Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions Forum

[Emma.]

What about commuting with caltrain? Looks like the commute on bullet would be only 30 minutes and I could possibly get some work done while I sit. Not hard to read patents on a train.

If you are prepared to live in SOMA then Caltrain might be viable. But depending on where your office is in SV you might struggle to get back and forth between the office and the train. Don't fool yourself in thinking your commute would be anything like 30 mins though. The transit time for the train might be close to half an hour (though I think it's closer to 40 mins) but even if you lived right across from the SF station you still have to factor in the time it takes to get to the station and board. Even if you live right next to the station and you are going to be at one of the offices within walking distance of the train (many aren't), you're still looking at more like an hour door to door.

[Anonymous User]

What about commuting with caltrain? Looks like the commute on bullet would be only 30 minutes and I could possibly get some work done while I sit. Not hard to read patents on a train.

I lived in Palo Alto and commuted to SF this summer via Caltrain. It can easily take 1.5 hours one way mainly because of the last-mile problem. Yes the train itself takes 35 minutes, but the time getting to the train station, waiting, boarding, getting from train to office adds up quickly. It may be possible to read on the train (I've done it before), but it's not going to be the most pleasant experience.

Emma was right that for your commute to be under 1 hour, you really have to live/work next to the train station. Also, if you ever work past the baby bullet hours, you're looking at at least 1 hour of train time.

[merde_happens]

Is San Fransisco part of Sillicon Valley?

No. SF is SF. Silicon Valley is the general south bay area (spanning Redwood City through San Jose/Cupertino, generally speaking).

Also, what is the San Fransisco market known for? Banking, tech, and antitrust?

SF does mostly lit, as mentioned. You can find pretty much any lit practice out here. Lots of IP, of course, but also a lot of antitrust, securities, general commercial, white collar, appellate, ELR, etc. A few firms do management-side employment litigation.

If you're looking for corporate: (a) most of it is in SV, and (b) again, you'll find most corporate work out here. A lot of tech trans, emerging companies/VC financing, M&A. Not as much cap markets work, generally speaking.

Do many people commute from SF to PA? Love to hear from people who do about how it works for them.

Did this last summer. Would not recommend. Is only feasible in a few scenarios:

1. You ride a motorcycle;

2. You have an electric car or carpool with a coworker;

3. You are willing to live at the office (i.e. leaving SF at/before 7, leaving the office after 7); OR your firm is flexible enough on facetime that you can leave your house later (after traffic dies down)...still leaving the office at/after 7.

What about commuting with caltrain? Looks like the commute on bullet would be only 30 minutes and I could possibly get some work done while I sit. Not hard to read patents on a train.

If you are prepared to live in SOMA then Caltrain might be viable. But depending on where your office is in SV you might struggle to get back and forth between the office and the train. Don't fool yourself in thinking your commute would be anything like 30 mins though. The transit time for the train might be close to half an hour (though I think it's closer to 40 mins) but even if you lived right across from the SF station you still have to factor in the time it takes to get to the station and board. Even if you live right next to the station and you are going to be at one of the offices within walking distance of the train (many aren't), you're still looking at more like an hour door to door.

This is credited. Also, Caltrain is in my opinion ridiculously unreliable. The trains are old and break down all the time. Plus there seems to be a suicide a week these days (which causes at minimum a 2 hour delay). Do not discount how shitty it is to get off work at 7, thinking you'll be home by 8, only to not get home until 10 because Caltrain has failed you yet again.

[Anonymous User]

Is San Fransisco part of Sillicon Valley?

No. SF is SF. Silicon Valley is the general south bay area (spanning Redwood City through San Jose/Cupertino, generally speaking).

Also, what is the San Fransisco market known for? Banking, tech, and antitrust?

SF does mostly lit, as mentioned. You can find pretty much any lit practice out here. Lots of IP, of course, but also a lot of antitrust, securities, general commercial, white collar, appellate, ELR, etc. A few firms do management-side employment litigation.

If you're looking for corporate: (a) most of it is in SV, and (b) again, you'll find most corporate work out here. A lot of tech trans, emerging companies/VC financing, M&A. Not as much cap markets work, generally speaking.

I totally will take your word for it, but then why does, for example, the Wikipedia page for SV say SF is included? Am I missing out on something contextual as to how the term SV is used in given situations?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley

[rpupkin]

What about commuting with caltrain? Looks like the commute on bullet would be only 30 minutes and I could possibly get some work done while I sit. Not hard to read patents on a train.

I lived in Palo Alto and commuted to SF this summer via Caltrain. It can easily take 1.5 hours one way mainly because of the last-mile problem. Yes the train itself takes 35 minutes, but the time getting to the train station, waiting, boarding, getting from train to office adds up quickly. It may be possible to read on the train (I've done it before), but it's not going to be the most pleasant experience.

This is accurate but similar considerations apply to BART, Muni, and basically every public transportation system in any urban area. Your effective commute time is always going to be longer than the ride itself.

[rpupkin]

I totally will take your word for it, but then why does, for example, the Wikipedia page for SV say SF is included? Am I missing out on something contextual as to how the term SV is used in given situations?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley

That wikipedia entry does not reflect common usage. When people say "SV" or "Silicon Valley," they mean the Santa Clara Valley and the Peninsula.

Perhaps someone who doesn't live in California might use "San Francisco" and "Silicon Valley" interchangeably. But no one who lives here does that. The two are considered very separate, both geographically and culturally.

[El Pollito]

Is San Fransisco part of Sillicon Valley?

No. SF is SF. Silicon Valley is the general south bay area (spanning Redwood City through San Jose/Cupertino, generally speaking).

Also, what is the San Fransisco market known for? Banking, tech, and antitrust?

SF does mostly lit, as mentioned. You can find pretty much any lit practice out here. Lots of IP, of course, but also a lot of antitrust, securities, general commercial, white collar, appellate, ELR, etc. A few firms do management-side employment litigation.

If you're looking for corporate: (a) most of it is in SV, and (b) again, you'll find most corporate work out here. A lot of tech trans, emerging companies/VC financing, M&A. Not as much cap markets work, generally speaking.

I totally will take your word for it, but then why does, for example, the Wikipedia page for SV say SF is included? Am I missing out on something contextual as to how the term SV is used in given situations?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley

No one IRL says that SF is in SV.

[ManoftheHour]

Tag

[Anonymous User]

What about commuting with caltrain? Looks like the commute on bullet would be only 30 minutes and I could possibly get some work done while I sit. Not hard to read patents on a train.

If you are prepared to live in SOMA then Caltrain might be viable. But depending on where your office is in SV you might struggle to get back and forth between the office and the train. Don't fool yourself in thinking your commute would be anything like 30 mins though. The transit time for the train might be close to half an hour (though I think it's closer to 40 mins) but even if you lived right across from the SF station you still have to factor in the time it takes to get to the station and board. Even if you live right next to the station and you are going to be at one of the offices within walking distance of the train (many aren't), you're still looking at more like an hour door to door.

Agree with this completely (though would add that you could live in Potrero near the 22nd street station as well and then maybe you could do the commute by train).

I commuted from SF to various parts of the Valley for 2.5 years. I even took Bart to Caltrain for a year of that, which was miserable. Eventually, I moved to the southern part of SF (past Glen Park) and drove. It still sucked, but it sucked less.

If you work in SV, I would strongly suggest advise against living in the city.

[Anonymous User]

If you work in SV, I would strongly suggest advise against living in the city.

Unless you work in-house at one of the big tech companies. Those Google buses aren't so bad. Also, I hear that living around Candlestick is workable if youre only going down to the peninsula and can time your commutes.

That being said, living in SF and commuting south is a lifestyle choice, and you should only do it if you understand what you're giving up (an easy commute) for the privilege of living in the city.

Also, IMO the term SV doesn't include anything north of Palo Alto, and is roughly coterminus with Santa Clara County.

[hdunlop]

Decent number in my summer office commute from SF, all from parts south. They come in early and do twelve hours basically. No food and culture is worth that commute imo but they're fine with it.

[merde_happens]

Also, IMO the term SV doesn't include anything north of Palo Alto, and is roughly coterminus with Santa Clara County.

Except you've got Facebook in Menlo Park and Oracle in RWC (to name only the big players), plus Google just bought a ton of land in Redwood Shores to build a new campus. Regardless, I think we can all agree that it doesn't include SF.

Also the Candlestick area is a dump and not accessible enough to the city to be justifiable, IMO. Personally, I think you have to either commit to living fully in the city or fully in the burbs, close to work. Splitting the difference basically ensures you get the worst of both worlds (not in the city + a shitty commute).

[Anonymous User]

Very broad question, but if anyone has thoughts (quality of life/culture, stealth cold offers, particularly terrible partners, quality of work, etc.) on these SF firms for non-IP lit, I'd love your input!

Gibson
Orrick
MoFo
A&P
Latham
Cooley
Sidley
Perkins Coie
Covington

Also, thoughts on Hanson Bridgett? Are they actually a "lifestyle" firm, or would you basically have the same quality of life as in biglaw, but for less pay?

[Anonymous User]

Bump, can anyone speak on why WSGR/Cooley/Fenwick bonuses were below market this year? Considering offers from these firms and was wondering if this should be a concern.

[Anonymous User]

What are good areas to look at for housing for working in the SV (Palo Alto) area? Commute time <= 20-25 mins, without completely breaking the bank?

[rpupkin]

Bump, can anyone speak on why WSGR/Cooley/Fenwick bonuses were below market this year? Considering offers from these firms and was wondering if this should be a concern.

I can't speak about those firms specifically, but "market" is usually set by NYC-based law firms. When market bonuses go up in NYC, California-based firms often lag behind. This isn't just a WSGR/Cooley/Fenwick thing.

[El Pollito]

Bump, can anyone speak on why WSGR/Cooley/Fenwick bonuses were below market this year? Considering offers from these firms and was wondering if this should be a concern.

I can't speak about those firms specifically, but "market" is usually set by NYC-based law firms. When market bonuses go up in NYC, California-based firms often lag behind. This isn't just a WSGR/Cooley/Fenwick thing.

yeah CA bonuses are pathetic given the COL

[camelcrema]

What are good areas to look at for housing for working in the SV (Palo Alto) area? Commute time <= 20-25 mins, without completely breaking the bank?

What qualifies as "completely breaking the bank"? Parts of Mountain View are okay.

[Old Gregg]

What are good areas to look at for housing for working in the SV (Palo Alto) area? Commute time <= 20-25 mins, without completely breaking the bank?

What qualifies as "completely breaking the bank"? Parts of Mountain View are okay.

Nope. At this point you've gotta look at Sunnyvale. Have friends who bought in Pacifica too.

[rpupkin]

What are good areas to look at for housing for working in the SV (Palo Alto) area? Commute time <= 20-25 mins, without completely breaking the bank?

What qualifies as "completely breaking the bank"? Parts of Mountain View are okay.

Nope. At this point you've gotta look at Sunnyvale. Have friends who bought in Pacifica too.

Pacifica is a lot farther away than a 20-25 minute commute to Palo Alto.

Look, the options for rent are laughably expensive, ridiculously expensive, and really expensive. But, yeah, look around Mountain View and Sunnyvale. Also Redwood City.

[Old Gregg]

What are good areas to look at for housing for working in the SV (Palo Alto) area? Commute time <= 20-25 mins, without completely breaking the bank?

What qualifies as "completely breaking the bank"? Parts of Mountain View are okay.

Nope. At this point you've gotta look at Sunnyvale. Have friends who bought in Pacifica too.

Pacifica is a lot farther away than a 20-25 minute commute to Palo Alto.

Look, the options for rent are laughably expensive, ridiculously expensive, and really expensive. But, yeah, look around Mountain View and Sunnyvale. Also Redwood City.

Yes, but it's a lot cheaper than Palo Alto. Not everyone has the funds to live down the street from the Zuck.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know of a solid resource other than Chambers for determining relative strength of particular practice groups in the area? Seems hard to find anything on the smaller offices. Looking specifically at M&A for Cooley, Shearman, Pillsbury, Paul Hastings, Jones Day.

[goden]

REDWOOD CITY TO 190

[rpupkin]

REDWOOD CITY TO 1900/month for 250 sq ft. "studio"

[camelcrema]

REDWOOD CITY TO 1900/month for 250 sq ft. "studio"

Instantly made me think of this posting (although in SF): http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5202931562.html