3L OCI Forum

[Anonymous User]

do either DPW or Skadden send dings out post CB? i'm not sure what their protocol is. i've contacted recruiting at both firms to let them know i have a deadline coming up, but have heard zilch so far.

DPW does. Idk about Skadden.

[Anonymous User]

^^ to anon above, sorry to rehash bad hiring memories, but how long after CB did you hear? email/letter? sorry again!

[Anonymous User]

^^ to anon above, sorry to rehash bad hiring memories, but how long after CB did you hear? email/letter? sorry again!

No worries. Email after a week.

[Anonymous User]

If you are a 2L SA at a lower ranked firm, what do you say when you go on 3L OCI DPW/Skadden, when they ask you why you want to switch firm?

[Anonymous User]

Not from experience, but I would focus on practice are, to say something in the vein of "I really liked the firm I summer at, and gained a keen interest in X practice area, a practice are which your firm is known as the leader of throughout the industry. While I liked everybody at summer firm, I want to practice at the highest level that I can and your firm will enable me to do just that." yadda yadda. The last thing you want to do is speak negatively about where you worked previously, so flip it by speaking positively about where you hope to work.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

If you are a 2L SA at a lower ranked firm, what do you say when you go on 3L OCI DPW/Skadden, when they ask you why you want to switch firm?

Honestly, it doesn't come up as much as you would think because the answer appears fairly obvious to the partners at those top firms. Be prepared to say why DPW or why Skadden though as opposed to other top NY firms (multiple places asked me where else I was interviewing).

[Anonymous User]

If you are a 2L SA at a lower ranked firm, what do you say when you go on 3L OCI DPW/Skadden, when they ask you why you want to switch firm?

Honestly, it doesn't come up as much as you would think because the answer appears fairly obvious to the partners at those top firms. Be prepared to say why DPW or why Skadden though as opposed to other top NY firms (multiple places asked me where else I was interviewing).

Thank you. Do you know the general time frame when DPW/Skadden/KE does their 3L OCI? Is it usually after SA at other firms completed their summer rotations?

Also, in terms of practice area, is it feasible to jump from a firm that is Elite Band 4 in M&A to a Elite Band 1? Or is that too much of a jump?

[Anonymous User]

If you are a 2L SA at a lower ranked firm, what do you say when you go on 3L OCI DPW/Skadden, when they ask you why you want to switch firm?

Honestly, it doesn't come up as much as you would think because the answer appears fairly obvious to the partners at those top firms. Be prepared to say why DPW or why Skadden though as opposed to other top NY firms (multiple places asked me where else I was interviewing).

Thank you. Do you know the general time frame when DPW/Skadden/KE does their 3L OCI? Is it usually after SA at other firms completed their summer rotations?

Also, in terms of practice area, is it feasible to jump from a firm that is Elite Band 4 in M&A to a Elite Band 1? Or is that too much of a jump?

The timeline has been rehashed a bunch in this and earlier threads. I would apply in mid to late July so that you can schedule interviews for right after your SA ends. There are other opinions though. I was interviewing at some firms who still had a few SAs around.

I think that is very feasible. I wouldn't worry about the chambers bands; you won't learn anything significant as an SA. The main thing is that you had a biglaw SA with a full-time offer and they're at least aware of the firm. After that it's grades (you probably need at least top 1/3 judging from this and last year's thread) and your interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Just chiming in to add my two cents on what's been said.

I was asked in most interviews why I wanted to switch, but as someone said above, wasn't really pressed hard on it because to the interviewers it was fairly obvious (I imagine). A spiel along the lines of, "My summer firm was great, but I realized I was mainly interested in X, and your firm is great at X, etc" was sufficient.

I wouldn't worry about the Chambers band you are coming from.

In terms of timeline, I agree about mid to late July. I applied with about two weeks left in my SA, interviewed with a bunch of firms the week after my SA ended. I know some people have interviewed while their SA was going on.

Some firms weren't as quick to get back obviously.

[Anonymous User]

If you are a 2L SA at a lower ranked firm, what do you say when you go on 3L OCI DPW/Skadden, when they ask you why you want to switch firm?

Honestly, it doesn't come up as much as you would think because the answer appears fairly obvious to the partners at those top firms. Be prepared to say why DPW or why Skadden though as opposed to other top NY firms (multiple places asked me where else I was interviewing).

Thank you. Do you know the general time frame when DPW/Skadden/KE does their 3L OCI? Is it usually after SA at other firms completed their summer rotations?

Also, in terms of practice area, is it feasible to jump from a firm that is Elite Band 4 in M&A to a Elite Band 1? Or is that too much of a jump?

The timeline has been rehashed a bunch in this and earlier threads. I would apply in mid to late July so that you can schedule interviews for right after your SA ends. There are other opinions though. I was interviewing at some firms who still had a few SAs around.

I think that is very feasible. I wouldn't worry about the chambers bands; you won't learn anything significant as an SA. The main thing is that you had a biglaw SA with a full-time offer and they're at least aware of the firm. After that it's grades (you probably need at least top 1/3 judging from this and last year's thread) and your interviews.

I was under the impression that offer usually comes in after the SA ends. So if you apply in mid July, wouldn't you be without an offer at that time?

Judging from your "1/3 grade"response, I am assuming you go to a top school, I actually go to a lower ranked school that doesn't offer 3L OCI, should I direct apply through mass mailing(technically not mass since it's going to be a couple top M&A firms), or should I go to my school's 2L OCI and drop off resumes to those firms. I am not sure how this process works for someone that goes to a lower ranked school.

Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

Also, make your answer short and concise and get on to less awkward portions of the interview.

[Anonymous User]

I was under the impression that offer usually comes in after the SA ends. So if you apply in mid July, wouldn't you be without an offer at that time?

Judging from your "1/3 grade"response, I am assuming you go to a top school, I actually go to a lower ranked school that doesn't offer 3L OCI, should I direct apply through mass mailing(technically not mass since it's going to be a couple top M&A firms), or should I go to my school's 2L OCI and drop off resumes to those firms. I am not sure how this process works for someone that goes to a lower ranked school.

Thank you.

1st Anon from Above - Yes, it comes in after the SA ends. But you won't include the fact that you have an offer in your resume or cover letter. They may ask in an interview and you will tell them one of: yes, no, or I haven't heard a final decision yet but my reviews were very strong and I have no reason to worry.

3L OCI isn't really a thing at most schools, at least not a significant thing. People are typically using the term to refer to mass mailing. So yes, just email cover letter/cover email and attach your resume and transcript to recruiting (I generally used the email address for "associate applications" rather than "summer associate applications"). Don't do 2L OCI but do apply for jobs you're interested in if CSO indicates the firm is accepting 3L apps for the OCI (CSM seems to interview 3Ls through the 2L OCI).

If I were in your shoes, I would mail all of the top M&A firms in NY. I think you'll regret it if you don't. They're largely fungible so if you're shooting for one you should be willing to take the others and that improves your odds significantly. Additionally, it makes you look like a more viable candidate to any one firm if you're interviewing with others. One, other firms are interested in you so you likely are smart / have good credentials. Also, you can say reasonably why you would rather be downtown vs midtown or or tell them a funny anecdote that they can relate to (you had to go by a naked cowboy to get into skadden or whatever). For instance, Kirkland (which I personally liked) will likely get an eyebrow raise at some places but you can smile about it and say you're interviewing at all the top firms but would love to be here because of X.

[Anonymous User]

I had a screener with a firm a week ago and haven't heard back yet. I've received offers from a few other firms but this one is my top choice. The firm said they would get back to me quickly but I haven't heard anything. I'm considering emailing the recruiting contact with some minor resume updates (article selected for publication, etc.), notifying them that I have received other offers that I need to make a decision on, but letting them know that they are my top choice. Would this be advisable? Should I include anything in addition to the above info or not include something?

[Anonymous User]

Paul Hastings CB 2+ weeks ago, received offer call today. Good luck, everyone!

[Anonymous User]

Was this for NY?

[Anonymous User]

what practice group?

[Anonymous User]

mayer brown - chi seems to be interviewing. anyone other firms out there?

[Anonymous User]

Anything yet from Loeb & Loeb?

[Anonymous User]

The main thing is that you had a biglaw SA with a full-time offer and they're at least aware of the firm.

What if you can't get any sort of reputable biglaw at all (Elite or Highly Regarded or anything) because of grades? Can you do public interest/gov/midlaw that they might be opposing counsel to from time to time (so at least they've heard of it), then apply as a 3L and tell them in a cover letter/the interview that you didn't get biglaw last time around because of "a rough year academically...while I enjoyed PI/Gov/Midlaw blah blah and learned a lot there, I'd like to join [biglaw firm] now to start my career because..."

Assuming 1) the school is one that would usually get you noticed (one of Harvard, Columbia, NYU); 2) you actually do have the grades the next time around (top 1/3rd cumulatively at one of those 3).

Or should I avoid accepting/"settling for" PI/Gov/etc until I absolutely have to, so as to not shut the door on biglaw as a 3L/grad?

[Anonymous User]

Curious what you would think of as non-reputable big law?

[Anonymous User]

The main thing is that you had a biglaw SA with a full-time offer and they're at least aware of the firm.

What if you can't get any sort of reputable biglaw at all (Elite or Highly Regarded or anything) because of grades? Can you do public interest/gov/midlaw that they might be opposing counsel to from time to time (so at least they've heard of it), then apply as a 3L and tell them in a cover letter/the interview that you didn't get biglaw last time around because of "a rough year academically...while I enjoyed PI/Gov/Midlaw blah blah and learned a lot there, I'd like to join [biglaw firm] now to start my career because..."

Assuming 1) the school is one that would usually get you noticed (one of Harvard, Columbia, NYU); 2) you actually do have the grades the next time around (top 1/3rd cumulatively at one of those 3).

Or should I avoid accepting/"settling for" PI/Gov/etc until I absolutely have to, so as to not shut the door on biglaw as a 3L/grad?

I think you could frame your summer experience more positively. The "rough year academically" language is a non-starter to me, e.g., but granted, I'm not at any of YSHCCN. So the standard may be different for firms regarding students from the schools.

[Anonymous User]

By that I just mean "my 1L grades weren't good enough for [biglaw firm] because....[That's the main reason I went to [2L summer employment, could be PI/Gov/who knows]. The situation improved my 2L year, and my 2L transcript reflects that (hopefully)" Then we move onto the less awkward parts of the interview. There's really no way to get around the grades issue.

My only question now is whether accepting certain types of employment (PI/Gov/midlaw/etc) could shut the door on 3L/grad biglaw. Do I -have- to do V-reputable biglaw as a 2L? Because if so, I should hold off on accepting any PI/etc gigs until it's totally clear that the alternative is no job at all as a 2L.

[Kratos]

By that I just mean "my 1L grades weren't good enough for [biglaw firm] because....[That's the main reason I went to [2L summer employment, could be PI/Gov/who knows]. The situation improved my 2L year, and my 2L transcript reflects that (hopefully)" Then we move onto the less awkward parts of the interview. There's really no way to get around the grades issue.

My only question now is whether accepting certain types of employment (PI/Gov/midlaw/etc) could shut the door on 3L/grad biglaw. Do I -have- to do V-reputable biglaw as a 2L? Because if so, I should hold off on accepting any PI/etc gigs until it's totally clear that the alternative is no job at all as a 2L.

first off, this thread isn't really for you, it's for 3Ls going through the process.

but whatever, I don't know the answer to your question, and I doubt anyone can say they do definitively either. but it's hard to get a 3L biglaw job regardless, as this thread shows. if that's your goal you should be hustling like mad right now to try and get an SA at a big firm.

[Anonymous User]

for those with offers from summer firms and waiting to hear back from CBs still, what is your strategy?