Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[HenryHankPalmer]

I find the lack of movement disturbing.

[Anonymous User]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

[Anonymous User]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

*who are NOW wondering...

[Anonymous User]

Rumors I’ve heard (maybe unfounded, who knows) is that DPW is considering more targeted group-by-group or hours based bonuses, which is controversial among their partnership and causing delay.

[Anonymous User]

Rumors I’ve heard (maybe unfounded, who knows) is that DPW is considering more targeted group-by-group or hours based bonuses, which is controversial among their partnership and causing delay.

lol if this "fuck you" is what DPW has kept everyone waiting for. It would definitely be a typical biglaw out of touch boomer screw up so it seems reasonably likely to happen

[ExpOriental]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

Incredible insight from one of our precious anons, as per usual

If DPW just matches, we'll get a handful of breathless (probably anon) posts about how it's TTT and doomed forever, then everyone will forget a week later and never think about it again.

Big lols at the bolded btw

[Anonymous User]

Rumors I’ve heard (maybe unfounded, who knows) is that DPW is considering more targeted group-by-group or hours based bonuses, which is controversial among their partnership and causing delay.

I once said DPW will never abandon lockstep. So at the risk of ignoring the old adage again -- DPW would never do this. They needed to go to modified lockstep to keep up with peers in lateral partner recruiting and not get all their partners poached. The associate lockstep system is literally the hallmark of the "DPW way" (stolen from Cravath obviously). I honestly don't see them changing that.

[Anonymous User]

Rumors I’ve heard (maybe unfounded, who knows) is that DPW is considering more targeted group-by-group or hours based bonuses, which is controversial among their partnership and causing delay.

DPW top boss Neil Barr is a tax attorney so does that mean tax gets the highest bonuses?

[unlicensedpotato]

Rumors I’ve heard (maybe unfounded, who knows) is that DPW is considering more targeted group-by-group or hours based bonuses, which is controversial among their partnership and causing delay.

Whether it's DPW or someone else, it wouldn't be surprising to see at least some firms impose hours requirements on a spring/special bonus, so get those annualized hours over 2k folks.

[Anonymous User]

Rumors I’ve heard (maybe unfounded, who knows) is that DPW is considering more targeted group-by-group or hours based bonuses, which is controversial among their partnership and causing delay.

DPW top boss Neil Barr is a tax attorney so does that mean tax gets the highest bonuses?

Aren't top guys always from less profitable practices? That's why they're in management instead of making money.

[Anonymous User]

WHERE IS MY MONEY?

[bigbeau]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

Incredible insight from one of our precious anons, as per usual

If DPW just matches, we'll get a handful of breathless (probably anon) posts about how it's TTT and doomed forever, then everyone will forget a week later and never think about it again.

Big lols at the bolded btw

I like the part where the associates are wondering what compensation will look like over the next year. Will a 5th year make 305k or will they make 325k???? How is that person supposed to focus without knowing they have that 20k?? Are they just supposed to budget for the amount they're currently making? So many questions I need to ask DPW.

All jokes aside, it's not like we don't know that DPW is matching. DPW associates should just assume they have the Milbank scale until any news otherwise...

[Anonymous User]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

Incredible insight from one of our precious anons, as per usual

If DPW just matches, we'll get a handful of breathless (probably anon) posts about how it's TTT and doomed forever, then everyone will forget a week later and never think about it again.

Big lols at the bolded btw

I like the part where the associates are wondering what compensation will look like over the next year. Will a 5th year make 305k or will they make 325k???? How is that person supposed to focus without knowing they have that 20k?? Are they just supposed to budget for the amount they're currently making? So many questions I need to ask DPW.

All jokes aside, it's not like we don't know that DPW is matching. DPW associates should just assume they have the Milbank scale until any news otherwise...

(1) Anon exists for a reason. Put on your big boy pants and figure it out.

(2) Every comp cycle and every bonus season, this forum fills with folks revisiting which firms have done what over the previous years. The fact that the first boomer above is lurking in this thread policing posts where so many are discussing what DPW and others have done in past cycles shows that the idea that people will "never think about it again" is objectively ignorant.

(3) People have families and life decisions to make. If you're single and billing your days away and $20k is garbage to you, that privilege is wonderful, and you should enjoy it. But others have children and significant others and responsibilities outside of employment. That means making life choices that could be influenced by things like: how much will go into retirement this year; whether there's a significant comp increase that will be spread out across the entire year or come in the form of a bonus that could at least partially be collected in the next few months; how taking leave for the birth of a child and when would affect what money is received if that money is driven by hours.

(4) I'm sorry you're so frustrated. Keep coming back.

[Anonymous User]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

Incredible insight from one of our precious anons, as per usual

If DPW just matches, we'll get a handful of breathless (probably anon) posts about how it's TTT and doomed forever, then everyone will forget a week later and never think about it again.

Big lols at the bolded btw

I like the part where the associates are wondering what compensation will look like over the next year. Will a 5th year make 305k or will they make 325k???? How is that person supposed to focus without knowing they have that 20k?? Are they just supposed to budget for the amount they're currently making? So many questions I need to ask DPW.

All jokes aside, it's not like we don't know that DPW is matching. DPW associates should just assume they have the Milbank scale until any news otherwise...

(1) Anon exists for a reason. Put on your big boy pants and figure it out.

(2) Every comp cycle and every bonus season, this forum fills with folks revisiting which firms have done what over the previous years. The fact that the first boomer above is lurking in this thread policing posts where so many are discussing what DPW and others have done in past cycles shows that the idea that people will "never think about it again" is objectively ignorant.

(3) People have families and life decisions to make. If you're single and billing your days away and $20k is garbage to you, that privilege is wonderful, and you should enjoy it. But others have children and significant others and responsibilities outside of employment. That means making life choices that could be influenced by things like: how much will go into retirement this year; whether there's a significant comp increase that will be spread out across the entire year or come in the form of a bonus that could at least partially be collected in the next few months; how taking leave for the birth of a child and when would affect what money is received if that money is driven by hours.

(4) I'm sorry you're so frustrated. Keep coming back.

Can you guys not do this. I'm so tired to TLS news / comp threads getting fucked by two autists deciding they need to do an internet dick contest and have a parliamentary debate. No one gives a shit. Discuss comp. news no one cares about either of your broader perspectives.

[bigbeau]

The longer DPW keeps associates distracted and in a state of uncertainty, the more it needs to do to justify the silence. DPW can easily undo its goodwill by matching or announcing something more but too weak to justify stringing everyone along. Because then it would just look like DPW had built up its influence just to flex on everyone, not to take care of associates, who are not wondering what compensation will look like over the next year, how to plan for the next year, and whether their firms will match and when.

Incredible insight from one of our precious anons, as per usual

If DPW just matches, we'll get a handful of breathless (probably anon) posts about how it's TTT and doomed forever, then everyone will forget a week later and never think about it again.

Big lols at the bolded btw

I like the part where the associates are wondering what compensation will look like over the next year. Will a 5th year make 305k or will they make 325k???? How is that person supposed to focus without knowing they have that 20k?? Are they just supposed to budget for the amount they're currently making? So many questions I need to ask DPW.

All jokes aside, it's not like we don't know that DPW is matching. DPW associates should just assume they have the Milbank scale until any news otherwise...

(1) Anon exists for a reason. Put on your big boy pants and figure it out.

(2) Every comp cycle and every bonus season, this forum fills with folks revisiting which firms have done what over the previous years. The fact that the first boomer above is lurking in this thread policing posts where so many are discussing what DPW and others have done in past cycles shows that the idea that people will "never think about it again" is objectively ignorant.

(3) People have families and life decisions to make. If you're single and billing your days away and $20k is garbage to you, that privilege is wonderful, and you should enjoy it. But others have children and significant others and responsibilities outside of employment. That means making life choices that could be influenced by things like: how much will go into retirement this year; whether there's a significant comp increase that will be spread out across the entire year or come in the form of a bonus that could at least partially be collected in the next few months; how taking leave for the birth of a child and when would affect what money is received if that money is driven by hours.

(4) I'm sorry you're so frustrated. Keep coming back.

Can you guys not do this. I'm so tired to TLS news / comp threads getting fucked by two autists deciding they need to do an internet dick contest and have a parliamentary debate. No one gives a shit. Discuss comp. news no one cares about either of your broader perspectives.

Sorry for arguing on a forum instead of talking about the fact that there's literally no news.

[Anonymous User]

No joke, whether my wedding this year has surf and turf or has just-turf is legit going to be decided by DPW’s next move. It’s a super privileged concern to the point of kind of sounding like parody, but is an example of where a special bonus or further salary increase is in fact impacting me. Gimme the lobster baby.

[jonanthony92]

No joke, whether my wedding this year has surf and turf or has just-turf is legit going to be decided by DPW’s next move. It’s a super privileged concern to the point of kind of sounding like parody, but is an example of where a special bonus or further salary increase is in fact impacting me. Gimme the lobster baby.

Neal, get this man his lobster

[Anonymous User]

Honestly anyone with a pulse gets promoted to VP

Usually I make significantly more than my biglaw peers in the same class year

This year I made a bonkers amount more

Are you a VP? According to Wall Street Oasis, which I thought is reasonably legit (not like a Glassdoor or whatever) IB VP associates make 200-225k base +50-150% of base in bonus. High end of those ranges is about $560k; as a BigLaw 6th year last year I made $490k; and people at K&E etc. made way more than that. Is WSO wrong or am I missing something?

VP and Associate are two different levels of seniority. In general, banking associate compensation exceeds that of biglaw. If someone graduated MBA, did 6 years of front office banking at a bulge or elite boutique, and makes under 560K then they probably suck.

Granted, lots of people at banks make way less than 560K, because so many people in NYC misrepresent themselves as front office investment bankers, when they’re actually doing “risk” or some other BS.

Hold up: (1) can you ballpark the difference bw a sixth year big law and “real” front office IB VP and (2) are those NYC VPs actually out earning their biglaw counterparts in non-NYC markets (correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there comparably fewer IB roles than biglaw roles outside the city)

lol at the ongoing cope by some attorneys ITT. We make less than our equivalent peers in the IB world. Deal.

This. Why do some people care so much about what these people at IB make?

I think it’s a golden child thing where people did all the “right” things and won all the gold stars and were their family’s pride and joy and always felt like they were winning life, then they look up from their redlines and data rooms and go “wait the dude I met in my math-requirement in college who I still follow on insta who shares stupid obnoxious memes all day is actually out earning me? That can’t be!”

Nah for me it's just curiosity/gossip. My IB friends can google my salary, it's not fair that I can't do the same with theirs!!! The people I know from my college who stuck in finance had much better grades than me, so I'm not sitting here like oh shoot if only I decided to be a banker!! I was a slacker and got bailed out by happening to have a great aptitude for the LSAT. I think most people in biglaw (at least in my V50 world, maybe different at V10) fit that description more than they do the gunner thing.

[NoLongerALurker]

Are you a VP? According to Wall Street Oasis, which I thought is reasonably legit (not like a Glassdoor or whatever) IB VP associates make 200-225k base +50-150% of base in bonus. High end of those ranges is about $560k; as a BigLaw 6th year last year I made $490k; and people at K&E etc. made way more than that. Is WSO wrong or am I missing something?

VP and Associate are two different levels of seniority. In general, banking associate compensation exceeds that of biglaw. If someone graduated MBA, did 6 years of front office banking at a bulge or elite boutique, and makes under 560K then they probably suck.

Granted, lots of people at banks make way less than 560K, because so many people in NYC misrepresent themselves as front office investment bankers, when they’re actually doing “risk” or some other BS.

Hold up: (1) can you ballpark the difference bw a sixth year big law and “real” front office IB VP and (2) are those NYC VPs actually out earning their biglaw counterparts in non-NYC markets (correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there comparably fewer IB roles than biglaw roles outside the city)

lol at the ongoing cope by some attorneys ITT. We make less than our equivalent peers in the IB world. Deal.

This. Why do some people care so much about what these people at IB make?

I think it’s a golden child thing where people did all the “right” things and won all the gold stars and were their family’s pride and joy and always felt like they were winning life, then they look up from their redlines and data rooms and go “wait the dude I met in my math-requirement in college who I still follow on insta who shares stupid obnoxious memes all day is actually out earning me? That can’t be!”

Nah for me it's just curiosity/gossip. My IB friends can google my salary, it's not fair that I can't do the same with theirs!!! The people I know from my college who stuck in finance had much better grades than me, so I'm not sitting here like oh shoot if only I decided to be a banker!! I was a slacker and got bailed out by happening to have a great aptitude for the LSAT. I think most people in biglaw (at least in my V50 world, maybe different at V10) fit that description more than they do the gunner thing.

Agree, actually. This describes me well.

[ElCuervo]

It is going to be sad when DPW announces and we all go our separate ways to never think about compensation or casually use disabilities as insults again. DPW is watching and doesn't want this to end. But all good things must come to an end.

Give us the lobster.

[Anonymous User]

VP and Associate are two different levels of seniority. In general, banking associate compensation exceeds that of biglaw. If someone graduated MBA, did 6 years of front office banking at a bulge or elite boutique, and makes under 560K then they probably suck.

Granted, lots of people at banks make way less than 560K, because so many people in NYC misrepresent themselves as front office investment bankers, when they’re actually doing “risk” or some other BS.

Hold up: (1) can you ballpark the difference bw a sixth year big law and “real” front office IB VP and (2) are those NYC VPs actually out earning their biglaw counterparts in non-NYC markets (correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there comparably fewer IB roles than biglaw roles outside the city)

lol at the ongoing cope by some attorneys ITT. We make less than our equivalent peers in the IB world. Deal.

This. Why do some people care so much about what these people at IB make?

I think it’s a golden child thing where people did all the “right” things and won all the gold stars and were their family’s pride and joy and always felt like they were winning life, then they look up from their redlines and data rooms and go “wait the dude I met in my math-requirement in college who I still follow on insta who shares stupid obnoxious memes all day is actually out earning me? That can’t be!”

Nah for me it's just curiosity/gossip. My IB friends can google my salary, it's not fair that I can't do the same with theirs!!! The people I know from my college who stuck in finance had much better grades than me, so I'm not sitting here like oh shoot if only I decided to be a banker!! I was a slacker and got bailed out by happening to have a great aptitude for the LSAT. I think most people in biglaw (at least in my V50 world, maybe different at V10) fit that description more than they do the gunner thing.

Agree, actually. This describes me well.

Ditto. Except I also tanked the LSAT, but transferred into a T14 and ended up at a V5. Stuck it out for 5 years, and am now at a V30. Not judging anyone who actually worked their asses off and feel underpaid compared to the finance alternatives. But I actually feel great as a 6th year who is about to rake in $500k+ this year. My alternative was a dead-end back office finance job in Ohio out of undergrad that paid $40k. I felt hugely out of place at my V5, but feel right at home at my current firm.

[ElCuervo]

Hold up: (1) can you ballpark the difference bw a sixth year big law and “real” front office IB VP and (2) are those NYC VPs actually out earning their biglaw counterparts in non-NYC markets (correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there comparably fewer IB roles than biglaw roles outside the city)

lol at the ongoing cope by some attorneys ITT. We make less than our equivalent peers in the IB world. Deal.

This. Why do some people care so much about what these people at IB make?

I think it’s a golden child thing where people did all the “right” things and won all the gold stars and were their family’s pride and joy and always felt like they were winning life, then they look up from their redlines and data rooms and go “wait the dude I met in my math-requirement in college who I still follow on insta who shares stupid obnoxious memes all day is actually out earning me? That can’t be!”

Nah for me it's just curiosity/gossip. My IB friends can google my salary, it's not fair that I can't do the same with theirs!!! The people I know from my college who stuck in finance had much better grades than me, so I'm not sitting here like oh shoot if only I decided to be a banker!! I was a slacker and got bailed out by happening to have a great aptitude for the LSAT. I think most people in biglaw (at least in my V50 world, maybe different at V10) fit that description more than they do the gunner thing.

Agree, actually. This describes me well.

Ditto. Except I also tanked the LSAT, but transferred into a T14 and ended up at a V5. Stuck it out for 5 years, and am now at a V30. Not judging anyone who actually worked their asses off and feel underpaid compared to the finance alternatives. But I actually feel great as a 6th year who is about to rake in $500k+ this year. My alternative was a dead-end back office finance job in Ohio out of undergrad that paid $40k. I felt hugely out of place at my V5, but feel right at home at my current firm.

Hey, congrats on grinding it out and making it happen. Old fashioned hustle.

[Anon-non-anon]

No joke, whether my wedding this year has surf and turf or has just-turf is legit going to be decided by DPW’s next move. It’s a super privileged concern to the point of kind of sounding like parody, but is an example of where a special bonus or further salary increase is in fact impacting me. Gimme the lobster baby.

Neal, get this man his lobster

GIVE HIM THE FUCKING LOBSTER, NEAL. HE'S GETTING MARRIED YOU MONSTER! Is he just supposed to have steak like a fucking v100 peasant!

[Anonymous User]

lol at the ongoing cope by some attorneys ITT. We make less than our equivalent peers in the IB world. Deal.

This. Why do some people care so much about what these people at IB make?

I think it’s a golden child thing where people did all the “right” things and won all the gold stars and were their family’s pride and joy and always felt like they were winning life, then they look up from their redlines and data rooms and go “wait the dude I met in my math-requirement in college who I still follow on insta who shares stupid obnoxious memes all day is actually out earning me? That can’t be!”

Nah for me it's just curiosity/gossip. My IB friends can google my salary, it's not fair that I can't do the same with theirs!!! The people I know from my college who stuck in finance had much better grades than me, so I'm not sitting here like oh shoot if only I decided to be a banker!! I was a slacker and got bailed out by happening to have a great aptitude for the LSAT. I think most people in biglaw (at least in my V50 world, maybe different at V10) fit that description more than they do the gunner thing.

Agree, actually. This describes me well.

Ditto. Except I also tanked the LSAT, but transferred into a T14 and ended up at a V5. Stuck it out for 5 years, and am now at a V30. Not judging anyone who actually worked their asses off and feel underpaid compared to the finance alternatives. But I actually feel great as a 6th year who is about to rake in $500k+ this year. My alternative was a dead-end back office finance job in Ohio out of undergrad that paid $40k. I felt hugely out of place at my V5, but feel right at home at my current firm.

Hey, congrats on grinding it out and making it happen. Old fashioned hustle.

Golden child/gossip/whatever, if IB will give me a bigger freaking gold star then I'd jump. But it seems like no one can/will detail realistic comp (besides saying "more") and simultaneously alay fears of getting Lathamed by the bank in recession

[Anonymous User]

Hold up: (1) can you ballpark the difference bw a sixth year big law and “real” front office IB VP and (2) are those NYC VPs actually out earning their biglaw counterparts in non-NYC markets (correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there comparably fewer IB roles than biglaw roles outside the city)

lol at the ongoing cope by some attorneys ITT. We make less than our equivalent peers in the IB world. Deal.

This. Why do some people care so much about what these people at IB make?

I think it’s a golden child thing where people did all the “right” things and won all the gold stars and were their family’s pride and joy and always felt like they were winning life, then they look up from their redlines and data rooms and go “wait the dude I met in my math-requirement in college who I still follow on insta who shares stupid obnoxious memes all day is actually out earning me? That can’t be!”

Nah for me it's just curiosity/gossip. My IB friends can google my salary, it's not fair that I can't do the same with theirs!!! The people I know from my college who stuck in finance had much better grades than me, so I'm not sitting here like oh shoot if only I decided to be a banker!! I was a slacker and got bailed out by happening to have a great aptitude for the LSAT. I think most people in biglaw (at least in my V50 world, maybe different at V10) fit that description more than they do the gunner thing.

Agree, actually. This describes me well.

Ditto. Except I also tanked the LSAT, but transferred into a T14 and ended up at a V5. Stuck it out for 5 years, and am now at a V30. Not judging anyone who actually worked their asses off and feel underpaid compared to the finance alternatives. But I actually feel great as a 6th year who is about to rake in $500k+ this year. My alternative was a dead-end back office finance job in Ohio out of undergrad that paid $40k. I felt hugely out of place at my V5, but feel right at home at my current firm.

Wow there's a lot of us out there. Didn't try in college, took a full ride at a local law school, worked in state gov't for a year then got lucky in a hiring boom and ended up at a V25. 5th year now and never thought I would make this much money in my life. Although also kind of depressing that this is probably the most money I will ever make in my life seeing as I'm about ready to head in-house.