Let's talk about Atlanta! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Top 1/3 from WashU/UT-Austin is going to be really, really difficult. As far as HYSCCN (and I say these schools at the very least not all inclusive) the above is definitely incorrect. From my experience there is no real grade cutoff. ATL firms look for ties, fits and commitment to the area more so than firms in other cities. There are so few positions at the top firms that once you get to the HYSCCN level a lot more than grades are important.

For reference, I was a little below median at one of HYSCCN and ended up with two offers (out of 5 total interviews) at top-5 Atlanta firms.

What about top 1/4 from these schools with extensive ties to the city (as in, grew up and lived there for 20 years)?

Probably going to need something else that looks interesting on your resume (e.g. brand name past job/internship, brand name undergrad, law review, URM) or excellent networking for the top firms (A+B, K&S, Sutherland, JD, PH, etc.). To be in good shape based on grades alone you want to be top 10-15% at a Vandy/UT-Austin. Obviously it can and has been done with grades below that but odds are stacked against you these days. During my summer, K&S hired like 12 or 13 and NALP is showing 7 for this summer. ATL is rough. We are talking less than 100 true BigLaw summer associate positions in the entire city. Add in the fact that perceived "feeder schools" for atlanta include all of UGA, Emory, Duke, UVA, Vandy and UNC plus the HYS people who want to go back to the south.

[Anonymous User]

Top 1/3 from WashU/UT-Austin is going to be really, really difficult. As far as HYSCCN (and I say these schools at the very least not all inclusive) the above is definitely incorrect. From my experience there is no real grade cutoff. ATL firms look for ties, fits and commitment to the area more so than firms in other cities. There are so few positions at the top firms that once you get to the HYSCCN level a lot more than grades are important.

For reference, I was a little below median at one of HYSCCN and ended up with two offers (out of 5 total interviews) at top-5 Atlanta firms.

What about top 1/4 from these schools with extensive ties to the city (as in, grew up and lived there for 20 years)?

Probably going to need something else that looks interesting on your resume (e.g. brand name past job/internship, brand name undergrad, law review, URM) or excellent networking for the top firms (A+B, K&S, Sutherland, JD, PH, etc.). To be in good shape based on grades alone you want to be top 10-15% at a Vandy/UT-Austin. Obviously it can and has been done with grades below that but odds are stacked against you these days. During my summer, K&S hired like 12 or 13 and NALP is showing 7 for this summer. ATL is rough. We are talking less than 100 true BigLaw summer associate positions in the entire city. Add in the fact that perceived "feeder schools" for atlanta include all of UGA, Emory, Duke, UVA, Vandy and UNC plus the HYS people who want to go back to the south.

Yikes, and thanks. I'm going to bid heavy NY and mass mail and network and all that stuff, but seems that it will be an uphill battle. Can I PM you? Have some specific questions about my background and Atlanta that would definitely out me.

[AllTheLawz]

Top 1/3 from WashU/UT-Austin is going to be really, really difficult. As far as HYSCCN (and I say these schools at the very least not all inclusive) the above is definitely incorrect. From my experience there is no real grade cutoff. ATL firms look for ties, fits and commitment to the area more so than firms in other cities. There are so few positions at the top firms that once you get to the HYSCCN level a lot more than grades are important.

For reference, I was a little below median at one of HYSCCN and ended up with two offers (out of 5 total interviews) at top-5 Atlanta firms.

What about top 1/4 from these schools with extensive ties to the city (as in, grew up and lived there for 20 years)?

Probably going to need something else that looks interesting on your resume (e.g. brand name past job/internship, brand name undergrad, law review, URM) or excellent networking for the top firms (A+B, K&S, Sutherland, JD, PH, etc.). To be in good shape based on grades alone you want to be top 10-15% at a Vandy/UT-Austin. Obviously it can and has been done with grades below that but odds are stacked against you these days. During my summer, K&S hired like 12 or 13 and NALP is showing 7 for this summer. ATL is rough. We are talking less than 100 true BigLaw summer associate positions in the entire city. Add in the fact that perceived "feeder schools" for atlanta include all of UGA, Emory, Duke, UVA, Vandy and UNC plus the HYS people who want to go back to the south.

Yikes, and thanks. I'm going to bid heavy NY and mass mail and network and all that stuff, but seems that it will be an uphill battle. Can I PM you? Have some specific questions about my background and Atlanta that would definitely out me.

Sure, go ahead and PM.

[Anonymous User]

Top 1/3 from WashU/UT-Austin is going to be really, really difficult. As far as HYSCCN (and I say these schools at the very least not all inclusive) the above is definitely incorrect. From my experience there is no real grade cutoff. ATL firms look for ties, fits and commitment to the area more so than firms in other cities. There are so few positions at the top firms that once you get to the HYSCCN level a lot more than grades are important.

For reference, I was a little below median at one of HYSCCN and ended up with two offers (out of 5 total interviews) at top-5 Atlanta firms.

What about top 1/4 from these schools with extensive ties to the city (as in, grew up and lived there for 20 years)?

Jesus, just apply for the job and sell yourself! No one can give you a reliable prediction of your chances of success because there just aren't that many people from outside those schools. You can figure that out from looking at bios of associates (or partners) on the website, or from searching law school on the Georgia Bar Directory. If you don't go to (1) a local school, (2) some of the traditional non-local favorites (e.g., UVA, Vandy, UNC, depending on the firm), or (3) anybody's favorite school (e.g., HYSCCN), then it's just going to be a crapshoot.

And there isn't a hill of bean difference between top third and top quarter, particularly from schools the people evaluating your candidacy aren't as familiar with, so that's just not going to matter. You either have good grades or you do not. Sell whatever you've got as well as you can.

My suggestion: If you have "extensive ties" then use the hell out of them to get your resume in front of someone who can decide to interview you. I cannot tell you how often I've seen (and myself have benefited from) "This person is a friend of | knows so-and-so, so we're going to talk to them." It may start out as as courtesy phone call or lunch. If that goes well, it can turn into an interview. But what you need to realize is that the firms in Atlanta can meet all their hiring needs just fine without going outside the "usual" suspects of law schools. In that sense, they're no no different than Wachtell, Cravath, etc. Unlike those NY firms though, most Atlanta firms are happy to take a high percentage of the home grown talent. Whatever you may think of that talent, Atlanta firms are making that choice.

The Atlanta firms aren't married to the local choice or the traditional choice, but it's the default. WashU/Texas, and even NYU/Georgetown are not the default, most likely. Do the firms come to your campus? Do a resume collect from your school? Are you going to a specialty job fair (e.g., minority, LGBT, IP) where the firms are looking across a broader swath of law schools not included in their on-campus schedule? If the answer to all these is no, just realize you have an uphill battle. Your grades, ties, connections will all be factors in how well you fare. But there is no simple answer.

[Anonymous User]

^^^ What if said person below median (at T14 outside the South) has strong Atlanta ties? Still wasting their time?

You need a job so don't let an answer on a forum prevent you from applying. But for the most part yes. Your chances of getting Atlanta biglaw, even with ties, below median at a top 14 other than HYS are not good.

[Anonymous User]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

[North]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

[Anonymous User]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

I think the insights in the last several (substantive) posts are still applicable to you, even though you're more in a "frequent" Atlanta school. The problem for you is that there are plenty of UVA folks with better grades that share your interest in Atlanta. As with most things that want to know your "chances," there is no answer. Just apply. As you should have known coming in, below median, even at a good school, means you have an uphill battle. I didn't go to as good a school as you, and my "mark" to hit was a good bit higher; that's just what I knew was the case going in.

That said, I'll leave you with the following data point on rank "guidelines" from the mid-sized Atlanta firm I summered at. There was a doc from the recruiting department in the document management system that contained the language it used for the various schools it did OCI/OGI, telling potential applicants what the general range of rank was. UVA was "top half" (plus some other mark, like moot court or a jounal). Emory/UGA were something like "top 25%", journal preferred. Georgia State was like top 10 or 15%, law review preferred.

That's a thin data point, but that tells you the midsize firm (not the top of the market in Atlanta) would have been skeptical of a below-median UVA candidate. Not that they wouldn't pick you up during OGI, but you're likely not at the top of the list unless there's some other hook (you know someone, specific background, etc.). Good luck.

[lawhopeful10]

Does anyone what Atlanta firms would provide the best corporate work. King and Spalding seems to have a highly ranked corporate practice according to Chambers so I think I mainly wonder if being at a home office like K+S is best or are satellite offices of other very highly ranked firms in Altanta such as Paul Hastings or Jones Day comparable/better in the corporate work they have. I have heard that people at firms like Paul Hastings or Jones Day work with people in other offices to do deals so I'm not sure if one is limited by being at a satellite but any info would be appreciated.

[North]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

I think the insights in the last several (substantive) posts are still applicable to you, even though you're more in a "frequent" Atlanta school. The problem for you is that there are plenty of UVA folks with better grades that share your interest in Atlanta. As with most things that want to know your "chances," there is no answer. Just apply. As you should have known coming in, below median, even at a good school, means you have an uphill battle. I didn't go to as good a school as you, and my "mark" to hit was a good bit higher; that's just what I knew was the case going in.

That said, I'll leave you with the following data point on rank "guidelines" from the mid-sized Atlanta firm I summered at. There was a doc from the recruiting department in the document management system that contained the language it used for the various schools it did OCI/OGI, telling potential applicants what the general range of rank was. UVA was "top half" (plus some other mark, like moot court or a jounal). Emory/UGA were something like "top 25%", journal preferred. Georgia State was like top 10 or 15%, law review preferred.

That's a thin data point, but that tells you the midsize firm (not the top of the market in Atlanta) would have been skeptical of a below-median UVA candidate. Not that they wouldn't pick you up during OGI, but you're likely not at the top of the list unless there's some other hook (you know someone, specific background, etc.). Good luck.

Goddamn it

[Anonymous User]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

I think the insights in the last several (substantive) posts are still applicable to you, even though you're more in a "frequent" Atlanta school. The problem for you is that there are plenty of UVA folks with better grades that share your interest in Atlanta. As with most things that want to know your "chances," there is no answer. Just apply. As you should have known coming in, below median, even at a good school, means you have an uphill battle. I didn't go to as good a school as you, and my "mark" to hit was a good bit higher; that's just what I knew was the case going in.

That said, I'll leave you with the following data point on rank "guidelines" from the mid-sized Atlanta firm I summered at. There was a doc from the recruiting department in the document management system that contained the language it used for the various schools it did OCI/OGI, telling potential applicants what the general range of rank was. UVA was "top half" (plus some other mark, like moot court or a jounal). Emory/UGA were something like "top 25%", journal preferred. Georgia State was like top 10 or 15%, law review preferred.

That's a thin data point, but that tells you the midsize firm (not the top of the market in Atlanta) would have been skeptical of a below-median UVA candidate. Not that they wouldn't pick you up during OGI, but you're likely not at the top of the list unless there's some other hook (you know someone, specific background, etc.). Good luck.

Those class rank "requirements" are complete BS. They're blowing smoke.

[rad lulz]

.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

I think the insights in the last several (substantive) posts are still applicable to you, even though you're more in a "frequent" Atlanta school. The problem for you is that there are plenty of UVA folks with better grades that share your interest in Atlanta. As with most things that want to know your "chances," there is no answer. Just apply. As you should have known coming in, below median, even at a good school, means you have an uphill battle. I didn't go to as good a school as you, and my "mark" to hit was a good bit higher; that's just what I knew was the case going in.

That said, I'll leave you with the following data point on rank "guidelines" from the mid-sized Atlanta firm I summered at. There was a doc from the recruiting department in the document management system that contained the language it used for the various schools it did OCI/OGI, telling potential applicants what the general range of rank was. UVA was "top half" (plus some other mark, like moot court or a jounal). Emory/UGA were something like "top 25%", journal preferred. Georgia State was like top 10 or 15%, law review preferred.

That's a thin data point, but that tells you the midsize firm (not the top of the market in Atlanta) would have been skeptical of a below-median UVA candidate. Not that they wouldn't pick you up during OGI, but you're likely not at the top of the list unless there's some other hook (you know someone, specific background, etc.). Good luck.

Those class rank "requirements" are complete BS. They're blowing smoke.

Come on dawg. There are literally pages on pages discussing the Atl hiring hierarchy, supported by the experiences of multiple people who have gone through the OCI process and worked in Atl firms. Maybe the exact cutoffs are subject to some fuziness depending on the firm and the particular person, but pretty much everyone agrees on the broad contours (e.g. anyone with a pulse from HYS, top half-ish from T14, top quarter from Vandy/UT tier, top 15ish from Emory/UGA, and top 5%ish from the rest of the Georgia schools). If you're gonna dispute that you have to offer something more insightful than a conclusory one-liner

[mrjohnsterman]

Does anyone what Atlanta firms would provide the best corporate work. King and Spalding seems to have a highly ranked corporate practice according to Chambers so I think I mainly wonder if being at a home office like K+S is best or are satellite offices of other very highly ranked firms in Altanta such as Paul Hastings or Jones Day comparable/better in the corporate work they have. I have heard that people at firms like Paul Hastings or Jones Day work with people in other offices to do deals so I'm not sure if one is limited by being at a satellite but any info would be appreciated.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1235 ... torial/5/1

[lawhopeful10]

Does anyone what Atlanta firms would provide the best corporate work. King and Spalding seems to have a highly ranked corporate practice according to Chambers so I think I mainly wonder if being at a home office like K+S is best or are satellite offices of other very highly ranked firms in Altanta such as Paul Hastings or Jones Day comparable/better in the corporate work they have. I have heard that people at firms like Paul Hastings or Jones Day work with people in other offices to do deals so I'm not sure if one is limited by being at a satellite but any info would be appreciated.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1235 ... torial/5/1

Thanks. This is a more general question but are there any advantages or disadvantages to being at a firms' satellite office?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any info on Hall Booth Smith? I met a partner recently and it seemed like a decent firm. Also, office in Tibilisi, Georgia (the country) - pretty weird/cool.

Can't find them on NALP, so wondering about summer class size, offer rates, starting salary, etc. Would guess that they pay under Atlanta market?

[BruceWayne]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

Your chances are not good at all and trust me I am probably more qualified to answer this question than anyone on here. Your best bet out of the major firms will be Troutman (still not great but possible). Bid Troutman #1 for OGI; you have to interview with them if you want a shot at Atlanta. All the other big name firms are not happening period unless you have an engineering undergrad degree. Your main hope will be the midsize and smaller firms but frankly not by much at all--especially if you are not from Georgia/didn't go to UGA/Emory/GA State etc. Out of those I would say Smith Gambrell and Arnall are your best bet because they have history with UVA. People need to understand that Atlanta just doesn't care that much about school prestige outside of HYS. UVA and Duke will put you in a better position than the rest of the top 14 because they do have an ATL connection, but not to the extent that you would think.

And frankly, I would go so far as to say that the rank difference between what most ATL firms will dig down to at UVA/Duke vs. Vandy is actually too small to even matter for 90% of people interviewing. Looking back on it I would probably recommend Vandy with money over UVA/Duke for someone from the South who wants to stay.

[Anonymous User]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

Your chances are not good at all and trust me I am probably more qualified to answer this question than anyone on here. Your best bet out of the major firms will be Troutman (still not great but possible). Bid Troutman #1 for OGI; you have to interview with them if you want a shot at Atlanta. All the other big name firms are not happening period unless you have an engineering undergrad degree. Your main hope will be the midsize and smaller firms but frankly not by much at all--especially if you are not from Georgia/didn't go to UGA/Emory/GA State etc. Out of those I would say Smith Gambrell and Arnall are your best bet because they have history with UVA. People need to understand that Atlanta just doesn't care that much about school prestige outside of HYS. UVA and Duke will put you in a better position than the rest of the top 14 because they do have an ATL connection, but not to the extent that you would think.

And frankly, I would go so far as to say that the rank difference between what most ATL firms will dig down to at UVA/Duke vs. Vandy is actually too small to even matter for 90% of people interviewing. Looking back on it I would probably recommend Vandy with money over UVA/Duke for someone from the South who wants to stay.

This goes against everything my school's career services office said....and I'm inclined to believe it. I'm at a T14 (7-10ish range) outside the south, born and raised in Atlanta, but have a 3.3. The career services lady told me my best shot at a job during OCI was with Atlanta firms, so bid all of them first. WTF

[Anonymous User]

Your chances are not good at all and trust me I am probably more qualified to answer this question than anyone on here. Your best bet out of the major firms will be Troutman (still not great but possible). Bid Troutman #1 for OGI; you have to interview with them if you want a shot at Atlanta. All the other big name firms are not happening period unless you have an engineering undergrad degree. Your main hope will be the midsize and smaller firms but frankly not by much at all--especially if you are not from Georgia/didn't go to UGA/Emory/GA State etc. Out of those I would say Smith Gambrell and Arnall are your best bet because they have history with UVA. People need to understand that Atlanta just doesn't care that much about school prestige outside of HYS. UVA and Duke will put you in a better position than the rest of the top 14 because they do have an ATL connection, but not to the extent that you would think.

And frankly, I would go so far as to say that the rank difference between what most ATL firms will dig down to at UVA/Duke vs. Vandy is actually too small to even matter for 90% of people interviewing. Looking back on it I would probably recommend Vandy with money over UVA/Duke for someone from the South who wants to stay.

This goes against everything my school's career services office said....and I'm inclined to believe it. I'm at a T14 (7-10ish range) outside the south, born and raised in Atlanta, but have a 3.3. The career services lady told me my best shot at a job during OCI was with Atlanta firms, so bid all of them first. WTF

Ehh.. that puts you around median right? If so, I'll second with BruceWayne said and let you know it is going to be tough. I was around median (slightly below) at HYS and Atlanta was definitely my most difficult market, even harder than DC. I ended up getting something like 2 offered from 8 interviews.

As another datapoint, the last few years at my HYS King & Spalding has been giving 12-15 screening interviews, extending 2-4 callbacks and only making 0-2 offers. This is one of the top 2 big firms in Atlanta.

[North]

This sucks hard.

ATL is the only big city my SO wouldn't 100% hate living in.

[lawhopeful10]

Can I make Atlanta happen with slightly (3.23) below median at UVA?

ETA: Just read the last page.

This anon is me. Anyone have insight? Or are my chances that bleak?

Your chances are not good at all and trust me I am probably more qualified to answer this question than anyone on here. Your best bet out of the major firms will be Troutman (still not great but possible). Bid Troutman #1 for OGI; you have to interview with them if you want a shot at Atlanta. All the other big name firms are not happening period unless you have an engineering undergrad degree. Your main hope will be the midsize and smaller firms but frankly not by much at all--especially if you are not from Georgia/didn't go to UGA/Emory/GA State etc. Out of those I would say Smith Gambrell and Arnall are your best bet because they have history with UVA. People need to understand that Atlanta just doesn't care that much about school prestige outside of HYS. UVA and Duke will put you in a better position than the rest of the top 14 because they do have an ATL connection, but not to the extent that you would think.

And frankly, I would go so far as to say that the rank difference between what most ATL firms will dig down to at UVA/Duke vs. Vandy is actually too small to even matter for 90% of people interviewing. Looking back on it I would probably recommend Vandy with money over UVA/Duke for someone from the South who wants to stay.

This goes against everything my school's career services office said....and I'm inclined to believe it. I'm at a T14 (7-10ish range) outside the south, born and raised in Atlanta, but have a 3.3. The career services lady told me my best shot at a job during OCI was with Atlanta firms, so bid all of them first. WTF

Ask your career services lady to back up her advice with actual data. If all you want is something out of OCI, conventional wisdom is to bid New York firms with large class sizes. If your career services lady is giving out shitty advice she could seriously be fucking some kids over.

[rad lulz]

.

[de5igual]

Does anyone what Atlanta firms would provide the best corporate work. King and Spalding seems to have a highly ranked corporate practice according to Chambers so I think I mainly wonder if being at a home office like K+S is best or are satellite offices of other very highly ranked firms in Altanta such as Paul Hastings or Jones Day comparable/better in the corporate work they have. I have heard that people at firms like Paul Hastings or Jones Day work with people in other offices to do deals so I'm not sure if one is limited by being at a satellite but any info would be appreciated.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1235 ... torial/5/1

Thanks. This is a more general question but are there any advantages or disadvantages to being at a firms' satellite office?

everything is very firm and office dependent

some pros:
-(generally) smaller office, so teams would be staffed more leanly
-greater chance of lateraling outside your market (to where your firm has a larger office)
-NYC pay

some cons:
-(generally) less reputable in the city where you're practicing than a firm HQ'd there, which can affect client types and exit ops within the city (I have no statistics to back this up, but law isn't as portable as other degrees--the state/city where you start is typically where you'll be for the long haul)
- fewer connections to the high profile lawyers in the city, who are typically at the HQ office (relates to the first point)
-if dealflow is dependent on your HQ office, your office could be shut down at any moment (see Weil Boston/Houston)

ETA: ignore Vault when deciding on secondary markets. Paul Hastings and Jones Day are not "more prestigious" than K&S and A&B in Atlanta.

[ugawarrent]

trust me I am probably more qualified to answer this question than anyone on here.

Oh yes, this definitely convinces me of your qualifications and endengers everyone's trust in BruceWayne. Even if I agree with a good bit of what you suggest, your statement creates more lolz than anything.

outed for anon abuse

[lawhopeful10]

Does anyone what Atlanta firms would provide the best corporate work. King and Spalding seems to have a highly ranked corporate practice according to Chambers so I think I mainly wonder if being at a home office like K+S is best or are satellite offices of other very highly ranked firms in Altanta such as Paul Hastings or Jones Day comparable/better in the corporate work they have. I have heard that people at firms like Paul Hastings or Jones Day work with people in other offices to do deals so I'm not sure if one is limited by being at a satellite but any info would be appreciated.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1235 ... torial/5/1

Thanks. This is a more general question but are there any advantages or disadvantages to being at a firms' satellite office?

everything is very firm and office dependent

some pros:
-(generally) smaller office, so teams would be staffed more leanly
-greater chance of lateraling outside your market (to where your firm has a larger office)
-NYC pay

some cons:
-(generally) less reputable in the city where you're practicing than a firm HQ'd there, which can affect client types and exit ops within the city (I have no statistics to back this up, but law isn't as portable as other degrees--the state/city where you start is typically where you'll be for the long haul)
- fewer connections to the high profile lawyers in the city, who are typically at the HQ office (relates to the first point)
-if dealflow is dependent on your HQ office, your office could be shut down at any moment (see Weil Boston/Houston)

ETA: ignore Vault when deciding on secondary markets. Paul Hastings and Jones Day are not "more prestigious" than K&S and A&B in Atlanta.

Thanks, this is helpful.