Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

yeah, if those callback waitlists actually exist, I'd really appreciate it if those of you with more callbacks than you can handle decline some of them as soon as you know you're not interested

[Anonymous User]

To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

I also honestly don't know who any of you people are, because almost everyone i've spoken to is doing completely fine in terms of callbacks (and not just in NYC, across lots of markets). If you are a 0L/1L reading this, please don't think that these people represent the norm here.

A lot of people aren't going to admit that they're not getting CBs, at least in person. That's just how HLS people are.

There is probably a self-selection downwards on this site, though. I mean, you wouldn't really be visiting this site if you were getting good CBs.

I do think OCS could do a better job. Maybe they couldn't predict that NYC would be a relatively good market this year. But, their instructions said that DC and NYC were super-tough markets, but they didn't emphasize the difficulty of CA.

And, douches like you are a big part of the reason that coming to HLS was a sucky decision.

+1

I've talked to a variety of people who were in top 50% grade-wise (some top 1/3) and have great personalities (and were appropriately dressed at EIP) who have <3 (some <1) CBs. Some DC, but many of them were aiming exclusively for smaller markets to which they had strong ties. We do not have ALL the control over the process--we have no control over the # of CB/summer program slots, how many they want to devote to HLS kids, or whether they think an HLS kid is worth spending money to fly out if they assume we will get and accept a better offer. So, don't be such a douche.

[Anonymous User]

To the kid calling coming to HLS the "worst decision of his life" and the other one who says that HLS isn't a "golden ticket" anymore: quit your fucking whining. If you took everything that OCS said as gospel and didn't do your own research, that is your own fault. Also, don't pawn off your shitty grades or shitty personality on OCS. In the end, you had ALL the control over the outcome of EIP based on a) getting respectable grades, and/or b) being able to hold an interesting, non-awkward conversation with a person for 20 minutes (not that hard; also not hard is having some idea of how to dress and clean yourself up to look professional), and c) bidding semi-intelligently (in terms of picking markets, i.e. not exclusively DC or SF, and in terms of bidding firms within a realistic range).

This was really harshly worded, but I agree with a lot of this. An astonishing number of people I've spoken to didn't bother doing much more than a cursory amount of research on firms, markets, practice areas, etc. I might not go as far as to say that people with a low number of callbacks are extremely awkward, but the problem is that so many people don't know how to make a connection with an interviewer and make it so that the interviewer remembers who they are by the end of the day. You can be perfectly pleasant and nice, but that's not going to make you stand out and that's the name of the game. But I otherwise agree.

I do think OCS could do a better job. Maybe they couldn't predict that NYC would be a relatively good market this year. But, their instructions said that DC and NYC were super-tough markets, but they didn't emphasize the difficulty of CA.

What market in California have you found to be particularly difficult? OCS made it clear that SF is a tough market and I haven't found LA to be particularly tough.

[Anonymous User]

My problem really is that it's so unclear what top 50% means. I thought I was doing pretty well with 5 H's, but I guess not. I thought that the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes, which would indicate to me that 5 H's would likely be above-median, but maybe it's not enforced anymore?

What would make you think the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes? The email from Catherine Claypoole in early December that reiterated that the curve was simply recommended and that professors have discretion in doling out whatever percentage of grades?

But yes, 5H is roughly top 1/3.

[Anonymous User]

The real issue here is that we had hardly any data. If employers were up-front about their standards, and HLS would allow them to pre-screen, then it would be clear that we need to have some other types of firms interviewing at EIP. It turns out that there were hardly any firms at EIP interested in the bottom part of the class. Yet such firms clearly exist, because HLS students do get private employment, albeit after a lot more anxiety that is necessary. So why aren't we figuring out how to get the proper mix of firms for the entire student body, and then figuring out who needs to be interviewing where?

This post isn't getting enough love. I guess it's nice to play at being egalitarian and pretend like a guy with a bunch of LP's is gonna impress his way into Cravath if they just give him a shot. But really, all that's being accomplished here is wasting both sides' time.

In addition to employers, OCS needs to be more forthright about the numbers game as well. The recruiters they set us up with said my grades wouldn't be a problem except at like Irell & Manella and O'Melveny; the Strategic Bidding site says that even guys with straight P's can bid 6 or 7 'highly selective' firms. It took outreach to actual live summers to find out that it was all about grades. That shouldn't happen.

As someone who is around median, I appreciate not having prescreening. If someone with a bunch of LPs thought they would impress the screener from Cravath and get a callback, they didn't do their due diligence in speaking to OCS prior to bidding. I don't have confidence in all of the OCS advisers, but there are some in the office that I think do a great job of advising students.

That said, I was told that with my grades, firms like Irell and O'Melveny would be long shots, firms like Bingham and Paul Hastings would be targets, and then Foley & Lardner would be a safety. If anything, their advice was a little too conservative. I got the advice from OCS. The problem with the legal market recruiters is that they have no idea what our grades mean. One of them told me that 4H was Top 1/4 - 1/3 of the class which is beyond stupid (and clearly wrong).

[Anonymous User]

I don't go to HLS, but

why are you reading this thread? No one wants your opinion

[Anonymous User]

Is there a poll floating around to determine ranking? I'm tired of speculating. Since we have GPAs again, it should be rather simple to determine the honors cutoffs for graduation (3L here) if people honestly contribute to a poll.

[Anonymous User]

Weil Gotshal Boston callback by phone just now.

Interviewer initials?

[Anonymous User]

My problem really is that it's so unclear what top 50% means. I thought I was doing pretty well with 5 H's, but I guess not. I thought that the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes, which would indicate to me that 5 H's would likely be above-median, but maybe it's not enforced anymore?

What would make you think the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes? The email from Catherine Claypoole in early December that reiterated that the curve was simply recommended and that professors have discretion in doling out whatever percentage of grades?

But yes, 5H is roughly top 1/3.

You're totally right - I forgot about that. I guess I just figured that a curve that's not enforced is like a law that's not enforced - what's the point? I thought HLS may understand that sort of logic. Guess not.

[Anonymous User]

My problem really is that it's so unclear what top 50% means. I thought I was doing pretty well with 5 H's, but I guess not. I thought that the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes, which would indicate to me that 5 H's would likely be above-median, but maybe it's not enforced anymore?

What would make you think the curve was rigorously enforced for 1L classes? The email from Catherine Claypoole in early December that reiterated that the curve was simply recommended and that professors have discretion in doling out whatever percentage of grades?

But yes, 5H is roughly top 1/3.

You're totally right - I forgot about that. I guess I just figured that a curve that's not enforced is like a law that's not enforced - what's the point? I thought HLS may understand that sort of logic. Guess not.

I know I was slightly snarky in my reply, but the reality is that I think there were more LPs given out than we probably know. I didn't think anyone got an LP first year until I later found out about several people. People love to talk about how well they do, but you never hear about those who aren't doing as well. In short, you should be proud of your performance.

[Anonymous User]

I got an LP, but still managed to snag 10 callbacks, including several V20.

Only throw that out there since lots of people seem to think LPs are the end of the world, particularly ITE.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone who had a Quinn NYC dinner invite heard back officially?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone who had a Quinn NYC dinner invite heard back officially?

Pretty sure people heard back from Quinn NYC. You may want to call to ask. I heard from a friend that despite what many interviewers said at the dinner and at the interviews to students, not everyone who got invited to the dinner received a callback.

[Anonymous User]

I got a Quinn CB. I'd call them back if you were at the dinner.

[Anonymous User]

I couldn't attend the dinner, but I told them as much.

When I was given the invite, I was told "this means we'll be inviting you back to the office."

Odd. And lame.

[Anonymous User]

Orrick DC dinged me via E-mail today. Strangely worded ding, it said they were unable to invite me back for a second interview, but they'd keep my resume on file in case their hiring needs change and an opportunity develops? Sounds kind of like being waitlisted.

[Anonymous User]

Covington DC ding by snail mail
7 H's, 1 DS

[Anonymous User]

Orrick DC dinged me via E-mail today. Strangely worded ding, it said they were unable to invite me back for a second interview, but they'd keep my resume on file in case their hiring needs change and an opportunity develops? Sounds kind of like being waitlisted.

Write back and thank them! Firms don't have to do that for you--certainly didn't for me.

[Anonymous User]

Orrick DC dinged me via E-mail today. Strangely worded ding, it said they were unable to invite me back for a second interview, but they'd keep my resume on file in case their hiring needs change and an opportunity develops? Sounds kind of like being waitlisted.

Write back and thank them! Firms don't have to do that for you--certainly didn't for me.

Dude, they're just being passive aggressive. Go get your spite on.

[Anonymous User]

Followed up with Quinn after receiving a dinner invite (couldn't go) but no callback.

Turns out they dialed the wrong # and left my callback invite on the wrong voicemail!

Very excited to have the opportunity to interview with them.

[Anonymous User]

I got an LP, but still managed to snag 10 callbacks, including several V20.

Only throw that out there since lots of people seem to think LPs are the end of the world, particularly ITE.

wow, 10 callbacks? Is this due to the rest of your grades (i.e. bunch of Hs + one LP) or interviewing skills?

[Anonymous User]

I got an LP, but still managed to snag 10 callbacks, including several V20.

Only throw that out there since lots of people seem to think LPs are the end of the world, particularly ITE.

wow, 10 callbacks? Is this due to the rest of your grades (i.e. bunch of Hs + one LP) or interviewing skills?

I split right down the middle, so a bit of both I think. I interview well (went to public schools my whole life, so I can have a conversation with people).

[Anonymous User]

I interview well (went to public schools my whole life, so I can have a conversation with people).

Heh. I went to public schools my whole life and am the most awkward person you've ever met.

[Anonymous User]

Proskauer NY E-mail ding, just now.

[Anonymous User]

I interview well (went to public schools my whole life, so I can have a conversation with people).

Heh. I went to public schools my whole life and am the most awkward person you've ever met.

Darn. Theory shot