who are less adept at it end up at the firms right below. People who have "succeeded" in this system are generally neurotic and probably suffering from something in the DSM-5, but they're also damn good lawyers because everything that have had to do to end up there selects for those skills. They deserve to get paid more for living the life that they do.

[Anonymous User]

Rumor, but: friend who has a family friend who is a Milbank partner says they budgeted to go up to 215 if firms try to one up them. Hoping this is true...

.000003% chance that a partner at Milbank told a friend who told a family member who told this guy about the finances of the firm.

But wasn't there also about a .000003% chance that Milbank would raise associate salaries?

Milbank to $215k confirmed.

[Anonymous User]

MILBANK to $1MIL makin BANK

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't Cahill pay above market bonuses and market salary (correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they were a firm known for this)? But even though Cahill associates get paid more, people still choose Cravath/DPW/Skadden etc. over Cahill, even though they'll make less.

Choosing "prestige" isn't necessarily a bad decision; if you believe that it really does open up doors or exit options that a lower-ranked firm won't, the earnings over the course of your career can very well exceed whatever you miss out on in your handful of years in biglaw.

I believe Cahill doesn't necessarily pay more. The bonus is more variable there. I don't work at Cahill. So I may be wrong.
It's a firm that's only really strong in certain areas though. That's a big factor. Milbank is more balanced.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

That's precisely why clients pay higher rates - ever check Chambers USA for Cravath + peers?

Cravath: "They're probably my favorite firm in the city. The younger partners involved were terrific, and even the associates were among the best lawyers I have ever worked with."

DPW: The team is "really rich with talent," according to one commentator, who also highlights their "outstanding senior and junior associates."

S&C: "They have a good breadth of knowledge, and the partners and senior associates are very responsive," says a client.

But THIS COMES AT A COST. These top-tier firm associates are super-stressed out worrying about every little thing. They worry more than partners at lower firms and, indeed, some of these associates bill more revenue than some partners at lower firms. That's why they should be paid more than associates at lower firms.

There is a scramble to enter the most elite law schools. And then there is a vicious, Hunger Games-like atmosphere at those elite law schools to take home the best grades in 1L. The ones who are actually able to do it end up at the above-mentioned law firms. The ones who are less adept at it end up at the firms right below. People who have "succeeded" in this system are generally neurotic and probably suffering from something in the DSM-5, but they're also damn good lawyers because everything that have had to do to end up there selects for those skills. They deserve to get paid more for living the life that they do.

lol dude you are delusional, please seek help

there are tons of fantastic trial attorneys who went to TTT law schools, but are effective because they are good at communicating and can put together coherent arguments

there are tons of fantastic prosecutors who also went to TTT law schools but are also fantastic attorneys

this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what people "deserve" and everything to do with market conditions, wake the fuck up

[Anonymous User]

Rumor, but: friend who has a family friend who is a Milbank partner says they budgeted to go up to 215 if firms try to one up them. Hoping this is true...

.000003% chance that a partner at Milbank told a friend who told a family member who told this guy about the finances of the firm.

But wasn't there also about a .000003% chance that Milbank would raise associate salaries?

Milbank to $215k confirmed.

Best point in this thread thus far.