Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for all the helpful advice so far!

My quesstion: As a transfer student, who is now a 3L with grades from my new school. Does my prior 1L transcript even matter? I have a significant drop between 1L and 2L (went from top 5% and after GPA reset I now am top 1/3 ish at new school). What is the best way to display this information? After having a GPA at the new school I have just put that GPA, leaving my old school off to prevent confusion and to save space. Would you recommend a different method? Any insight on how firms percieve this would be appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

In regards to the credit check that some of the other posters have mentioned, how far do you usually go back (or consider)? Is this portion of the background check more concerned with the credit score or the items listed on the credit report? I lost my job a few years back and had some chargeoffs. None were above $1000 and all have been paid in full for several years now. My credit score is not yet recovered from this, although it has improved a great deal and would be considered fair to good by most standards. Could this prevent me from obtaining a position at a law firm even if, by that time, several years may have passed since the last delinquency?

Also, for those that may have found themselves jobless during the recession, do you consider the reasons behind certain delinquencies or are the applicants immediately denied for having sub-par credit? I have been turned down for jobs due to this several times in the past and was given no opportunity to explain the circumstances. It seems counterintuitive that someone would not be allowed to work to make money because they couldn't pay their bills, which requires money.

Could consumer debt also pose an issue for C&F? I saw it mentioned above, but wasn't sure if it applied solely to the child support issue or to all past due debt.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!

Thank you for your reply. Especially the part where I need to be very grateful if I hear a figure close to $160K!

The question that was not answered regarded when to discuss pay. Do you lay it out for the candidate, or do we have to go fishing for it? In short, when is the preferred time to discuss pay?

Again, a hundred thanks!

The salary question is not one you should approach. At all. You can ask around it - "does your firm a lockstep comp system" etc. It is really presumptive and off-putting for a student to bring up salaries. Especially early in the process. Most large firms list entry level salaries on their NALP form so you can get an idea from there. Those starting points are 99.9999999999999999% set in stone and there is no wiggle room at all.

[ToTransferOrNot]

In regards to the credit check that some of the other posters have mentioned, how far do you usually go back (or consider)? Is this portion of the background check more concerned with the credit score or the items listed on the credit report? I lost my job a few years back and had some chargeoffs. None were above $1000 and all have been paid in full for several years now. My credit score is not yet recovered from this, although it has improved a great deal and would be considered fair to good by most standards. Could this prevent me from obtaining a position at a law firm even if, by that time, several years may have passed since the last delinquency?

Also, for those that may have found themselves jobless during the recession, do you consider the reasons behind certain delinquencies or are the applicants immediately denied for having sub-par credit? I have been turned down for jobs due to this several times in the past and was given no opportunity to explain the circumstances. It seems counterintuitive that someone would not be allowed to work to make money because they couldn't pay their bills, which requires money.

Could consumer debt also pose an issue for C&F? I saw it mentioned above, but wasn't sure if it applied solely to the child support issue or to all past due debt.

Anything that touches on your ability to handle money is potential fair game for C&F; the reasoning is that past-due debt/inability to handle money may lead to ethics issues because you are in the position of handling clients' money (particularly in the small firm context). This doesn't mean you're going to get C&F dinged; but, if you have serious past-due issues and chargeoffs, you should probably consider getting in touch with a C&F lawyer.

[Anonymous User]

Hi, thanks so much for taking questions. This has been the most helpful thread I have ever read on TLS.

I am going to a minority fair to interview with a few firms and have no experience with firm interviews. I don't even know how I got these preselects because I am in the bottom third of my class, and I submitted apps before I knew I had written onto Law Review. Bottom third at a respectable but not top-top school (top 30). Am I a serious candidate? Out of 22 interview slots, how many go on for callbacks and offers for a large firm? What about a regional firm?

[Ele]

I mean, the tone of your posts in this thread shows that you are either: (1) (and this is what I'm banking on) extraordinarily entitled and sheltered; (2) uninformed as to how the legal job market operates; or (3) a complete lunatic.

(1) Yes, I am a princess.
(2) Even more true.
(3) Will be able to answer that question beginning in September!

And to those earlier posts, thanks for the NALP Directory.

[Ele]

Columbia is sure as hell not in the same league as HYS.

Excuse me! You do realize HYC are ALL Ivy schools. The reason Stanford is listed ahead of Columbia is to do with a perceived need for upper level west coast representation. Even though they are not Ivy, I am guessing Stanford, Chicago and NYU are good schools.

It seems curious that there is a ranking referred to as T-6. Why not T-7 to include Penn (also Ivy). Oh well, I have three years to straighten all this out!

[Sentry]

Columbia is sure as hell not in the same league as HYS.

Excuse me! You do realize HYC are ALL Ivy schools. The reason Stanford is listed ahead of Columbia is to do with a perceived need for upper level west coast representation. Even though they are not Ivy, I am guessing Stanford, Chicago and NYU are good schools.

It seems curious that there is a ranking referred to as T-6. Why not T-7 to include Penn (also Ivy). Oh well, I have three years to straighten all this out!

Please keep your flaming to less helpful threads.

[Kronk]

Columbia is sure as hell not in the same league as HYS.

Excuse me! You do realize HYC are ALL Ivy schools. The reason Stanford is listed ahead of Columbia is to do with a perceived need for upper level west coast representation. Even though they are not Ivy, I am guessing Stanford, Chicago and NYU are good schools.

It seems curious that there is a ranking referred to as T-6. Why not T-7 to include Penn (also Ivy). Oh well, I have three years to straighten all this out!

Please keep your flaming to less helpful threads.

+1. Clear troll.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Thank you for all the helpful advice so far!

My quesstion: As a transfer student, who is now a 3L with grades from my new school. Does my prior 1L transcript even matter? I have a significant drop between 1L and 2L (went from top 5% and after GPA reset I now am top 1/3 ish at new school). What is the best way to display this information? After having a GPA at the new school I have just put that GPA, leaving my old school off to prevent confusion and to save space. Would you recommend a different method? Any insight on how firms percieve this would be appreciated.

I'd prefer to just see the one GPA listed. Since you had a drop in GPA, I would probably suggest leaving it off also because I would wonder what happened that made you slide so much.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

In regards to the credit check that some of the other posters have mentioned, how far do you usually go back (or consider)? Is this portion of the background check more concerned with the credit score or the items listed on the credit report? I lost my job a few years back and had some chargeoffs. None were above $1000 and all have been paid in full for several years now. My credit score is not yet recovered from this, although it has improved a great deal and would be considered fair to good by most standards. Could this prevent me from obtaining a position at a law firm even if, by that time, several years may have passed since the last delinquency?

Also, for those that may have found themselves jobless during the recession, do you consider the reasons behind certain delinquencies or are the applicants immediately denied for having sub-par credit? I have been turned down for jobs due to this several times in the past and was given no opportunity to explain the circumstances. It seems counterintuitive that someone would not be allowed to work to make money because they couldn't pay their bills, which requires money.

Could consumer debt also pose an issue for C&F? I saw it mentioned above, but wasn't sure if it applied solely to the child support issue or to all past due debt.

A low credit score by itself would not prevent you from getting a position with our firm. If/when I see credit issues, I talk to the candidate to hear what caused it. There is most likely a reason behind it and as long as the candidate is truthful and has a plan in place, everything is fine.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Hi, thanks so much for taking questions. This has been the most helpful thread I have ever read on TLS.

I am going to a minority fair to interview with a few firms and have no experience with firm interviews. I don't even know how I got these preselects because I am in the bottom third of my class, and I submitted apps before I knew I had written onto Law Review. Bottom third at a respectable but not top-top school (top 30). Am I a serious candidate? Out of 22 interview slots, how many go on for callbacks and offers for a large firm? What about a regional firm?

This is a very broad question that has a lot of variables. You probably will get a few callbacks and you would not have been preselected if the firms were not seriously considering you. In your interview, give solid examples of your plans to raise your grades. Writing on to the Law Review is an excellent start and shows your ability to improve. You'll be fine.

[robert85]

When you interview with a firm, what information do you absolutely need to know before walking into the interview? How do you advise rising 2ls that have never had a real job before to do well in an interview with a firm?(i.e., I only know about 1l basic law courses and nothing about various practice areas, what to expect working at a firm, etc)? Basically, i've just got my 1l grades and that's it.

[Anonymous User]

You've said several times in this thread that you understand why someone might not have a 1L summer job ITE. But, do you look at someone who got a law clerk job after 1L and think, "this person passed the smell test already" or "this person can at least interview" or anything positive about the fact that some firm out there decided to take that person over others? [especially if say grades are equal between a candidate with no 1L job and one with].

[lawfirmrecruiter]

When you interview with a firm, what information do you absolutely need to know before walking into the interview? How do you advise rising 2ls that have never had a real job before to do well in an interview with a firm?(i.e., I only know about 1l basic law courses and nothing about various practice areas, what to expect working at a firm, etc)? Basically, i've just got my 1l grades and that's it.

You need to be able to explain why you want to be a lawyer, what you enjoyed about 1st year and what you would ultimately like to do. We understand that you dont have specific experience yet and that's okay. Just be relaxed and be yourself.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

You've said several times in this thread that you understand why someone might not have a 1L summer job ITE. But, do you look at someone who got a law clerk job after 1L and think, "this person passed the smell test already" or "this person can at least interview" or anything positive about the fact that some firm out there decided to take that person over others? [especially if say grades are equal between a candidate with no 1L job and one with].

Its definitely a positive - especially if it is a firm gig. Those are extremely competitive and look fantastic on your resume. I just harp on it not being a negative because it really won't hurt you if you don't have a 1L firm job.

[OnceUponAMemo]

No pressing question here, just wanted to say thank you for all the advice. It is much appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

You addressed briefly having a 1L job at a firm vs. not having a firm job.

What about being an RA for a professor or two during 1L summer? Is this looked at less favorably than, say, working for a local judge? Or does it all get thrown into the same "it's something law-related" category and carries little weight in either direction?

[Anonymous User]

You've said several times in this thread that you understand why someone might not have a 1L summer job ITE. But, do you look at someone who got a law clerk job after 1L and think, "this person passed the smell test already" or "this person can at least interview" or anything positive about the fact that some firm out there decided to take that person over others? [especially if say grades are equal between a candidate with no 1L job and one with].

Its definitely a positive - especially if it is a firm gig. Those are extremely competitive and look fantastic on your resume. I just harp on it not being a negative because it really won't hurt you if you don't have a 1L firm job.

Follow up to that question, what about a 1L in-house position in a large company that is very representative of firm clients within my desired practice areas? Any particular advice on how to translate the experience there (seeing in-house counsel operations and the operations of a large business) into good cover letter points?

[Aston2412]

You've said several times in this thread that you understand why someone might not have a 1L summer job ITE. But, do you look at someone who got a law clerk job after 1L and think, "this person passed the smell test already" or "this person can at least interview" or anything positive about the fact that some firm out there decided to take that person over others? [especially if say grades are equal between a candidate with no 1L job and one with].

Its definitely a positive - especially if it is a firm gig. Those are extremely competitive and look fantastic on your resume. I just harp on it not being a negative because it really won't hurt you if you don't have a 1L firm job.

Do you mean a judicial internship? To my knowledge clerkships require that you have a JD.

[Anonymous User]

You've said several times in this thread that you understand why someone might not have a 1L summer job ITE. But, do you look at someone who got a law clerk job after 1L and think, "this person passed the smell test already" or "this person can at least interview" or anything positive about the fact that some firm out there decided to take that person over others? [especially if say grades are equal between a candidate with no 1L job and one with].

Its definitely a positive - especially if it is a firm gig. Those are extremely competitive and look fantastic on your resume. I just harp on it not being a negative because it really won't hurt you if you don't have a 1L firm job.

Do you mean a judicial internship? To my knowledge clerkships require that you have a JD.

If you mean "law clerk" no, I meant firm job not judicial internship. I am from a region that generally describes 1Ls as law clerks and 2Ls as summer associates.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

You addressed briefly having a 1L job at a firm vs. not having a firm job.

What about being an RA for a professor or two during 1L summer? Is this looked at less favorably than, say, working for a local judge? Or does it all get thrown into the same "it's something law-related" category and carries little weight in either direction?

It probably depends on what you are doing but it all looks law related and good.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

No pressing question here, just wanted to say thank you for all the advice. It is much appreciated.

You are quite welcome. Happy to help out. I hope my suggestions give some insight to the other side of this fence ...

[Anonymous User]

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!......

i really hope this doesn't mean you are a 0L. if you are, come back when you have "good grades" at CLS.

[Bronte]

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!......

i really hope this doesn't mean you are a 0L. if you are, come back when you have "good grades" at CLS.

Poster you're quoting is a troll.