V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

It is ok to ask about pro bono at a second visit or offer dinner though right? (Also questions about work life balance, hours, and stuff like that?)

Fine to do it then, though would ask it of the more junior folks only just in general.

Here's the thing - we get it. Many of you went to law school instead of business school, law instead of finance, etc., because you have a bleeding heart and you want to save the world. Many of us did too once upon a time.

But while we (and most of our peers) "value" pro bono, each hour you spend saving a whale is an opportunity cost to me. I don't want you to be torn between a client losing his home and my closing. I want you focused on getting things done for me and my clients.

If I ask you about whether you'd be interested in my pro bono program, frankly I'd rather hear you say something like "well, while I appreciate that I may have some great opportunities to do pro bono here, I'm much more interested in your bank finance practice."

Firms tell you that we value pro bono because we know that you value pro bono. Some firms, and some partners, really do value pro bono. Even I do in theory. But in reality, I want you working on my stuff with the level of commitment and dedication it takes to get my stuff done right, well, and quickly, with as few distractions as possible.

[Anonymous User]

@ pro bono guy, you wouldn't happen to be an 0L or a fresh new 1L would you? Maybe you should just listen to the V15 partner when he implies that asking about pro bono opportunities is a really, really bad idea at a callback.

You can think that sucks all you want and bitch about the big firms operate, but don't question the fuckin partner's assertion that it's an awful question.

lol. i think everyone understands what the partner said. the question is why is it bad, which you seem to be unable to comprehend.

and y u mad tho? lawlz

He's mad--or at least, acting mad--because on some level he thinks he can win favor with a high-status person--a big fancy partner person--by publicly scorning those who dare question him. It's a very primitive instinct that probably evolved when our chimp-like ancestors lived in violently enforced social hierarchies.

[Danger Zone]

@ pro bono guy, you wouldn't happen to be an 0L or a fresh new 1L would you? Maybe you should just listen to the V15 partner when he implies that asking about pro bono opportunities is a really, really bad idea at a callback.

You can think that sucks all you want and bitch about the big firms operate, but don't question the fuckin partner's assertion that it's an awful question.

lol. i think everyone understands what the partner said. the question is why is it bad, which you seem to be unable to comprehend.

and y u mad tho? lawlz

He's mad--or at least, acting mad--because on some level he thinks he can win favor with a high-status person--a big fancy partner person--by publicly scorning those who dare question him. It's a very primitive instinct that probably evolved when our chimp-like ancestors lived in violently enforced social hierarchies.

It's been happening a lot lately in this thread.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on White & Case NYC expecting a nearly 100% increase in summer class size this year?

E: Please and thank you.

[Anonymous User]

I have an offer from a midsize firm but the pay is really low (only 60% of what a peer firm would pay). This firm has an across the board salary structure and pays that amount for all incoming juniors, or they say they do, so this is basically the pay. If I get an offer at a peer firm doing almost identical work for double the pay, do they general price match or do they just keep making the same offer until someone takes it?

[Anonymous User]

At a callback interview, a partner seemed very busy and distracted--he spent the first 3 to 5 minutes texting someone back on the phone, and ended the interview with a 2-minute text. Throughout the interview, he barely asked questions, transitioned quickly to "do you have any questions for me?" I got the hint that he was really busy and wanted to conclude, but nevertheless tried to ask one or two questions about the firm.

My question is the following: From a partner's perspective, how would you have interacted a candidate based on this circumstance? This feels like an impossible scenario, where an interviewee has to climb an insurmountable hill. How would an interviewee do "well?"

[Anonymous User]

At a callback interview, a partner seemed very busy and distracted--he spent the first 3 to 5 minutes texting someone back on the phone, and ended the interview with a 2-minute text. Throughout the interview, he barely asked questions, transitioned quickly to "do you have any questions for me?" I got the hint that he was really busy and wanted to conclude, but nevertheless tried to ask one or two questions about the firm.

My question is the following: From a partner's perspective, how would you have interacted a candidate based on this circumstance? This feels like an impossible scenario, where an interviewee has to climb an insurmountable hill. How would an interviewee do "well?"

I have no idea how you would surmount this. I had a partner take a 15 min call in the middle of my interview. Obviously no offer. Sometimes people get busy. This always translates to a bad outcome for the person interviewing.

[Anonymous User]

At a callback interview, a partner seemed very busy and distracted--he spent the first 3 to 5 minutes texting someone back on the phone, and ended the interview with a 2-minute text. Throughout the interview, he barely asked questions, transitioned quickly to "do you have any questions for me?" I got the hint that he was really busy and wanted to conclude, but nevertheless tried to ask one or two questions about the firm.

My question is the following: From a partner's perspective, how would you have interacted a candidate based on this circumstance? This feels like an impossible scenario, where an interviewee has to climb an insurmountable hill. How would an interviewee do "well?"

I have no idea how you would surmount this. I had a partner take a 15 min call in the middle of my interview. Obviously no offer. Sometimes people get busy. This always translates to a bad outcome for the person interviewing.

Sigh... Yeah it sucked. This was my first choice firm, and I feel like I had pretty good interviews with 3/4 of my interviewers (apart from this particular partner). He looked at the phone without even seeing my resume, so at least I know it wasn't something on there that turned him off. Nevertheless, it was quick and rushed, and I felt pretty insecure afterwards.

[rpupkin]

At a callback interview, a partner seemed very busy and distracted--he spent the first 3 to 5 minutes texting someone back on the phone, and ended the interview with a 2-minute text. Throughout the interview, he barely asked questions, transitioned quickly to "do you have any questions for me?" I got the hint that he was really busy and wanted to conclude, but nevertheless tried to ask one or two questions about the firm.

My question is the following: From a partner's perspective, how would you have interacted a candidate based on this circumstance? This feels like an impossible scenario, where an interviewee has to climb an insurmountable hill. How would an interviewee do "well?"

I have no idea how you would surmount this. I had a partner take a 15 min call in the middle of my interview. Obviously no offer. Sometimes people get busy. This always translates to a bad outcome for the person interviewing.

The bolded passages are toxic. You should not assume "no offer" just because an interviewer is distracted. Remain polite and engaged. If you end up not chatting much, that's fine; you'll have plenty of other opportunities for conversations with other interviewers. Move on and stay positive.

[Anonymous User]

At a callback interview, a partner seemed very busy and distracted--he spent the first 3 to 5 minutes texting someone back on the phone, and ended the interview with a 2-minute text. Throughout the interview, he barely asked questions, transitioned quickly to "do you have any questions for me?" I got the hint that he was really busy and wanted to conclude, but nevertheless tried to ask one or two questions about the firm.

My question is the following: From a partner's perspective, how would you have interacted a candidate based on this circumstance? This feels like an impossible scenario, where an interviewee has to climb an insurmountable hill. How would an interviewee do "well?"

I have no idea how you would surmount this. I had a partner take a 15 min call in the middle of my interview. Obviously no offer. Sometimes people get busy. This always translates to a bad outcome for the person interviewing.

The bolded passages are toxic. You should not assume "no offer" just because an interviewer is distracted. Remain polite and engaged. If you end up not chatting much, that's fine; you'll have plenty of other opportunities for conversations with other interviewers. Move on and stay positive.

Thanks, kind stranger. I'll keep hope.

I hope I didn't hijack this thread to make it a weepy one. My original question still stands: How does an interviewee recover from this nightmare scenario?

[rpupkin]

I hope I didn't hijack this thread to make it a weepy one. My original question still stands: How does an interviewee recover from this nightmare scenario?

There's nothing to "recover" from. You encountered a lawyer who, for whatever reason, didn't have the time to direct his full attention to you. It happens; it's not a "nightmare scenario." As I suggested, the best way to handle the situation is to remain polite, engaged, and positive.

[Anonymous User]

what should you do if you get no offered from 2l summer? how should you address the offer question in interviews.

[itbdvorm]

Thoughts on White & Case NYC expecting a nearly 100% increase in summer class size this year?

E: Please and thank you.

Surprised. Have they made a bunch of lateral hires recently? Good for them.

[itbdvorm]

I have an offer from a midsize firm but the pay is really low (only 60% of what a peer firm would pay). This firm has an across the board salary structure and pays that amount for all incoming juniors, or they say they do, so this is basically the pay. If I get an offer at a peer firm doing almost identical work for double the pay, do they general price match or do they just keep making the same offer until someone takes it?

I would doubt it. If they got you to take the job, presumably they'd get others as well. Might be different if you started and were a star, but at this stage you're basically fungible.

[itbdvorm]

I hope I didn't hijack this thread to make it a weepy one. My original question still stands: How does an interviewee recover from this nightmare scenario?

There's nothing to "recover" from. You encountered a lawyer who, for whatever reason, didn't have the time to direct his full attention to you. It happens; it's not a "nightmare scenario." As I suggested, the best way to handle the situation is to remain polite, engaged, and positive.

I agree. Just frankly dealt with this situation recently and absolutely recommended the candidate for an offer. The reality is that we're now interviewing tons of candidates (because law schools are being ridiculous and moving up OCI insanely early) during the last two weeks of August. This is traditionally a time when most lawyers get away (really one of the only times of the year we can count on things being somewhat quiet), and the ones who are here are pretty busy (especially this year, it's really nuts). I'd almost be more worried if you were meeting with a transactional partner who WASN'T checking his/her phone the whole time (exaggeration, but still).

So rpupkin is completely right. Be earnest, polite, engaged and enthusiastic. If he/she engages with you about the distraction, use that as a conversation point. This is someone doing the job you're trying to get hired for at the highest level - surely you can find a way to politely discuss it without being overly intrusive

[Hopefullitassociate]

Current graduate about to start at a V50 firm. I was set on litigation and was promised it at the end of last summer, but just found out that I was placed in a smaller corporate group due to litigation work slowing down. If I work for a year in this smaller group, how much has the litigation ship sailed for me? Thank you so much.

[itbdvorm]

Current graduate about to start at a V50 firm. I was set on litigation and was promised it at the end of last summer, but just found out that I was placed in a smaller corporate group due to litigation work slowing down. If I work for a year in this smaller group, how much has the litigation ship sailed for me? Thank you so much.

Not great, but doable. I would work as hard as you can to get litigation assignments anyway and try to rotate out after a few months.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on White & Case NYC expecting a nearly 100% increase in summer class size this year?

E: Please and thank you.

Surprised. Have they made a bunch of lateral hires recently? Good for them.

Thanks for the response! They at had a ~60% increase in laterals from 2014 to 2015, but 2016 is listed as TBD on NALP and I'm not sure where else to get this info to be honest. Would this make you worried about post-summer offer rates or cold offer rates? I apologize for my 2L neuroticism.

[itbdvorm]

Thoughts on White & Case NYC expecting a nearly 100% increase in summer class size this year?

E: Please and thank you.

Surprised. Have they made a bunch of lateral hires recently? Good for them.

Thanks for the response! They at had a ~60% increase in laterals from 2014 to 2015, but 2016 is listed as TBD on NALP and I'm not sure where else to get this info to be honest. Would this make you worried about post-summer offer rates or cold offer rates? I apologize for my 2L neuroticism.

To be clear, when I refer to laterals above I mean lateral partners - people with business that needs to be serviced

I wouldn't be particularly nervous, though I would ask some questions. For example, was their class last year same, bigger, smaller than normal?

[Anonymous User]

I have an offer from a midsize firm but the pay is really low (only 60% of what a peer firm would pay). This firm has an across the board salary structure and pays that amount for all incoming juniors, or they say they do, so this is basically the pay. If I get an offer at a peer firm doing almost identical work for double the pay, do they general price match or do they just keep making the same offer until someone takes it?

I would doubt it. If they got you to take the job, presumably they'd get others as well. Might be different if you started and were a star, but at this stage you're basically fungible.

Thank you so much for doing this. You have no idea how much we appreciate inside tips like this.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Shearman v. Willkie for someone fairly dead set on litigation? I feel like Shearman has more general prestige (whatever thats worth), but Willkie's litigation practices seem to be ranked higher.

Thanks for doing this by the way, this thread is amazing.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Shearman v. Willkie for someone fairly dead set on litigation? I feel like Shearman has more general prestige, but Willkie's litigation practices seem to be ranked higher.

Thanks for doing this by the way, this thread is amazing.

I have that the exact same question! Can you also add Hogan to that list? (also interested in litigation)

[Anonymous User]

Can you give me your thoughts on Skadden (Chi) v. Kirkland (Chi)? I want to do transactional work but I've only really done M&A and some capital markets in my first summer, so I can't say I want to do public deals vs. PE deals and from what I understand that could be a deciding factor. Also, how do lateral/exit options compare here? Any insight would be appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Shearman v. Willkie for someone fairly dead set on litigation? I feel like Shearman has more general prestige (whatever thats worth), but Willkie's litigation practices seem to be ranked higher.

Thanks for doing this by the way, this thread is amazing.

I made the same decision a few years ago. Just pick the one you liked more. I would have been just as happy picking the other one. If there's a particular industry that one does vs that other that you have a particular interest in, do that

Also do a revisit and meet more people

[Anonymous User]

A quick perspective on the pro bono question. I had 4 call backs last week, asked about pro bono in all of them and got an offer at each firm. I think for litigation folks it may be a bit different because pro bono is an easy way for you to get experience the firm wants you to have but can't give you through paying client work. Obviously this is different firm to firm, but if you're litigation and you're interested in doing some pro bono work to boost your skills early on, you don't really want to work somewhere that's going to ding you because you asked about pro bono (especially if they promote it heavily on their website and other marketing materials geared towards recruits).