NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Meh. As long as they match today (w/ bonus) I would call this a minor annoyance that I'll forget about in 6 months.

I will remember it at review time.

[Anonymous User]

LET TODAY BE THE DAY!

[Anonymous User]

Meh. As long as they match today (w/ bonus) I would call this a minor annoyance that I'll forget about in 6 months.

I will remember it at review time.

Same. Will it cause me to totally tank surveys, etc.? Of course not. But how else should we review the firm on issues like "Compensation" and "Transparency"? The firm has shown a total lack of transparency or commitment to showing associates that they're valued and worth being compensated at the same levels as peer and (at this point) sub-peer firms.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your chart NakedPowerOrgan. Am I the only one who has never heard of Fish & Richardson and Fragomen?

Fish & Richardson is a prominent IP boutique, so if you aren't in the patent world it's not weird you haven't heard of them.

I believe the Fragomen are a group from the desert planet in Dune. Weird that they started a law firm, but whatever.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your chart NakedPowerOrgan. Am I the only one who has never heard of Fish & Richardson and Fragomen?

Fish & Richardson is a prominent IP boutique, so if you aren't in the patent world it's not weird you haven't heard of them.

I believe the Fragomen are a group from the desert planet in Dune. Weird that they started a law firm, but whatever.

Oh yes I'm not in IP although I wish I had gone into it. It's a more cerebral crowd. The chart says Fragomen has a $1.98 million PPP. I googled them and all I see is an immigration firm? That can't be that profitable. Oh well.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your chart NakedPowerOrgan. Am I the only one who has never heard of Fish & Richardson and Fragomen?

Fish & Richardson is a prominent IP boutique, so if you aren't in the patent world it's not weird you haven't heard of them.

I believe the Fragomen are a group from the desert planet in Dune. Weird that they started a law firm, but whatever.

Oh yes I'm not in IP although I wish I had gone into it. It's a more cerebral crowd. The chart says Fragomen has a $1.98 million PPP. I googled them and all I see is an immigration firm? That can't be that profitable. Oh well.

Lots of corporations hire people from out of the country and thus may require services for ensuring that proper visas can be obtained, etc. Not the most exciting area of the law, but I imagine as someone mentioned above that it can be highly leveraged work with a few relationship partners bringing in massive amounts of high volume corporate work.

[Anonymous User]

Where can I find a comprehensive list of the firms that have matched so far?

[Anonymous User]

Where can I find a comprehensive list of the firms that have matched so far?

I think they finally updated this: https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/salary- ... ises-2018/

Unless they got distracted again by writing about Kennedy's retirement under the misapprehension that literally anyone goes to ATL for legal analysis.

[NakedPowerOrgan]

Thanks for your chart NakedPowerOrgan. Am I the only one who has never heard of Fish & Richardson and Fragomen?

I've been doing NYC biglaw corporate work for four years and went to a T14 school, and pulling the data for that list is the first time I've heard of, as far as I can remember, Alston & Bird, Fragomen, hogan lovells, and Fish & Richardson. It's interesting. The longer you practice in a particular city and in a particular practice area, the more insulated that your professional bubble becomes and the less you care about general rankings like the Vault 100 -- not that anybody should care that much about those types of rankings at any point. I don't think I've heard the words "Williams & Connolly" since law school and was surprised that there's a V25 firm (Hogan, which has virtually no presence in the work I do) that I hadn't even heard of. Then again, there are probably firms that I constantly work across from and think of as top-tier A+ firms that a tax associate in Miami or a litigation associate in Palo Alto hasn't heard of.

[Anonymous User]

Whatever you do, don't go to Fragomen. Not only is their pay below market from everything I gathered, my experience with them has been they're racist. Their PPP is so high because of extensive utilization of contract attorneys. At the office I worked at, they tended to hire laterals from small local firms and suddenly and inexplicably fired 2 associates during the very short time I was there (4 months). A few years back I was unemployed and had to be a contract attorney very briefly. I worked in a major Fragomen office and that year around cap season they hired several dozen contract attorneys to do virtually the same work as the associates (mindless filling out of visa applications). Since contract attorneys saw they were working as hard if not harder than Associates for much lower pay and no benefits, morale was low and they churned out shit work product.

To make matters worse, for whatever reason they decided to interview people for a full time position and only chose contract attorneys from a certain cohort that came in at the same time. Of that cohort of about a dozen attorneys, they interviewed every caucasian attorney (mostly K-JDs, and every single one came from 2 local and unranked law schools) and declined to interview every minority attorney, some of whom went to top 30 law schools and at least one of whom had immigration law experience. They were running an immigration firm, but totally racist.

[Anonymous User]

Sounds like you work there. No word whatsoever from partners? Are they at least aware all their peer firms have moved significantly ahead of them in salary? What about the summer associates? As of this coming Monday they will be underpaid relative to their friends at all other firms

I'm not a Boies associate, but from WH, and can confirm that no official word whatsoever, and whatever unofficial word has been distinctly unhelpful and not promising. I'm sure they are aware of the shift in the market, but at the moment they show little above disinterest.

What is the “unofficial word” there?

That raises and bonuses aren’t coming and the firm will do some hand waving about how they’ll make it up to us later.

That would be pretty surprising. As someone at a smaller Boston firm, WH failing to match Ropes and Goodwin seems hard to believe. I always think of them as being on the same level.

I'm sure raises are coming, but I can see bonuses being delayed until end of the year a la Jenner.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your chart NakedPowerOrgan. Am I the only one who has never heard of Fish & Richardson and Fragomen?

I've been doing NYC biglaw corporate work for four years and went to a T14 school, and pulling the data for that list is the first time I've heard of, as far as I can remember, Alston & Bird, Fragomen, Hogan Lovells, and Fish & Richardson. It's interesting. The longer you practice in a particular city and in a particular practice area, the more insulated that your professional bubble becomes and the less you care about general rankings like the Vault 100 -- not that anybody should care that much about those types of rankings at any point. I don't think I've heard the words "Williams & Connolly" since law school and was surprised that there's a V25 firm (Hogan, which has virtually no presence in the work I do) that I hadn't even heard of. Then again, there are probably firms that I constantly work across from and think of as top-tier A+ firms that a tax associate in Miami or a litigation associate in Palo Alto hasn't heard of.

Genuinely surprised you had never heard of Alston & Bird and hogan lovells in NYC, especially during law school like you did with Williams & Connolly. Those are pretty popular firms that many T14 people head to, I'd think at least a few of your peers would mention them as being on their radar.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure raises are coming, but I can see bonuses being delayed until end of the year a la Jenner.

lol at bonuses coming to Jenner at the end of the year. re-read that statement, noway they are getting the market summer ontop of the market end of year bonus.

if WH do that, that's below-market, and are no longer a top firm.

[Anonymous User]

Alston & Bird raised, but individual e-mails so not clear what classes/offices got how much. Also not clear whether they're doing summer bonuses...e-mail was very opaque.

[Anonymous User]

Alston & Bird raised, but individual e-mails so not clear what classes/offices got how much. Also not clear whether they're doing summer bonuses...e-mail was very opaque.

A&B raise confirmed. They matched the amount of increase in all offices, but the Atlanta/Charlotte was already on a different scale and is still under NYC market. New Atlanta scale is $165. Bonus language wasn't clear whether the bonus would be this summer or at the end of the year.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure raises are coming, but I can see bonuses being delayed until end of the year a la Jenner.

lol at bonuses coming to Jenner at the end of the year. re-read that statement, noway they are getting the market summer ontop of the market end of year bonus.

if WH do that, that's below-market, and are no longer a top firm.

Any Jenner associate banking on actually getting a summer-bonus-level add-on at the end of the year is a fool.

[Anonymous User]

Hearing that A&B's raise incrementally matched the Milbank move (i.e. 10k, 10k, 10k, 20k, 20k, 25k, 25k, 25k). Can anyone confirm?

Edit: Confirmation comment came in as I entered this.

[Anonymous User]

LOL @ the silence from Greenberg after its rush to publish an op-ed explaining why not all (if any!) of their associates are worth giving raises/bonuses to.

[Anonymous User]

WilmerHale folks were holding out hope for a lunch time announcement. Nothing. This is literally all anyone is talking about and folks are seriously pissed at this point.

[Anonymous User]

I am currently pending for a lateral position, about a week out after a third interview, at one of the firms that just matched within the last couple days. Very favorable feedback during and after the interview.

What are the chances that a reluctant match could affect a lateral’s candidacy (ie belt tightening)?

FWIW it’s been a bit over a week and I haven’t heard anything.

Relatedly, what are the chances that this firmwide raise could affect how quickly they get back to me?

Same poster seeking response, if anybody has an opinion. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

WilmerHale folks were holding out hope for a lunch time announcement. Nothing. This is literally all anyone is talking about and folks are seriously pissed at this point.

Literally any newly V20 WH associate to any other V20 associate

[NakedPowerOrgan]

Thanks for your chart NakedPowerOrgan. Am I the only one who has never heard of Fish & Richardson and Fragomen?

I've been doing NYC biglaw corporate work for four years and went to a T14 school, and pulling the data for that list is the first time I've heard of, as far as I can remember, Alston & Bird, Fragomen, Hogan Lovells, and Fish & Richardson. It's interesting. The longer you practice in a particular city and in a particular practice area, the more insulated that your professional bubble becomes and the less you care about general rankings like the Vault 100 -- not that anybody should care that much about those types of rankings at any point. I don't think I've heard the words "Williams & Connolly" since law school and was surprised that there's a V25 firm (Hogan, which has virtually no presence in the work I do) that I hadn't even heard of. Then again, there are probably firms that I constantly work across from and think of as top-tier A+ firms that a tax associate in Miami or a litigation associate in Palo Alto hasn't heard of.

Genuinely surprised you had never heard of Alston & Bird and Hogan Lovells in NYC, especially during law school like you did with Williams & Connolly. Those are pretty popular firms that many T14 people head to, I'd think at least a few of your peers would mention them as being on their radar.

All the DC people I knew in law school were gunning for Williams & Connolly, Covington, or Kellogg, and I can't think of anybody in my class who went to Atlanta.

[Anonymous User]

WilmerHale folks were holding out hope for a lunch time announcement. Nothing. This is literally all anyone is talking about and folks are seriously pissed at this point.

WilmerFail waiting until 5pm on a Friday to announce Patterson Belknap scale and nobonus.

[Anonymous User]

Hearing that A&B's raise incrementally matched the Milbank move (i.e. 10k, 10k, 10k, 20k, 20k, 25k, 25k, 25k). Can anyone confirm?

Edit: Confirmation comment came in as I entered this.

Does this mean the new Atlanta A&B scale is: 165, 175, 185, 205, 230, 250, 265?

[Anonymous User]

Can WIlmerfail plz raise in all offices so that it puts pressure on Hogan's Denver office to raise?