Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Confirmed on WSGR per law.com a few weeks back. Willkie too. Why would anyone work at S&C when they are literally requiring associates to return 6 months prior to other firms and when the pandemic (hopefully) is just starting to wane and folks are finally able to enjoy something normal with long lost family and friends. Literally dumbfounded by this approach...

[Anonymous User]

Yes. WSGR 2022 and Wilkie too

[Anonymous User]

Everyone will have had an opportunity to get vaccinated by July. So if you’re hoping for that to delay it, I think you’ll be disappointed.

I'm not going to let Bill Gates download my brain data. I'll just keep working from home.

I'm willing to believe this if I can keep WFH.

[cisscum]

Yes. WSGR 2022 and Wilkie too

Is that based on the article or can someone from wsgr confirm

[Anonymous User]

I know this topic is firm heavy, but NYC gov attorneys have been getting emails this week about a return beginning 5/3.

The South African variant has been found in the US, so I want to hope that will change this absurd decision. But it’s BdB so logic usually doesn’t play a role.

[Anonymous User]

My non-NYC but major market v50 just said they’re expecting attorneys to be in the office “on average” about three days a week starting this July (depending on how the vaccine rollout goes, etc). It was a very loosely written email with no clear punishment etc for those that are uncomfortable going in. But it does, I think, portend for a relatively normal 5-day workweek again once safe/practicable. Even if just informally (i.e., if you mandate enough showing up, it’s going to look like you’re a slacker if you only show up 2-3 days a week).

[Anonymous User]

Geeze...that’s another brutal choice. Just can’t see the value or rationale of forcing people back in ASAP over the summer. Also contrary to peer firms. What market?

[cavalier1138]

Confirmed on WSGR per law.com a few weeks back. Willkie too. Why would anyone work at S&C when they are literally requiring associates to return 6 months prior to other firms and when the pandemic (hopefully) is just starting to wane and folks are finally able to enjoy something normal with long lost family and friends. Literally dumbfounded by this approach...

What does the bolded have to do with any of this?

The issue is that S&C seems to be jumping the gun and forcing associates back to the office before it's safe to go back. No one is going to put off reopening offices because they want you to have the chance to work remotely from family gatherings (this only applies to you weirdos who actually enjoy family gatherings).

[cisscum]

Confirmed on WSGR per law.com a few weeks back. Willkie too. Why would anyone work at S&C when they are literally requiring associates to return 6 months prior to other firms and when the pandemic (hopefully) is just starting to wane and folks are finally able to enjoy something normal with long lost family and friends. Literally dumbfounded by this approach...

What does the bolded have to do with any of this?

The issue is that S&C seems to be jumping the gun and forcing associates back to the office before it's safe to go back. No one is going to put off reopening offices because they want you to have the chance to work remotely from family gatherings (this only applies to you weirdos who actually enjoy family gatherings).

Speak for your self. Some of us don't really care about the pandemic and just don't want to go back to the office. I'll take any family gathering over having to sit in some crusty boomers office taking notes and smelling their halitosis.

[nixy]

I mean I think the vast majority of people don't want WFH to end, ever. The point is that employers don't care. It's not at all dumbfounding that firms would open up just when people can start living normal lives - that's the double-edged sword of vaccinations and the pandemic ending, if you can start living a normal life, you can go to the office again. It absolutely sucks, it's just not dumbfounding.

(At least, not on the basis that people can finally start living normal lives again. It's a bit dumbfounding to make people go back by July 5 on the basis that we're not out of the woods yet and a bunch of places are seeing cases go up again, so it seems premature to send people back for health reasons).

[cisscum]

I mean I think the vast majority of people don't want WFH to end, ever. The point is that employers don't care. It's not at all dumbfounding that firms would open up just when people can start living normal lives - that's the double-edged sword of vaccinations and the pandemic ending, if you can start living a normal life, you can go to the office again. It absolutely sucks, it's just not dumbfounding.

(At least, not on the basis that people can finally start living normal lives again. It's a bit dumbfounding to make people go back by July 5 on the basis that we're not out of the woods yet and a bunch of places are seeing cases go up again, so it seems premature to send people back for health reasons).

Of course employers (or at least many of them) don't want us working from home. Also I'm sure they'd prefer not to pay 1st years 190k but they do it because they need to attract talent. If there's enough demand for certain benefits it will come, maybe not at all firms but there will be some firms who will cede

[Anonymous User]

There is a very big difference between opening up the office on July 5 voluntarily and opening up the office then mandatorily. Point is most firms had record years and are surpassing that in the first quarter of 21. Many key mid-level, senior and NEP folks have during this time balanced children, extreme business and also had to relocate to handle those two things together. To say, things are better so now jam into an office at a time when people can finally exhale from this mess of a year is very tone deaf and shows what any firm that would take that approach thinks of the value of those employees. There are reasons firms like Ropes, Willkie, WSGR and many many other companies look at Labor Day - it’s because their employees (like the whole country) have been through hell and can hopefully enjoy something more normal for a summer (and if they want to go to the office more power to them). Point is firms have thrived on remote work and their is zero reason to force people to come back during what should be the first sign of relief in a year.

So the dichotomy seems to be some firms don’t trust their employees to WFH at all (my guess is S&C will also have no flexibility on WFH going forward if this is the approach) and firms that trust their employees and want to allow them some reprieve (on an optional basis) to enjoy the positives of WFH for a period of time when folks aren’t concerned about going out due to the pandemic.

I would certainly chose a firm in the later bunch as opposed to sitting alone in an office with my mask on on July 5, hopping onto a zoom call from the office with everyone else on said Zoom call still WFH. and being productive.

[nixy]

I mean I think the vast majority of people don't want WFH to end, ever. The point is that employers don't care. It's not at all dumbfounding that firms would open up just when people can start living normal lives - that's the double-edged sword of vaccinations and the pandemic ending, if you can start living a normal life, you can go to the office again. It absolutely sucks, it's just not dumbfounding.

(At least, not on the basis that people can finally start living normal lives again. It's a bit dumbfounding to make people go back by July 5 on the basis that we're not out of the woods yet and a bunch of places are seeing cases go up again, so it seems premature to send people back for health reasons).

Of course employers (or at least many of them) don't want us working from home. Also I'm sure they'd prefer not to pay 1st years 190k but they do it because they need to attract talent. If there's enough demand for certain benefits it will come, maybe not at all firms but there will be some firms who will cede

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that, and I'm not even saying firms will all ditch WFH - I think a lot will incorporate more of it going forward, even if not enough for everyone who wants to to live far away in cheaper COL areas. My point is only that firms that do want to open up their offices as soon as possible aren't going to hold off so employees can enjoy the summer with friends/family once restrictions are easing. They might dial it back if, as you suggest, they fear they're going to lose associates to other firms. But that would be because they care about the bottom line, not b/c they care about whether their associates get to spend time with family/friends.

[Anonymous User]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

[Sackboy]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

[Anonymous User]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

I think there is a split in partners who can’t wait to go back and those who love living in their vacation homes. What happens at any individual firm will depend on who happens to hold the most sway there.

Cravath has told us that they anticipate a return during the 2021-22 school year (so people with kids are on notice that they need to be in NY) but that the summer will be remote. I have heard through informal channels they think November (around when the next class of 1st years starts) is the likely return time.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath approach makes a lot of sense. Also partners, counsel and senior associates will be at vacation homes Thursday - Sunday going forward absent school obligations that hold them in place or when stuck in office for deal signings / closings even after return to office. Hybrid at 3 days in office is gold for those that can afford to keep a second place with a good office set up...

[Anonymous User]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

I think there is a split in partners who can’t wait to go back and those who love living in their vacation homes. What happens at any individual firm will depend on who happens to hold the most sway there.

Cravath has told us that they anticipate a return during the 2021-22 school year (so people with kids are on notice that they need to be in NY) but that the summer will be remote. I have heard through informal channels they think November (around when the next class of 1st years starts) is the likely return time.

Honestly, if the variants take hold... I'll be seeing you all remote in 2022.

[bwh8813]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

I think there is a split in partners who can’t wait to go back and those who love living in their vacation homes. What happens at any individual firm will depend on who happens to hold the most sway there.

Cravath has told us that they anticipate a return during the 2021-22 school year (so people with kids are on notice that they need to be in NY) but that the summer will be remote. I have heard through informal channels they think November (around when the next class of 1st years starts) is the likely return time.

Honestly, if the variants take hold... I'll be seeing you all remote in 2022.

Yeah, now they're saying people who have already had Covid or been vaccinated may still get infected with this NY variant. I'll just WFH permanently, thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

I think there is a split in partners who can’t wait to go back and those who love living in their vacation homes. What happens at any individual firm will depend on who happens to hold the most sway there.

Cravath has told us that they anticipate a return during the 2021-22 school year (so people with kids are on notice that they need to be in NY) but that the summer will be remote. I have heard through informal channels they think November (around when the next class of 1st years starts) is the likely return time.

Honestly, if the variants take hold... I'll be seeing you all remote in 2022.

Yeah, now they're saying people who have already had Covid or been vaccinated may still get infected with this NY variant. I'll just WFH permanently, thanks.

The last line would be extremely concerning, something to monitor if true.

[Anonymous User]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

I think there is a split in partners who can’t wait to go back and those who love living in their vacation homes. What happens at any individual firm will depend on who happens to hold the most sway there.

Cravath has told us that they anticipate a return during the 2021-22 school year (so people with kids are on notice that they need to be in NY) but that the summer will be remote. I have heard through informal channels they think November (around when the next class of 1st years starts) is the likely return time.

Honestly, if the variants take hold... I'll be seeing you all remote in 2022.

Yeah, now they're saying people who have already had Covid or been vaccinated may still get infected with this NY variant. I'll just WFH permanently, thanks.

The last line would be extremely concerning, something to monitor if true.

My firm told us that they’ll increase capacity to 35% on April 1. They also said they don’t have a firm return date yet.

[nealric]

Seriously doubt any firm is going to force anyone to come back this summer in NYC. Do you really think the boomer partners who have been weathering this in their Hamptons second homes are going to voluntarily leave the Hamptons during the best weather season there? No. It’s Labor Day or later for mandatory return IMO.

I actually think this is one of the more reasonable arguments for why most NYC/major market biglaw won't get back to in office work so quickly.

I think there is a split in partners who can’t wait to go back and those who love living in their vacation homes. What happens at any individual firm will depend on who happens to hold the most sway there.

Cravath has told us that they anticipate a return during the 2021-22 school year (so people with kids are on notice that they need to be in NY) but that the summer will be remote. I have heard through informal channels they think November (around when the next class of 1st years starts) is the likely return time.

Honestly, if the variants take hold... I'll be seeing you all remote in 2022.

Yeah, now they're saying people who have already had Covid or been vaccinated may still get infected with this NY variant. I'll just WFH permanently, thanks.

Most of the vaccines apparently still protect against serious cases even with the known variants. You might get a mild case of COVID from a variant despite being vaccinated, but it won't kill you or send you to the hospital. Another even worse variant is of course possible, but vaccines should also continue to slow the spread. I doubt full time WFH will become permanent in biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t think people are rooting for the virus. Think a fair read of the thread is that folks would prefer to not be required to return to the office in the summer and instead wait until fall or next year to make sure everything is safe and also to reset after many have moved, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Feels like a lot of people on here are actively rooting for the variants to be terrible. If you hate big law this much, do something else lol. The vaccines seem to work against the variants, which is a fantastic thing. WFH is nice a couple days a week, but ridiculous to think permanent WFH is a good thing, especially for first year associates who have no idea what they're doing and really suffer for lack of day to day interaction with the folks in their class. We should be very happy that people seem to be getting vaccinated at a high rate, and that life can start to slowly become more normal.

Agree with the sentiment. Biglaw, non-NYC, lit, commute would be short anyway. I think people are also discounting the diffuse positive effects from moving and social interaction throughout the day (as a societal matter). WFH may be great in the short term or individual sense, but if pervasive and permanent, it seems anti-social. Maybe interacting with strangers or acquaintances is beneficial even if temporarily uncomfortable, awkward, or whatever. A world in which everyone stays in and misses out on the interactions with different people from different backgrounds (which generally breed tolerance, understanding, and perspective) seems like a worse one and only furthers isolation and retreat into one’s “in groups.” We’re social beings. So maybe some mixture or more flexibility is best. I’m not saying the typical office environment now is healthy, obviously most office white collar environments suck, (but they’re getting better, looking back over decades).