NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I don't think we're really concerned with the facts, so much as fairness. Obviously if firms are paying 180K in Texas, we could go there. I'm just saying they shouldn't pay them that amount there. I don't think the offices of most firms in Austin and to a lesser extent Dallas but also including Denver, Seattle, etc bring in nearly as much money as SF/SV, NYC, etc. On top of that, and perhaps relatedly, the COL is much higher in those areas. So it would make sense to keep more of the comp in those profit centers to offset the COL the associates incur while earning the bulk of the firm's profits.

I have a feeling some of these national firms are moving profits from high COL areas to pay for associates in lower COL areas with lower profits to keep their egos in tact and maintain a presence in that market. It's an investment in the market in most cases probably but I don't like that investment atm because it took 9 years to get a raise and I feel like we should get it first before investments go to the lower COLA.

But that's some generalizations and guesses on how it works on a firm by firm basis.

I think that's a very good point with respect to the NY-based firms and associates would certainly have a valid argument to partners for a raise. Skadden and STB come to mind for Houston. Tech firms in Austin is probably a valid investment, but agree about the long payoff window. But, GDC (Dallas) and Kirkland (Houston) were the most profitable offices firmwide on a relative basis (ETA: According to the firm). I think NY associates at Skadden, for example, should be irked though that they are paid the same as Skadden Houston associates. Although, I think most of that office came from NY so it seems like people who thought it would be worth it, and were permitted to, made the jump.

[Anonymous User]

I guaranty that the highly-regarded firms that fail to follow market will see a bigger lateral outflow post-bonus season and decreased interest at OCI.

Totally. I'm suspicious my firm will match anytime soon, at least outside of NY. I had no plans to consider a move anytime soon, but now I intend to freshen up my firm bio and resume. My firm already doesn't do full market bonuses unless you bill well over the requirement, so between not matching market and not getting full market bonuses I'll end up substantially underpaid compared to my peers. And on top of that I'm in SF so it's not like it's cheap living. I've got no firm loyalty in general but this is the right amount of money to make me start responding to recruiters.

[Nylon]

I think Houston may be a distinct case as it's a hot recruitment market right now. Kirkland followed their match memo with a reminder to associates that there are recruitment bonuses available to anyone recommending a successful Houston hire - may be of interest to Houston associates whose firms don't match

[Anonymous User]

Has any firm with a big office in Philly announced a match yet? I'm wondering if Philly is going to 180 too (since we just made a big move to 160 less than a year ago).

[hoos89]

I think Houston may be a distinct case as it's a hot recruitment market right now. Kirkland followed their match memo with a reminder to associates that there are recruitment bonuses available to anyone recommending a successful Houston hire - may be of interest to Houston associates whose firms don't match

Yeah I'm not sure if this is still the case, but my memory is that Kirkland Houston was offering a $15k signing bonus for summers a couple OCIs ago. And I think there was also another $15k if you accepted a full-time offer after the summer. I think that was right after they opened the office though.

[Anonymous User]

Has any firm with a big office in Philly announced a match yet? I'm wondering if Philly is going to 180 too (since we just made a big move to 160 less than a year ago).

Above the Law had an article yesterday that had a quote from an anonymous Philly partner suggesting that they would not raise and a quote from Fox Rothschild partner who said he did not think Cravath was a competitor firm. I'd guess it depends on what MLB and Dechert do. Probably more so Dechert because it has a higher PPP and offers 160k in all markets. MLB doesn't offer 160k in a couple cities already. I'm guessing Dechert either goes 180k all offices or 180k all offices but Philly. It would suck because Philly is their home office, but that's exactly how it was before last year.

[Anonymous User]

V&E confirmed for all US offices

[Anonymous User]

V&E confirmed for all US offices

'Grats TX. Damn you, remaining CHI firms.

[Anonymous User]

V&E confirmed for all US offices

Huge. Hopefully this starts another wave.

[WinSome]

V&E confirmed for all US offices

Richmond to 180k lol. Granted that office only has one associate.

[Anonymous User]

Getting concerned that Covington's statement that this goes back to the previous model of higher NY compensation and to some degree this addresses COL may be the 'out' that some cheap firms use.

Associate salaries haven't changed in a decade, and yet our cost of attendance at the schools they demand has increased something of the order of 25% - whereas it used to be closer to $30k, it's now closer to $40-$50k. We are incurring substantially higher debt loads, and thus monthly payments and interest expense.

Further, other cities, such as the Bay Area, have seen more drastic COL impact that New York.

Profits per partner have increased, associate salaries have not moved, our expenses via debt service and COL have increased and Covington feels that this is a return to the old model and makes any sense?

I guaranty that the highly-regarded firms that fail to follow market will see a bigger lateral outflow post-bonus season and decreased interest at OCI. I may not be jumping ship right away if my firm fails to follow market, but I definitely will make the move in the future because it makes no sense to stay put when a large portion of the market, my peers, are being paid a higher base for the same work.

Here's to hoping more firms don't get cheap and weasel their way out of following market compensation.

Firms that have traditionally attracted top-shelf associates, e.g., Covington, may not survive this move. Virtually every single associate at Covington presently had the opportunity during 2L to go to a firm that is now meeting market pay nationally; they are all tacitly aware that they still have the opportunity to lateral, as well. If the Covington partnership does not meet market in all their offices by the end of next week, other firms will have a bonanza recruiting away all their top associates.

Seriously, though, look through their associate profiles; lots of T3 kids and median associate probably went to a T6. Also, not an insignificant number of HYPS undergrad plus YSH law school resumes. Imagine being a Harvard undergrad and YLS grad -- exactly how would you feel being paid sub-market?

[Anonymous User]

V&E continues to be the leader in TX. Amazing.

[soj]

.

[Anonymous User]

To the extent that this move to $180k was meant to differentiate NY from other offices, it clearly hasn't. NY will have to push to $200k to really differentiate itself from the rest of the country.

[soj]

.

[lhanvt13]

Lines at Subway outside CovingTTTon looking longer than usual.

Give each person $1.80 "to help with the hard times"

[Anonymous User]

V&E continues to be the leader in TX. Amazing.

Ha. I don't think I'd go that far. They matched after:

Weil
Willkie
STB
Kirkland
Skadden
Winston
Quinn

They're just trying not to get destroyed in OCI (already on shaky ground given rate of no-offers last year) and by laterals leaving for the bigger national firms.

[Mack.Hambleton]

V&E confirmed for all US offices

dope

[Big Shrimpin]

Lines at Subway outside CovingTTTon looking longer than usual.

sad

[Abbie Doobie]

Jones Day had a very good record at SCOTUS last year.

sounds like a good excuse not to match: gotta pay for them scotus clerkship bonuses. their comp structure is generally shit anyway. plus this:

Jones Day is such a bullshit firm.

[Br3v]

Lines at Subway outside CovingTTTon looking longer than usual.

sad

I knew Subway valued top tier management but I didn't think GMs made that much. Are they leaving their time at Cov off their resumes?

[Anonymous User]

Any rumblings from Sidley Chicago?

[Big Shrimpin]

Lines at Subway outside CovingTTTon looking longer than usual.

sad

I knew Subway valued top tier management but I didn't think GMs made that much. Are they leaving their time at Cov off their resumes?

probably

wouldn't want the stain of CovingTTTon to run an otherwise sterling rezzie

might not be an issue at Quiznos tbh tho

[Anonymous User]

Any rumblings from Sidley Chicago?

Seriously. They can (PPP >$2m) and they should (KE, Skadden, f'ing Winston already).

[Anonymous User]

Getting concerned that Covington's statement that this goes back to the previous model of higher NY compensation and to some degree this addresses COL may be the 'out' that some cheap firms use.

Associate salaries haven't changed in a decade, and yet our cost of attendance at the schools they demand has increased something of the order of 25% - whereas it used to be closer to $30k, it's now closer to $40-$50k. We are incurring substantially higher debt loads, and thus monthly payments and interest expense.

Further, other cities, such as the Bay Area, have seen more drastic COL impact that New York.

Profits per partner have increased, associate salaries have not moved, our expenses via debt service and COL have increased and Covington feels that this is a return to the old model and makes any sense?

I guaranty that the highly-regarded firms that fail to follow market will see a bigger lateral outflow post-bonus season and decreased interest at OCI. I may not be jumping ship right away if my firm fails to follow market, but I definitely will make the move in the future because it makes no sense to stay put when a large portion of the market, my peers, are being paid a higher base for the same work.

Here's to hoping more firms don't get cheap and weasel their way out of following market compensation.

Firms that have traditionally attracted top-shelf associates, e.g., Covington, may not survive this move. Virtually every single associate at Covington presently had the opportunity during 2L to go to a firm that is now meeting market pay nationally; they are all tacitly aware that they still have the opportunity to lateral, as well. If the Covington partnership does not meet market in all their offices by the end of next week, other firms will have a bonanza recruiting away all their top associates.

Seriously, though, look through their associate profiles; lots of T3 kids and median associate probably went to a T6. Also, not an insignificant number of HYPS undergrad plus YSH law school resumes. Imagine being a Harvard undergrad and YLS grad -- exactly how would you feel being paid sub-market?

Was thinking something similar. Also - V&E moving has pretty much torpedoed Covinttton's chances as stemming the tide.