Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Missed out on a few secondary market firms I really want. But I am still at 15+ interviews. Does this mean that I cannot add any during add/drop? Someone posted above that you can only add interviews up to 12. Is this true?

[Anonymous User]

I know sometimes it's annoying when people just post "just read the OCI guide" but seriously, all of these questions you guys are asking about add/drop are explained at length in the OCI guide. There are no secrets being kept from us about this

[Anonymous User]

I know sometimes it's annoying when people just post "just read the OCI guide" but seriously, all of these questions you guys are asking about add/drop are explained at length in the OCI guide. There are no secrets being kept from us about this

Didn't know Kim LeClair was on here.

[Druid]

Don't drop interviews.

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking about rejecting a secondary journal. I have less than no interest in it. Should I accept and fake that I'm excited about it at OCI, or reject and be honest, and if asked why no journal say I decided to spend my time doing xyz, about which I am actually passionate, and i believe will help me be a better lawyer. I am thinking the latter would make for a better interview. But maybe I'm crazy.

[Anonymous User]

reject and be honest, and if asked why no journal say I decided to spend my time doing xyz, about which I am actually passionate, and i believe will help me be a better lawyer. I am thinking the latter would make for a better interview. But maybe I'm crazy.

FWIW, this is what I'm doing.

[potted plant]

reject and be honest, and if asked why no journal say I decided to spend my time doing xyz, about which I am actually passionate, and i believe will help me be a better lawyer. I am thinking the latter would make for a better interview. But maybe I'm crazy.

FWIW, this is what I'm doing.

I think this is fine. There are so many journals at this point, that simply being on some journal doesn't really signal much except that you're willing to jump through law school hoops. I'd just be careful not to sound negative or anti-journal. (this applies to every aspect of OCI, be positive about everything). And also make sure that you have enough other stuff going on that interviewers don't think you're just slacking off.

edit: Just to reinforce the "don't be negative point" - don't say that xyz things you're going to do instead of journal are things that you're "actually passionate" about or that you believe they will help you be a better lawyer, implying that journal wouldn't do that. At OCI you should be passionate about everything - you're just super extra passionate about xyz things. You know that journal would be a valuable experience but you're really excited about xyz things that you're going to do for [reasons]. You don't have to fake unreasonable enthusiasm, just be careful with your wording.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for that advice. Yes because more than likely the interviewer will have been on a journal and the last thing I'd want to do is offend him/her.

[Anonymous User]

For posterity: didn't get hogan lovells Denver bidding them at 2. Everything else was pretty much what you'd expect based on the bid-to-interview ratios chart.

[Anonymous User]

hit:
21. simpson thatcher (palo alto)
22. hillis clark (seattle)
26. perkins coie (seattle)
28. irell (newport beach)

miss:
2. nixon peabody (sf)
6. hogan lovells (denver)
19. gibson dunn (sf)
20. OMM (sf)
23. Gunderson Dettmer (redwood city)
24. sheppard mullin (sf)
25. winston & strawn (sf)
27. davis wright (seattle)
29. bryan cave (denver)
30. polsinelli (denver)

[scaliaantics]

I had 28 interviews last year. I added 3-4 through either emailing firms i missed on or through add drop.

Do all of your interviews. Until you have an offer in your hand, I don't care if you think you're competitive for Wachtell and think that there is no way you'd ever work at [insert firm here], you interview like its your dream job.

I did 28 interviews, moved apartments, had 3 callback dinners, a host of callbacks, and a medical emergency all during OCI. Was it hard? Yes. Was it the most terrible experience ever? No.

This isn't that bad. You will do things far harder in life. I promise you.

Don't drop your interviews. Don't listen to classmates who are upset because you're interviewing at places that aren't your top choice. Nobody is making a sacrifice for you. You don't have to make one for anyone else. If the system is fucked, the system is fucked. There are lots of times to be a reformer but, given that this is probably the most important week of your professional life, this is not the time.

[Druid]

Don't drop your interviews. Don't listen to classmates who are upset because you're interviewing at places that aren't your top choice. Nobody is making a sacrifice for you. You don't have to make one for anyone else. If the system is fucked, the system is fucked. There are lots of times to be a reformer but, given that this is probably the most important week of your professional life, this is not the time.

This. OCI is the one time I don't believe in sticking your neck out for classmates' needs. OCP doesn't want you to hoard interviews because then more people strike out and it's worse for the school. But fuck that. You take every bite at the apple because if you miss you're in for a world of hurt.

[Anonymous User]

Don't drop your interviews. Don't listen to classmates who are upset because you're interviewing at places that aren't your top choice. Nobody is making a sacrifice for you. You don't have to make one for anyone else. If the system is fucked, the system is fucked. There are lots of times to be a reformer but, given that this is probably the most important week of your professional life, this is not the time.

This. OCI is the one time I don't believe in sticking your neck out for classmates' needs. OCP doesn't want you to hoard interviews because then more people strike out and it's worse for the school. But fuck that. You take every bite at the apple because if you miss you're in for a world of hurt.

i'm torn on this. on the one hand, i agree that you should be looking out for yourself and don't be overly confident. on the flip side, there is a lottery involved, and some people get screwed over. if you have a 3.6 and 26 interviews, it might be worth dropping that nixon peabody interview that's back to back with something else.

also, MANY people end up just dropping interviews during OCI. the problem is that they end up just going to those peoples' friends. even though this benefitted a lot of people i know, it was one of the most "law school as popularity contest" moments i have witnessed, with people just hoarding interviews from their buddies, and smart but quiet (and unlucky) people getting screwed. I think its better for people to just drop in the add/drop period if they know they don't want something. where's that michigan difference?

I'm thinking about rejecting a secondary journal. I have less than no interest in it. Should I accept and fake that I'm excited about it at OCI, or reject and be honest, and if asked why no journal say I decided to spend my time doing xyz, about which I am actually passionate, and i believe will help me be a better lawyer. I am thinking the latter would make for a better interview. But maybe I'm crazy.

just ranting: we have too many journals. can someone explain to me why TWO new journals were accredited last year? its not competitive at all, no one doesn't get a journal. lets just axe one. then actually having a journal on your resume means something.

so yea. drop it. you might even look more unique for it.

[NYSprague]

I apologize for not being an alum and posting here.

You guys need to understand that you should keep every screener you have.

A screener is not a callback a callback is not an offer.

You don't know how you will do and this is your best shot to get a job.

Don't get overconfident because 23 or 26 sounds like a lot.

I think all these firms are interviewing at other schools too and they have limited spots to fill.

[scaliaantics]

Don't drop your interviews. Don't listen to classmates who are upset because you're interviewing at places that aren't your top choice. Nobody is making a sacrifice for you. You don't have to make one for anyone else. If the system is fucked, the system is fucked. There are lots of times to be a reformer but, given that this is probably the most important week of your professional life, this is not the time.

This. OCI is the one time I don't believe in sticking your neck out for classmates' needs. OCP doesn't want you to hoard interviews because then more people strike out and it's worse for the school. But fuck that. You take every bite at the apple because if you miss you're in for a world of hurt.

i'm torn on this. on the one hand, i agree that you should be looking out for yourself and don't be overly confident. on the flip side, there is a lottery involved, and some people get screwed over. if you have a 3.6 and 26 interviews, it might be worth dropping that nixon peabody interview that's back to back with something else.

also, MANY people end up just dropping interviews during OCI. the problem is that they end up just going to those peoples' friends. even though this benefitted a lot of people i know, it was one of the most "law school as popularity contest" moments i have witnessed, with people just hoarding interviews from their buddies, and smart but quiet (and unlucky) people getting screwed. I think its better for people to just drop in the add/drop period if they know they don't want something. where's that michigan difference?

I'm thinking about rejecting a secondary journal. I have less than no interest in it. Should I accept and fake that I'm excited about it at OCI, or reject and be honest, and if asked why no journal say I decided to spend my time doing xyz, about which I am actually passionate, and i believe will help me be a better lawyer. I am thinking the latter would make for a better interview. But maybe I'm crazy.

just ranting: we have too many journals. can someone explain to me why TWO new journals were accredited last year? its not competitive at all, no one doesn't get a journal. lets just axe one. then actually having a journal on your resume means something.

so yea. drop it. you might even look more unique for it.

No. To literally all of this.

[Anonymous User]

Drop any firm for which you already have an offer that you would definitely rather take. Unless the firm is located in southern cal.

It seems like a lot of people were in the 18-25 range, seems like we had it way easier than last year. I've got a few back to backs. might ditch some of those late if they don't change.

And who hates their classmates so much that they want there to be fewer journals so that people can't get on them. There's law review for prestige and options for everyone else to show they're interested. If you missed law review and you're upset because you don't have people to look down on, that's pathetic. Join JLR.

Also, this is not that likely to be the most important week of your professional life. Let's not hype it too much. It's just job interviews. Be chill; be happy; be yourself.

[Druid]

Also, this is not that likely to me the most important week of your professional life. Let's not hype it too much. It's just job interviews. Be chill; be happy; be yourself.

You should be chill, happy, and yourself, but if you want a firm job this is the most important week of your professional life.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Another alum checking in to say that you absolutely should not drop screeners just because they're back-to-back or you think you have too many already. Unless you have an offer in hand that you would unquestionably take over that particular firm, which you won't unless you've already been mass mailing and getting callback offers (which you should have already started doing, by the way), then you should be hustling and pursuing every opportunity you have. Keep in mind that your callbacks will all include five or six 30-minute, back-to-back interviews, so you might as well buckle up and get the practice in now.

[Anonymous User]

Also, this is not that likely to me the most important week of your professional life. Let's not hype it too much. It's just job interviews. Be chill; be happy; be yourself.

You should be chill, happy, and yourself, but if you want a firm job this is the most important week of your professional life.

As compared to say, the week of finals, or the week you take the bar, or the weeks when you actually do something that matters to the world (I actually intend to do stuff that matters, just maybe not in the next 6 or 7 years)? The reality is that there isn't too much you can do at this point. Your resume is what it is, and your grades are what they are. You just have to seem likable and interested in the firm for 20 minutes. If doing that repeatedly is going to be the most important week of your professional life, you're not going to have a very important professional life. Maybe if you're K-JD this is daunting, but for the majority of you who had real jobs between college and law school, this isn't really anything new. Relax.

[Neal Patrick Harris]

Also, this is not that likely to me the most important week of your professional life. Let's not hype it too much. It's just job interviews. Be chill; be happy; be yourself.

You should be chill, happy, and yourself, but if you want a firm job this is the most important week of your professional life.

As compared to say, the week of finals, or the week you take the bar, or the weeks when you actually do something that matters to the world (I actually intend to do stuff that matters, just maybe not in the next 6 or 7 years)? The reality is that there isn't too much you can do at this point. Your resume is what it is, and your grades are what they are. You just have to seem likable and interested in the firm for 20 minutes. If doing that repeatedly is going to be the most important week of your professional life, you're not going to have a very important professional life. Maybe if you're K-JD this is daunting, but for the majority of you who had real jobs between college and law school, this isn't really anything new. Relax.

Though relaxing will help, saying there's nothing you can do now is stupid. Top grades can strike out with bad interviewing and median grades can feast with good interviewing.

Also your whole "I'm not a KJD so listen to me, little ones" schtick is idiotic and clearly gives you a false sense of superiority

[Anonymous User]

I didn't say there wasn't anything. I said there wasn't too much. Know the firms. Have your points to hit down. But hyping this into the most important week of your professional life is just asking for an aneurism. By all means, call OCP and do a dry run, put together a binder outlining the firms you're interviewing with (their office location, their business, the interviewers), but at the end of the day your job, especially if your grades are good and you have some experience doing something, is just to be engaged and likable. Don't get too revved up for it.

[scaliaantics]

Also, this is not that likely to me the most important week of your professional life. Let's not hype it too much. It's just job interviews. Be chill; be happy; be yourself.

You should be chill, happy, and yourself, but if you want a firm job this is the most important week of your professional life.

As compared to say, the week of finals, or the week you take the bar, or the weeks when you actually do something that matters to the world (I actually intend to do stuff that matters, just maybe not in the next 6 or 7 years)? The reality is that there isn't too much you can do at this point. Your resume is what it is, and your grades are what they are. You just have to seem likable and interested in the firm for 20 minutes. If doing that repeatedly is going to be the most important week of your professional life, you're not going to have a very important professional life. Maybe if you're K-JD this is daunting, but for the majority of you who had real jobs between college and law school, this isn't really anything new. Relax.

OCI is the week that defines your career if you are interested in working at a firm. Nothing else you mentioned actively defines your career. Take this seriously.

[Anonymous User]

Grades certainly can end of directing your career, as can any number of accomplishments. It's a huge stretch to say OCI "defines" your career. He's not saying don't take it seriously. He's saying you guys are getting too amped up about it. Thinking that OCI is the end all be all is a way to get no offered.

These are screening interviews...does the person present well? do their grades meet our expectations? are they an interesting person? do they have relevant experience? are they demonstrating a strong interest in our firm and in our city? if you were on a desert island with this person, would you kill yourself right away or would you ask them to tell you some jokes first?

you just need to get the interviewers to answer those questions the right way.

[soj]

for the love of god don't drop interviews. you should be picking up interviews. and by you i mean everyone, including the person ranked #1.

[scaliaantics]

Grades certainly can end of directing your career, as can any number of accomplishments. It's a huge stretch to say OCI "defines" your career. He's not saying don't take it seriously. He's saying you guys are getting too amped up about it. Thinking that OCI is the end all be all is a way to get no offered.

These are screening interviews...does the person present well? do their grades meet our expectations? are they an interesting person? do they have relevant experience? are they demonstrating a strong interest in our firm and in our city? if you were on a desert island with this person, would you kill yourself right away or would you ask them to tell you some jokes first?

you just need to get the interviewers to answer those questions the right way.

We are now at a point where we are both saying the same thing but using different words.

Look. Striking out at OCI ends, for most people, any hope of a firm job. Low grades don't do that. An accomplishment here or there doesn't do that. This is it for the vast majority of people with regards to whether you can get a firm job.

You have to answer the questions that Anonymous listed above and you have to answer them well. And you have to take this seriously.

The reason this discussion started was because people were talking about dropping interviews. That is an unbelievably stupid idea. Doing so lessens your chances of getting a job during a point in time where getting a job is 1) most likely and 2) getting a job outside of this period of time is incredibly unlikely. Do what you need to do to look after yourself. After you have an offer, be nice. Cancel callbacks. Let go of offers you're not going to take. Do all of those good person things. But wait till you have an offer before you start thinking of other people before yourself.