What the hell is going on Forum

[Anonymous User]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

[sublime]

Im still sitting here.. T10 median w/ 1 CB...

That's not really true.

[El Pollito]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

[jbagelboy]

Im still sitting here.. T10 median w/ 1 CB...

That's not really true.

gods work

[jbagelboy]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

you have a rather skewed view of events

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

You people should be advised that four CBs is not a bad outcome even for T6 median. I don't know who told you getting an offer was easy, because it isn't.

Also, LOL at those of you going "it's very feast or famine this year!" like you've just discovered penicillin.

[King Cayuga]

Yeah, the feast/famine thing isn't new. Last year at Cornell (which was a great year for us), it seemed like everyone I talked to and heard about got either 1-2 CBs or 6-7+. It didn't break down exclusively along GPA and journal lines either; there were some law review people with top 30% GPAs in the former group and some below median people on no journal in the latter group. Even so, most of the 1-2 CB people found something good, either from those CBs, from CBs the received from mass mailing, or from other means.

[UVA2018]

At UVA/Duke. It's a mess. Half the class doesn't have more than 1 callback right now. Top 10% has way less options than previous years. For example, a decent NY firm that gave out 30+ offers to last year's class has called back 5 people in totality.

+1

[Anonymous User]

But everything I am reading right now is just anecdotal. There is no data or concrete proof that classes are actually slimming down the classes.

People with 1-2 CBs may just be more vocal about the struggle.

[RaceJudicata]

At UVA/Duke. It's a mess. Half the class doesn't have more than 1 callback right now. Top 10% has way less options than previous years. For example, a decent NY firm that gave out 30+ offers to last year's class has called back 5 people in totality.

+1

Maybe the folks that accepted sucked, or a bunch of the 30 snubbed the offers. If either is the case, makes sense firm wouldn't come back for more.

[Anonymous User]

At UVA/Duke. It's a mess. Half the class doesn't have more than 1 callback right now. Top 10% has way less options than previous years. For example, a decent NY firm that gave out 30+ offers to last year's class has called back 5 people in totality.

+1

I feel like you gave away that this was UVA - given UVA's significantly higher enrollment it would only make sense for one of the two schools you listed to have received 30+ offers within a single class

[Anonymous User]

A number of firms I've had callbacks with have said they are aiming for a smaller class this year. But I think largely because they had more people accept last year than they expected

[Anonymous User]

At UVA/Duke. It's a mess. Half the class doesn't have more than 1 callback right now. Top 10% has way less options than previous years. For example, a decent NY firm that gave out 30+ offers to last year's class has called back 5 people in totality.

+1

I feel like you gave away that this was UVA - given UVA's significantly higher enrollment it would only make sense for one of the two schools you listed to have received 30+ offers within a single class

The second person gave it away with the UVA username lol.

[Anonymous User]

At UVA/Duke. It's a mess. Half the class doesn't have more than 1 callback right now. Top 10% has way less options than previous years. For example, a decent NY firm that gave out 30+ offers to last year's class has called back 5 people in totality.

+1

Interested in how these two could possibly know what half the class has given how narrow their viewpoint is.

My friends are all doing fine, and they're all over the curve.

[Anonymous User]

https://youtu.be/L2k4y1dyTwA

[bluthmodelhome]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

I think firms decided they didn't wanna play the lottery game that the t14s force on them. Especially since students with the highest GPAs at "regionals" are most likely students who could have been median at a lower T14 but decided to take the scholarship instead.

[Anonymous User]

A number of firms I've had callbacks with have said they are aiming for a smaller class this year. But I think largely because they had more people accept last year than they expected

Conversely, a number of firms I've interviewed with are looking to massively increase their class size.

[Anonymous User]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

FWIW my firm seems to be doing this. We are extending offers to a number of people who mass mailed from schools we haven't substantially hired from in recent memory.

[RaceJudicata]

A number of firms I've had callbacks with have said they are aiming for a smaller class this year. But I think largely because they had more people accept last year than they expected

Conversely, a number of firms I've interviewed with are looking to massively increase their class size.

This makes sense... isn't this all really a zero sum game? While the economy (and more importantly, legal market) is not great, there doesn't seem to be an overall decrease in the number of SA spots (no empirical data for this, but seems to be the prevailing trend). Therefore, there are X number of SA spots across the country, some firms had a higher yield last year, and are therefore reducing their class sizes. Other firms (due to the high yield at the aforementioned firms) likely had smaller classes/lower yield last year and are upping their class sizes.

Couple this with pre-oci hiring, this may explain some of the (potentially unfounded) reduction in call backs. My sense is that the number of actual SA spots will be about the same this year as last.

TLDR: Overall hiring will probably be the same this year as last, but its too early to see where things will shake out.

[Winter is Coming]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

I think firms decided they didn't wanna play the lottery game that the t14s force on them. Especially since students with the highest GPAs at "regionals" are most likely students who could have been median at a lower T14 but decided to take the scholarship instead.

1.) That's not how law school admissions and more accurately, grades, work.

2.) Firms did not conspire to not "play the lottery game" in one year especially because they are still coming to OCI at T14s.

This thread seems to be full of people who don't understand how OCI has always worked complaing that somehow this year is different. With the possibility of more pre-OCI offers nothing has changed. It's also been explained in detail by other posters how these offers don't cost anyone a job.

Even at schools with very impressive numbers, there are many people with 1 or 2 callbacks who get jobs. I'm not sure where this idea that everyone gets 10 callbacks came from.

None of this changes the fact that noone has struck out in mid-August. If you don't have an offer you should be mailing every firm in the country you would plausibly work for.

[bluthmodelhome]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

I think firms decided they didn't wanna play the lottery game that the t14s force on them. Especially since students with the highest GPAs at "regionals" are most likely students who could have been median at a lower T14 but decided to take the scholarship instead.

1.) That's not how law school admissions and more accurately, grades, work.

2.) Firms did not conspire to not "play the lottery game" in one year especially because they are still coming to OCI at T14s.

This thread seems to be full of people who don't understand how OCI has always worked complaing that somehow this year is different. With the possibility of more pre-OCI offers nothing has changed. It's also been explained in detail by other posters how these offers don't cost anyone a job.

Even at schools with very impressive numbers, there are many people with 1 or 2 callbacks who get jobs. I'm not sure where this idea that everyone gets 10 callbacks came from.

None of this changes the fact that noone has struck out in mid-August. If you don't have an offer you should be mailing every firm in the country you would plausibly work for.

Except that is exactly how law school admissions work. You may get into some T14s where your GPA/LSAT is "average" or below, so you're not worth luring there with scholarship money. Then you get into some lower-ranked schools where your GPA/LSAT is stellar, so you're worth a scholarship in order to boost the incoming class' numbers. I'm not saying that GPA/LSAT is an indicator of success on exams. But I am saying students that are the top of their class at a regional school are no less intelligent or worthy of hiring than the median T14 student, especially where the top student may have been admitted to that T14 as well but turned it down for the scholarship. Unless you believe that high ranking students at regional schools (in T1) would be bottom of their class in the T14.
To your other point, firms are holding pre-OCI mixers or open houses where students bring their resumes and transcripts. Nobody said they stopped coming to OCI at T14s entirely. But, this entire thread is T14 students whining about how pre-OCI has ruined their callbacks. It's completely logical to think that pre-OCI hiring, where firms can prescreen credentials of T14 AND non-T14 students, has contributed to that.

[Anonymous User]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

I think firms decided they didn't wanna play the lottery game that the t14s force on them. Especially since students with the highest GPAs at "regionals" are most likely students who could have been median at a lower T14 but decided to take the scholarship instead.

1.) That's not how law school admissions and more accurately, grades, work.

2.) Firms did not conspire to not "play the lottery game" in one year especially because they are still coming to OCI at T14s.

This thread seems to be full of people who don't understand how OCI has always worked complaing that somehow this year is different. With the possibility of more pre-OCI offers nothing has changed. It's also been explained in detail by other posters how these offers don't cost anyone a job.

Even at schools with very impressive numbers, there are many people with 1 or 2 callbacks who get jobs. I'm not sure where this idea that everyone gets 10 callbacks came from.

None of this changes the fact that noone has struck out in mid-August. If you don't have an offer you should be mailing every firm in the country you would plausibly work for.

Except that is exactly how law school admissions work. You may get into some T14s where your GPA/LSAT is "average" or below, so you're not worth luring there with scholarship money. Then you get into some lower-ranked schools where your GPA/LSAT is stellar, so you're worth a scholarship in order to boost the incoming class' numbers. I'm not saying that GPA/LSAT is an indicator of success on exams. But I am saying students that are the top of their class at a regional school are no less intelligent or worthy of hiring than the median T14 student, especially where the top student may have been admitted to that T14 as well but turned it down for the scholarship. Unless you believe that high ranking students at regional schools (in T1) would be bottom of their class in the T14.
To your other point, firms are holding pre-OCI mixers or open houses where students bring their resumes and transcripts. Nobody said they stopped coming to OCI at T14s entirely. But, this entire thread is T14 students whining about how pre-OCI has ruined their callbacks. It's completely logical to think that pre-OCI hiring, where firms can prescreen credentials of T14 AND non-T14 students, has contributed to that.

I was a TTT student who couldn't do well on the lsat; worked hard 1L and placed myself top 5% and got into MVPDB [only one of those] as a transfer... So, what im saying is that I couldnt have gotten into T14 from college

[bluthmodelhome]

This freak out is kinda comical cause of the poll but kinda odd cause of T14 struggles. At a T20 school where tons of people have 10+ CBs. Anyone in the top 1/3 has at least 5 that I know of. Could firms maybe have decided higher GPAs at regionals are better than median at a lower t14 and thus the struggle?

definitely not

I think firms decided they didn't wanna play the lottery game that the t14s force on them. Especially since students with the highest GPAs at "regionals" are most likely students who could have been median at a lower T14 but decided to take the scholarship instead.

1.) That's not how law school admissions and more accurately, grades, work.

2.) Firms did not conspire to not "play the lottery game" in one year especially because they are still coming to OCI at T14s.

This thread seems to be full of people who don't understand how OCI has always worked complaing that somehow this year is different. With the possibility of more pre-OCI offers nothing has changed. It's also been explained in detail by other posters how these offers don't cost anyone a job.

Even at schools with very impressive numbers, there are many people with 1 or 2 callbacks who get jobs. I'm not sure where this idea that everyone gets 10 callbacks came from.

None of this changes the fact that noone has struck out in mid-August. If you don't have an offer you should be mailing every firm in the country you would plausibly work for.

Except that is exactly how law school admissions work. You may get into some T14s where your GPA/LSAT is "average" or below, so you're not worth luring there with scholarship money. Then you get into some lower-ranked schools where your GPA/LSAT is stellar, so you're worth a scholarship in order to boost the incoming class' numbers. I'm not saying that GPA/LSAT is an indicator of success on exams. But I am saying students that are the top of their class at a regional school are no less intelligent or worthy of hiring than the median T14 student, especially where the top student may have been admitted to that T14 as well but turned it down for the scholarship. Unless you believe that high ranking students at regional schools (in T1) would be bottom of their class in the T14.
To your other point, firms are holding pre-OCI mixers or open houses where students bring their resumes and transcripts. Nobody said they stopped coming to OCI at T14s entirely. But, this entire thread is T14 students whining about how pre-OCI has ruined their callbacks. It's completely logical to think that pre-OCI hiring, where firms can prescreen credentials of T14 AND non-T14 students, has contributed to that.

I was a TTT student who couldn't do well on the lsat; worked hard 1L and placed myself top 5% and got into MVPDB [only one of those] as a transfer... So, what im saying is that I couldnt have gotten into T14 from college

So I guess I wasn't thinking TTT regionals. I was thinking T1 regionals where the top firms do come to OCI and they do preselect. Not that it's always the case that T1 students were also admitted to T14. Just have anecdotal knowledge that it happens.

[Winter is Coming]

This whole thread is about 6 people complaining about about not having an abundance of callbacks and people wildly speculating about massive structural changes to the hiring process.

Top of the class at a strong regional is a great spot to be. This will not change the fact that if you go to a large, NYC firm there may be 1-2 Fordham people there and 9 from UVA and 15 from NYU.

[daedalus2309]

This whole thread is about 6 people complaining about about not having an abundance of callbacks and people wildly speculating about massive structural changes to the hiring process.