Summer Associates 2014: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences... Forum

[Old Gregg]

Ouch

[sap]

I have a few friends summering near where I am who are doing corporate (I'm all lit-y) who have been asked to work weekends already, too. They aren't totally stoked about it, but of course they're putting on a good face. I got an assignment emailed to me today that I need to be ready to talk about first thing Monday morning, so I'm apparently working on weekends too. I'm not sure BD is trying to show off here... and I'm incredibly jealous of everyone who's just relaxing and not working on the weekends. Even if the work product we're being asked to produce over the weekends isn't valuable at all, we still have to, you know, produce it.

[Birdnals]

I strike a middle ground when I'm given an assignment at 5:00pm that requires me to work late or asked to work through the weekend. I don't whip out my pom-poms and jump for joy, but I don't act salty about it either. I smile and say thanks, then I put my head down and do my job. That's it.

Haven't you been working at a firm for like three weeks? What makes you the expert on weekend work? You really trying to act like you're this rockstar who is asked to work every weekend as an SA? (I know you are, but come on, the charade can end at some point. We are all friends here).

I don't get this weird fascination people have with crawling up BD's ass ITT.

He vented he had to work some weekends/nights and said it sucks to be stuck working but he was enjoying the type of work so it wasn't bad for him. He also assumed most people got direct deposit, which considering most major companies do pay that way isn't some sort of crazy off the wall assumption.

Neither of those things seems especially atrocious/striver in a thread labeled: "Summer Associates 2014: Thoughts, Anxieties, Experiences..."

It's almost like he is sharing his thoughts, anxieties, and experiences.

Everybody needs to step off his dick and let the boy cook.

[Danger Zone]

Well this thread went to shit quickly

[sap]

Also, I'm noticing all of the attorneys who are having little office romances. I'm secretly crossing my fingers for some drama to go down - not because I don't like them, but because I grew up on awful law firm dramas and my inner child feels like this can't be real law without drama.

[jbagelboy]

I did not go in the office today (my first wkend); I thought maybe I should have given that the project I'm on is due Monday, so I asked someone on friday after work (it was strongly suggested I should head to happy hour with the others) and they said definitely don't. But I kept getting emails today related to the work (not specifically directed to me, including me in all team emails.) I gave all the research i'd been doing to the attorneys before I left Friday.

If there was a section I was expected to come in and work on today, there was no indication of it.. I'm operating on a summers-watch/learn/do-specifically-as-told and not otherwise theory.

Its not really quite as critical for me to get an "offer," per se, but I definitely dont want to be fired/make a terrible impression

[Old Gregg]

I did not go in the office today (my first wkend); I thought maybe I should have given that the project I'm on is due Monday, so I asked someone on friday after work (it was strongly suggested I should head to happy hour with the others) and they said definitely don't. But I kept getting emails today related to the work (not specifically directed to me, including me in all team emails.) I gave all the research i'd been doing to the attorneys before I left Friday.

If there was a section I was expected to come in and work on today, there was no indication of it.. I'm operating on a summers-watch/learn/do-specifically-as-told and not otherwise theory.

Its not really quite as critical for me to get an "offer," per se, but I definitely dont want to be fired/make a terrible impression

You're fine. And it's good they're keeping you on emails. They're keeping you looped in, so that if a request came in related to them, you'd have some context. Nothing more frustrating then getting your first email in a week on a matter with the body of "please do this" and a whole chain of emails below that that you have to catch up on and decipher what's being requested.

[deebanger]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

[jbagelboy]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

Idk about firms specifically but Yes it's weird to not want free (good) alcohol, unless you are going to get free (good) alcohol elsewhere.

[Old Gregg]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

I have mixed opinions on this as someone who can and does drink, but doesn't enjoy drinking. But after a lot of thinking, I've arrived at this conclusion:

No one is going to judge you negatively if you don't drink or if you don't typically attend social events. Like, no one says, "oh shit, that guy didn't come, what a weirdo." But, by not going to these sort of events, you miss bonding moments that help you integrate socially with the firm. And this can be really crucial down the line when you're working with them. There's something about impromptu social events that creates connections in ways that planned ones don't. I'm not one to do these things, but I force myself. By not integrating socially, odds are a lot higher that you just become invisible. And if the firm hits bad times, you don't want to be invisible.

If you don't drink for religious reasons, then I respect that. But if you don't drink just because you don't drink, my usual middle ground is to suggest that you get a beer and nurse it for the night. No one will be any the wiser.

Lots of people do the whole water/gin and tonic thing. But I like the beer thing better.

[deebanger]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

Idk about firms specifically but Yes it's weird to not want free (good) alcohol, unless you are going to get free (good) alcohol elsewhere.

but, what if you just dont drink at all?

[jbagelboy]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

Idk about firms specifically but Yes it's weird to not want free (good) alcohol, unless you are going to get free (good) alcohol elsewhere.

but, what if you just dont drink at all?

That's pretty fucking weird IMO unless you're pregnant or something

[deebanger]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

I have mixed opinions on this as someone who can and does drink, but doesn't enjoy drinking. But after a lot of thinking, I've arrived at this conclusion:

No one is going to judge you negatively if you don't drink or if you don't typically attend social events. Like, no one says, "oh shit, that guy didn't come, what a weirdo." But, by not going to these sort of events, you miss bonding moments that help you integrate socially with the firm. And this can be really crucial down the line when you're working with them. There's something about impromptu social events that creates connections in ways that planned ones don't. I'm not one to do these things, but I force myself. By not integrating socially, odds are a lot higher that you just become invisible. And if the firm hits bad times, you don't want to be invisible.

If you don't drink for religious reasons, then I respect that. But if you don't drink just because you don't drink, my usual middle ground is to suggest that you get a beer and nurse it for the night. No one will be any the wiser.

Lots of people do the whole water/gin and tonic thing. But I like the beer thing better.

ok got it, thanks! and if it comes down to it, you would reccommend just putting up with it and grab a beer right, is it a faux pas to grab soda? I just dont drink alcohol. Personally, I think you should be able to drink what you like, regardless of what people think about you, since you’re there to make friends and not get wasted, but I do not know what others will think.

[deebanger]

zweitbeister- what would you say to associates who do not drink? is it really necessary to go happy hours? would the people who do not go to happy hours be considered a bit weird.

Idk about firms specifically but Yes it's weird to not want free (good) alcohol, unless you are going to get free (good) alcohol elsewhere.

but, what if you just dont drink at all?

That's pretty fucking weird IMO unless you're pregnant or something

a lot of people dont, for numerous reasons, and health is often a big part of it.

[bizzike]

0L here so take it with a grain of salt, but I had an extended on boarding for a consulting gig that was very similar to SA in terms of social events. Your superiors generally take your absence as arrogance. If a principal (or partner in your case) is going to a happy hour on a Friday, he damn well expects you to be there, whether you're drinking or not.

The whole point of these events is to get you face time with people you won't see once you start really working and the idea is to build relationships / find people who will throw you billable work when things are slow. Literally, telling jokes about Seinfeld episodes with a superior might get you staffed on something you want to be on.

If you're uncomfortable in the presence of other people drinking, FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT.

For the rest of your life you will have to attend business functions, weddings, social gatherings where everyone is going to be drinking and you have to socialize with them while you're sober. Socializing at events you don't want to be at is a part of every job and if you haven't done so already use your SA to figure out how to function like an acceptable human at social events that involve booze. Go to a happy hour, put face time in with your company.

On a side note, don't be the ass hat drinking O' Douls at the bar, you're just punishing yourself.

user has been warned for posting in the Legal Employment forum as a 0L/posting in the SA thread without having been a SA

[Birdnals]

ok got it, thanks! and if it comes down to it, you would reccommend just putting up with it and grab a beer right, is it a faux pas to grab soda? I just dont drink alcohol. Personally, I think you should be able to drink what you like, regardless of what people think about you, since you’re there to make friends and not get wasted, but I do not know what others will think.

Drink whatever you want. Some people will think it is weird. A vast majority won't give a shit. Just know that many people, especially in a field rife with borderline alcoholics like the practice of law, consider making friends and drinking beers as going hand-in-hand.

If you don't drink for non-religious reasons this can't be the first time you are hearing that some people find that weird.

[chem]

Glad the 0Ls are here now.

Back to on topic shit. Has anyone asked the "real" questions of anyone yet? Stuff like getting a feel for associate morale, how they feel about partner stuff, who's good to work for?

I've had some drunken conversations with some 2nd-3rd years who happily answered, but given the potential negativity of the answers I'm always afraid that a qq might be verboten.

Edit: Dearest 0L's, I know you are trying to help,but given the availability of people who have gone through actual law firm summer associate gigs, see summers every year, and other summers, the advice you give really just takes up room. xoxo chem

[Valley of the Deer]

Glad the 0Ls are here now.

Back to on topic shit. Has anyone asked the "real" questions of anyone yet? Stuff like getting a feel for associate morale, how they feel about partner stuff, who's good to work for?

I've had some drunken conversations with some 2nd-3rd years who happily answered, but given the potential negativity of the answers I'm always afraid that a qq might be verboten.

Ask them who they work with, rather than who they like working with. Gets a more honest answer.

[20141023]

.

[echooo23]

Despite the party line that we're not supposed to work too hard, I'm having to work weekends anyway. Meanwhile, I feel neurotic and nervous that I'm being striver-y and annoying, which will get me no-offered, but how can I not when I'm given an assignment on Friday with a first-thing-next-week deadline? It's not even like I'm working more hours than I normally study during the school year (which is admittedly a lot), but the deadlines and the pressure makes it a whole different animal. Basically, I'm a gigantic ball of stress, feeling at once that a) I have no idea what I'm doing, b) am taking too long to finish my assignments and thus am working weekends to meet deadlines, c) but by working weekends I'm annoying the associates, d) which might cause them to give me a less than stellar review of my attitude and work, e) which could get me no-offered, f) but do I really want this to be my life for a few years, g) but I have no choice because my loans are what they are. The SA experience, I think I'm doing it wrong.

[jbagelboy]

Despite the party line that we're not supposed to work too hard, I'm having to work weekends anyway. Meanwhile, I feel neurotic and nervous that I'm being striver-y and annoying, which will get me no-offered, but how can I not when I'm given an assignment on Friday with a first-thing-next-week deadline? It's not even like I'm working more hours than I normally study during the school year (which is admittedly a lot), but the deadlines and the pressure makes it a whole different animal. Basically, I'm a gigantic ball of stress, feeling at once that a) I have no idea what I'm doing, b) am taking too long to finish my assignments and thus am working weekends to meet deadlines, c) but by working weekends I'm annoying the associates, d) which might cause them to give me a less than stellar review of my attitude and work, e) which could get me no-offered, f) but do I really want this to be my life for a few years, g) but I have no choice because my loans are what they are. The SA experience, I think I'm doing it wrong.

At least you are showing up and completing all of your work. If my partner intended for me, and not the attorneys I was placed under, to write a section of this brief over the weekend (which I did not do), my career with this firm will basically be over. haha.

I think you probably should relax a little though.

[2014]

This thread took a legitimately entertaining turn the last 24 hours.

My BB hasn't gone off since Friday at 6 with some auto-generated message. Living the dream.

[NYSprague]

Despite the party line that we're not supposed to work too hard, I'm having to work weekends anyway. Meanwhile, I feel neurotic and nervous that I'm being striver-y and annoying, which will get me no-offered, but how can I not when I'm given an assignment on Friday with a first-thing-next-week deadline? It's not even like I'm working more hours than I normally study during the school year (which is admittedly a lot), but the deadlines and the pressure makes it a whole different animal. Basically, I'm a gigantic ball of stress, feeling at once that a) I have no idea what I'm doing, b) am taking too long to finish my assignments and thus am working weekends to meet deadlines, c) but by working weekends I'm annoying the associates, d) which might cause them to give me a less than stellar review of my attitude and work, e) which could get me no-offered, f) but do I really want this to be my life for a few years, g) but I have no choice because my loans are what they are. The SA experience, I think I'm doing it wrong.

At least you are showing up and completing all of your work. If my partner intended for me, and not the attorneys I was placed under, to write a section of this brief over the weekend (which I did not do), my career with this firm will basically be over. haha.

I think you probably should relax a little though.

Please relax. Completing your work is the most important thing. Being thrilled because you get to work the weekend because it feels great that you're being utilized is a different issue.
Maybe you are taking on too much work?
Just don't be panicked and anxious, no summers know exactly what they are doing. This is normal.

[gk101]

Despite the party line that we're not supposed to work too hard, I'm having to work weekends anyway. Meanwhile, I feel neurotic and nervous that I'm being striver-y and annoying, which will get me no-offered, but how can I not when I'm given an assignment on Friday with a first-thing-next-week deadline? It's not even like I'm working more hours than I normally study during the school year (which is admittedly a lot), but the deadlines and the pressure makes it a whole different animal. Basically, I'm a gigantic ball of stress, feeling at once that a) I have no idea what I'm doing, b) am taking too long to finish my assignments and thus am working weekends to meet deadlines, c) but by working weekends I'm annoying the associates, d) which might cause them to give me a less than stellar review of my attitude and work, e) which could get me no-offered, f) but do I really want this to be my life for a few years, g) but I have no choice because my loans are what they are. The SA experience, I think I'm doing it wrong.

relax. No associate is going to be annoyed just because you came in on a weekend (as long as you are not smiling and being overly enthusiastic about having to come in on weekends for "very important work"). If I saw a summer or even a first year working on their first weekend, I would be surprised more than anything else and may even try to help them out if they weren't a douche about it.

From my experience, no partner is gonna give important work to SAs and definitely not in their first few weeks. These research assignments are usually things the partner already knows and just expects you to confirm his understanding of them. They expect you to have no idea about what you're doing. They also expect you to take a lot longer to finish an assignment. Just try to relax and finish the work as best as you can

Also the quote below is very credited.

Re: The dichotomy about obsessing over details vs. not making a big deal about stuff that no one expects you to know, people who claim there is a difference and they know what it is are deluding themselves and trying to assign meaning where there is none.

There is no way to know in advance whether Workshare is something you are supposed to know vs. the color of appellee briefs covers in some random jurisdiction or whether it's okay to leave an event early because you are meeting with a partner in the morning. There is no way to use common sense to figure out what to do in half the situations that present themselves over the summer. The solution is not to beat yourself up for being aspie or to anticipate every possible eventuality, because neither of those are possible. You can't change your personality in the two weeks between finals and SA and whatever you think of and prepare for, something else will come up.

If there is one skill you have when you begin working at a firm full time it ought to be the ability to transcend the shit going on all around you rather than getting caught up and being immersed in it. If you have a summer associate job, the odds are good that you can pick up what needs to be done and you can do it well. Trust yourself on that. And in the meantime, make sure that you can remain centered within yourself, and maintain a healthy identity independent of the outcome of your summer associate-ship. As a summer associate and a junior associate, you will inevitably screw up. In all screw ups, trivial or career threatening, your outcome will be much better if you are the stable, consistent, personable guy than if you are the neurotic, desperate aspie.

[bruinfan10]

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